Whats with veteran submitters breaking the rules
 

[rant]
|angry|
Ive seen too much of it lately. I cannot believe that veteran or at least "non rookie" submitters are going to the lengths they are to submit ..frankly for lack of a better word - SHIT! I really thought that the regulars here had a bit more professional respect for each other to stoop to auto submits, with excessive blind link reciprocals, ghosted recips tables and just trying to get by with it based on friendship/aquaintance, etc. The bullshit never seems to end with rogue submitters, the last thing I want to deal with is regulars breaking the rules WTF |banghead|

[/rant]

I've been noticing the same thing lately, and it pisses me off. If youre old in the bussiness you're suppose to know the rules better than anyone right?

What is a "ghosted recip table"?

Beats the hell out of me...LOL...

If Im breaking any rules I can assure you it's stupidity rather than intentionally doing anything wrong..:D

Heres a a rant for you

Why are LL owners becoming more and more unreasonable? Why are they becoming less flexible and putting them selves up on peddlestools and forming unofficial clangs of people who then set about doing all they can to destroy other peoples names.....


Here you should read your own rules....

General Rules for all submissions:
Nothing illegal - no Zoo, CP, Rape,
No Pop-Ups, Consoles, Pop-Unders
No Banner Farms
No back button manipulation. I must be able to click back to Pic Stable
No Free Hosts
Site must be in English
Please capitalize only the first letter of Each Word In The Title
Only capitalize the first word of the description.
A recip to Pic Stable is required. Not by itself. Please use one below or customize it to your site. Be sure to use "free porn megasite" as the title text and Pic Stable as the anchor text.
PIC STABLE
Free Daily Pics & Movies
Free Porn Megasite

PIC STABLE
Free Daily Pics & Movies
Free Porn Megasite

PIC STABLE Free Daily Pics & Movies Free Porn Megasite

PIC STABLE Free Daily Pics & Movies Free Porn Megasite

You must have permission or copyright to use the material within your link
Picture Sites : Index | Main | 2 Galleries | 24 Pics - 12 per gallery
Video Sites : Index | Main | 2 Galleries | 6 videos - 120 seconds total
Blog Sites : Must be on your own domain. Please don't submit free hosted blogs/splogs and a one line recip link is acceptable. Please use Pic Stable Megasite as the anchor text
No Blind or Misleading Links - Have a clear Enter link
No Java Scripts or any type of redirects
Quality will win out over quantity
Site must be submitted in the correct category
I have the right to change the description to fit the link area and choose an appropriate category. That is why I ask for 2 choices.
1 submission per day

You will see from my point of view I have not breached any of them yet am banned for an unwritten rule that I cant see anywhere on your submit page.

Quite possibly you need to amend your T&C's of submission - have you thought about that?

You may need to read through the other thread titled Jester Read - Stupidity or human error is not acepted, this is a crusade hes on.


I been a registered user here 4 years longer Jester - I am not saying that accounts for much in our personal battle though.....

Like I say maybe the newbie LL owners should refine their rules - I did not break one of Jesters yet he banned me, go figure!

I do hope you guys work something out. Jester has always been very helpful to me, and my exchanges with you have always been pleasant.

As to rules, my impression is that they have become less stringent over the last 2 years. I see this as a good thing, but something that would be helpful is if ll owners would update their rules. Many list have rules which they don't enforce, or no longer apply.

We did work it out - I appologised corrected the problem - he banned me :)

Now he has started this thread.......

Seriously it is laughable, then I got the new guy who taken over Clicks 4 Sex banning me too for a some nonsense reason that was not within my control and again can be proved.

This is the issue with the business as a whole, and this is a perfect example as to what happens when someone takes over a perfectly good web site and tries to be all wobnderful.

Clicks4Sex new owner made a post here on GG&J saying and I quote -

"I will be letting things get through, though tightening them up over time" - what utter bull

I think you should really stop |deadhorse because you so are |goodnight getting in a deeper hole.

Why? - thats is not a fair call at all Mary Lou not a fair call at all....

Firstly I NY Jester pointed out an issue I dealt with it, I did not slate rant nor complain about his list. I took on board what he said and action ed them.

We seemed to agree to disagree, no major problem.

I come back and see the thread and see others are pilling in and judging me on a simple mistake that I have resolved.

Mr Mary Lou you should know me a bit better then these guys, I thought you would understand that it is possible to make mistakes and it is not the mistakes it is how you deal with them that counts.

I did leave this alone and moved on though other members of the forum have continued the debate and are sharing my details and submission name and banning me, as I say its laughable.

I am very upset that some people here who have know me a long time and infact some I have met in person and shared beers with have not said something to support me but I guess I am learing something else about the characters here.

I acept you think I flogging a dead horse though I also have to stand up for myself too, I hope you and others can understand that |huh

Awe shit. I just got your rejection e-mail. Sorry bout that one NY Jester. I'll clean em up on the next ones ;)

(quoting MML because I agree)
To SmithMedia-
I've got no skin in this game at all, so here is the complete unbiased third party opinion:

It is Jester's site, it is Jester's traffic, it is Jester's rules. Same with the other LL owners. If you don't like their game then don't play. If you build your own traffic, then you can do with it as you please. As long as you are wanting their traffic then you must jump through their hoops ... even if the rules change, even if there are "unwritten" rules.

That said, I have not built or submitted a FS or TGP gallery since 2006, so this is as unbiased as you will get.

I agree with what you are saying - I totally agree with it being Jesters right to call the shots on his list. Jester made his call and I have to acept that though I am very unhappy with impact its had on me with other sites as this was all caused by a simple a mistake.

What the hell is a peddlestool?

you were the one who started that particular thread, not Jester. If you had handled the situation privately via email or PM you wouldn't have the problems with the other sites.

Chalk it up to unintended consequences, learn and move on.

I did try conducting over email though did not manage to make contact I came here as this was sugested as the second form of contact :)

What ever whys and ifs this has been resolved, but it still makes for a debate and maybe others will learn from my mistakes. :)

a dirty great typo ;)

'peddastool' |lol|

I was critical of your submissions because of your phony recip tables, Sure

But that is not why you were banned from Click 4Sex Fun

You were banned after the 3rd time in two weeks that you submitted sites with intentionally hidden enter links (smallest font on the page by far), and Enter link font color closely matching the background of the page (The only place on the page where there font color was used was the enter links, and the only place on the page where font size 7 was used...so yes intentional)

Add to that multiple redirects to sex.gb.net (again on several submittals...once may be broken links...over and over is cheating)

That is why you were banned with me

you really have to look at both sides of it

the reviewer is sitting there looking at site after site and not one follows the rules, He feels his time is being wasted, gets annoyed and it sours his attitude towards submitters

sometimes they get very heavy handed because of that attitude


I always seen submiters as a valuable resource .. A partner.. just as important as my sponsors

but on the other hand I have been very lucky to have a lot of good people submitting to me

I do not make it hard to get into or navigate free sites mate, see what you are decribing to me there is decline on design issues not an amtept to cheat.

Most LL will return a site and say 'Broken Images' fix and resubmit. Its not cheating they are once again heavy words.

Let me explain cheating to you - cheating is when some half wit makes a bunch of sites then after they are listed changes the content or more so changes the the roote url to redirect to lets say a PPC programme.

I sit here quite possibly like you making page after page after page, some will mess up, some I will screw up on but never would I consider submiting a site with a view to nicking the odd click.

Thing is fella the likes of Linkster were good for submitters like me, they were good because they returned the submission and explained what was wrong.

As I am sure you will agree it is not always possible to see the wood for the trees. Again I acept your decision its your LL I would of course like to amend the situation and sort things out but that is out of my hands.

|thumb

I would put his Domain in whois and give em a call on the phone ....

Smith's media, this thread was not a personal attack on you. It was a general rant in the direction of ALL non newbie's breaking the rules. Im not putting myself on a higher plain in any way shape or form. But I thank you for making it personal between us. Im about sick and tired of your personal attacks , so really go scratch your ass man. You are just proving my feeling right that you're not worth listing in the first place.

Luscious a ghosted recip table is using fake recips on a free site coming off as you've submitted to the link lists that appear within the recip table. When it reality you submitted an entirely different site to the others. It was something that Smiths Media got caught doing and now he's hell bent on bad mouthing me.

he he - i think I am pissing in the wind mate :)

So you think I should allow you to continue to submit to me free sites with fake recip tables on it? Give me a break. Unwritten rule yes..ITS COMMON FUCKING SENSE!

its far from personal - and I acept this is not a thread about me and me only.

I just scratched my ass but now my finger smells so wont be doing that again.

Jester on a closing note, I took on board what you said and made changes, for that I am actually very greatful to you. :)

No I most certainly do not, I would not do that myself. The error you highlighted was an oversight pure and simple on my part mate nothing more.

Smiths this was never a personal issue. Honestly. You made the thread just an hour after you sent your email. I hadn't even seen the reply to that point. This couldve been settled, with a quick..damn, sorry I fucked up...Like I said Im not a fly by night guy, nor am I a prick. Quite honestly, I had always thought for the most part your sites were done well. I had sent a few responses back in regards to using blind reciprocal links within your recip tables but ALWAYS gave you the benefit of the doubt but I was still seeing the same thing half the time. It kind of got me searching and thats when I came across the fake recips.

All I ask is for an honest true submission and within the rules (even bent to some small extent without breaking) But using a fake recip table is just further than I can go. Being a fairly new link list, I don't expect those that don't know me to submit me with the top sites, Im grateful when they do, as I am friends with many of them, but I do ask that I get the respect of at least having true recips, because not for nothing, Im giving away my traffic, no matter the size, I should at least have the opportunity to receive a little back. As the ole addage states - one hand washes the other.

I can attest to the number of shit site submissions going up - my blacklist is growing by the day it seems - and a lot of it is blatant rule violations - Enter links at the top of the page, 10+ outgoing links per page, etc.

Ok heres my view from a submission point of view;

I would much rather submit to a 'group' of LL that list and update, as a submiter it is not always an easy thing to do and my only means I have to decide how to group sites are

1 - an email to confirm the listing = 1*
2 - Physical traffic = 2*
3 - No email or traffic = 0*

Then within the 1 & 2* I boost them based on partner accounts and well known lists.

If I could half the size of my submission list and know (assuming sites are built right) and all were listed this appeals more to me.

As a submitter I really rely on the feedback from the LL declined emails are kept and I go through them and try my best to amend the issues, if I cant then I delete the LL from my list, for example some may mail me and expect to be listed with the top top LL - er sorry this cant be done or they will get the hump.

What you have said about the recip tables was to me really valid feedback.

Thanks for the compliments too on the free sites I make, I have found a number of issues with developing them browser support is not easy to overcome, my stlyes being corrupted - I think this is what Meat got through.

This is a very tough job and often a very isolated one which is why feedback to me is paramount :)

A bug with some submission is the inclusion of a cheaky link in the footer and or Webmaster links & links to about 5 anti porn sites / filter sites.

Go to whois...call the number try getting their spouse on the phone a lot of times they can be more resonable...

I build and submit too. So that's understood.

As for the #'s above.. I only send out rejection emails, or emails addressing certain small things that hopefully will be worked on for future submits. Depending on the categories a submission can take anywhere between 5 and 10 days to be listed.

Just as submitters are always working to better their sites, so are owners. We constantly tweak and try new ways and techniques. Some work some don't.

bluebrit was nice enough today to email me with a 404 link booboo I had when I did a copy/paste and messed it up. So after I smacked myself in the head, I fixed the link and swore to be more careful in the future. I do create these sites by hand but I'm human sometimes I mess up. :P

something simple catches me out even still from time to time as I can not pick it up in testing

thats it '.JPG' '.jpg' when I test it all looks fine even when published it works in most browsers though it fails in others. It can drive you mad trying to figure it out I can tell you

I can be as guilty as any one here. I do make my mistakes but they are never ever intentional. I never have and never will set out to deceive anyone. When my fellow webmasters and LL owners catch a mistake, I am always grateful and work to correct it immediately. I also work a full time job outside my adult realm, so I am not always coding pages with a clear mind. I now finish a site one day, review and submit to the first table the 2nd, and everyone else the 3rd day just to be safe.

I do use placeholder recips when I am first building a site to aid in the design. Do I upload them and not submit? Sometimes. It's usually the need for 40 hours in a 24 hour day. Is it intentional? Never. I still get a thrill over being listed, so the sites I list on my free sites DO exist, and are real. Just ask me if you doubt.

Is some of it just honest brain farts? or is it the same mistake over and over again? I may be guilty of blind links at times because I am so busy trying to write better sales text that I don't always remember to regurgitate the paysite name. Nudge me gently, and I will fix.. I promise. I usually only need one nudge, and not the same one over and over. And I do highly respect constructive criticism.

And SmithsMedia, the work and lurk is so helpful at finding those.

Pagan, to be honest this thread wasn't about mistakes and overlooks. It was more a trend that I see, as Im sure many others do as well, of those being in the industry long enough to know the rules..bend those rules just far enough and push the envelope. It wasn't singling any one particular person out, but more of a blanket statement to the continued state of Adult. Tough times, call for desperate measures in some cases. That "little extra" can sometimes go a long way, when it's all added up together.

What I think needs to be done more is a better "policing" of things, to ensure that our industry isn't run into the ground and that we will all continue to have a piece of the pie. We need to work together as a group of knowledgeable individuals and make it a community once again. Although its a very personal, 1 on 1 type of business at times, we need to work together in many ways to make sure that tomorrow is a better day.

I'm going to take a step back here.

Right at the time of Jester and nochex issues over the fake recip tables (which I really hate, really put my recips with any others where there is at least a chance of being listed I can accept...but putting me with fake recips pisses me off) I can understand those errors might be due to auto submit software, but if you use AS software at least check what it is doing before submitting.

During this time period I was already getting pissed at auto submitters filling in submits completely wrong with no human intervention or oversight, and the horrible structure of the sites the AS software generates (keyword-1, same keyword-2, same keyword-3, same keyword-ad infinitum/folder1, folder2, folder3, etc/folder1, folder2, etc and thus getting links submitted to megaporn as trannyorgy-1/1/2/ and the same site to sexy smut as trannyorgy-2/1/1, etc
Not to mention getting sites submited with two of my recips on them but diff urls with my site name in them such as trannyorgy-c4fun/2/1 and trannyorgy-mpl/1/2

So the auto submitting by regulars is pissing me off

But I did not ban nochex for that...but was perhaps quick to pull the trigger after getting several sites over a few days from nochex with hidden enter links and redirects...AND sending rejection emails with those reasons and 2 days later getting the same issues again from him.
Perhaps he never saw the emails from meatpounder at meatpounder.com due to spam filters or bad email address in his submitals, but they were sent and as far as I knew ignored.

So I banned him and when he tried to submit again the banned message caught his attention

I am pretty liberal in what I will accept, and I believe in second, third or more chances (that's why I turned on notification of being banned at all three link lists...so submitters would know they were banned and would have a chance to contact me and work it out...heck several banned by lady designer and murray have been taken off the ban lists by me after contacting me)

I will remove nochex off the ban list and allow you to submit again (if you want), but first put my email addy on your safe list in case I reject a site (or use a valid one if that happens to be the case), and second if I reject your site for some reason ( I say the reason in my email) do not submit a site 2 days later with the same problem

see.. look at this everyone is making up... Cmon.. Group hug

BTW HowlingWulf

Did your 404 redirect to ANOTHER DOMAIN?

Cheers - I will get your sites added again and sorted out, if tyou see anyting you do not like just raise it with me I will fix it up, the LL in your sig are these the only ones?

|thumb