If You Were Inventing the Link List Today...
 

So, if you were creating the link list today, as if it hadn't already been around since Greenie invented the Internet, what would you do? What sort of features would it have? What would it look like?

Replying "I wouldn't bother" is not acceptable. |kissass|

well, I figure you gotta break it up into 'backend' and 'frontend' - with frontend being anything that can be seen by surfers, backend being all link &content management, submission, approval, security, testing, etc.

and that's a fucking interesting question...

well, google hates competition and hates the very idea of linklists - so it has to be made to look like it's NOT a linklist, structurally. That means massively greater complexity.

So at minimum you need something like a script that contains, as a plugin, wordpress. The linklist and blog must fuck and give birth to the b-ll-og.

And, the old model of reciprocal linking must be changed at it's structural root - you have to automate a way to constanly be changing recips.

Well linklists are pretty much a directory IMO.

since you gather the "best links there are in the web"....

Maybe the reciprocal links should be made diferent, maybe not the old main page to main page, but maybe main page to enter free site page and then the main page of the free site to the linklist...

Also in terms of back end the more automated the better...
Who need to figure out what is best for u, since now a days there exists a ton of scripts that do a tons of stuff...

Today everyone is a webmaster, since you can set a blog in 5 minutes.

As a part of Google hatting linklists... well I will say that my linklist is my best ranked site...

I'd make a site for today's surfers and not worry about recip links.... Like a tube site!

I'd make it look like my last link list, Sunshine Lesbians

I would definitely add FACEBOOK/TWITTER/OPEN ID LOGIN buttons for one fast click login, ( people tend to be very lazy in these days ) and like delicious or stumbleupon allow for bookmarking unlimited amount of sites for each user, sort of a private bookmarks with option for public display. Like LowryBigwood suggested recip link for bookmarks would be a big NO NO, also you need to disable unique links URL and somehow incorporate counter for how many users already bookmarked the same link.
Allowing submitters/users to populate submitted links to other sites in network would be a nice addition with one simple setting.
Having ability to post to incorporated blog and open forum with one login is another nice addition, but starter of this topic know this already ;)
Things like auto tagging, rewards for comments and ratings, auto newsletter for registered users, extracting meta data from submitted links, everything that will make submitter / book-marker adding new link fast and painless.
Reciprocal links could be awarded with higher positions on your pages and / or additional listing on other sites.
Some of the stuff I already implemented into my sites, on some I'm still working.
Link lists are not dead, like UW stated in his latest posts, they just need little re-invention.

2c

Just my opinions here. I think Lowry is on-target.

The links you really want are those you get because the surfer adds your link somewhere. The old 1-to-1 reciprocal linking, or almost any detectable pattern of linking, is a waste of time and can do more harm that good. But wasting time is bad enough.

As far as I'm concerned the only two ways a Link List can be valuable in today's Internet are either to: 1). return to it's roots and just be a clean and simple list of great porn, dropping all of the flashy ads and graphics to become a very simple list of links; or 2). become something brand new, which is not what I'd do so I'll leave that for others to discuss.

I'm thinking a very simple Link List, almost all text, designed *only* for the surfer's benefit. Make the links valuable to the surfer so they'll bookmark, return, share. Later, if the traffic warrants it, you monetize it somehow. But from day one you start building your mailing/newsletter list.

May turn out that the list is the reason to do it.

Just my rambling thoughts. © 2012

:D

That's already been done. It's called The Hun. :D

I'd make a "link list" where people could join as a community and make it so they can post links to their favorite pics, videos and so on. A Social club so to speak.

That's easy, just include a fair amount of your own links within the mix. I've been making a comfortable living doing just exactly that for some time now, but with a TGP instead of a Link List.

I have never seen a person put up a link to a tube site or a tube site page. Do you folks see a lot of that kind of thing? care to show examples?

I'm unconvinced that tube supremacy is caused by people posting links to tube sites, or any natural linking. Is that what you folks think causes it?

Embeds maybe. I've seen some blogs using embeds.

Definitely elements of that - but with broader footprint and more content depth.

The new content scroll on the index, definitely.

It's the embedded clips that are responsible for the high number of one-way back links to the large tube sites.

I was thinking along these lines |bananna||bananna|

The math doesn't seem to fit - high numbers? Maybe.

It's not like everywhere I go I see blogs/splogs with embedded tube clips. I see a few, and they are less common all the time. Embeded sponsor clips are just as easy to use, and make more sense for the blog owner.

I was told the big tubes buy links on a mass scale, and maintain link-buying programs - dunno if it's true.

The most common explantion for tube domination I hear is that they fulfill google algrorithm specs for visitor stickiness and visit times, and direct access to content, rather than links to content, which google devalues. That and rumors of link buying.

I personally can't say I see much natural one-way linking, aside from teh embeds, and I don't see that many embeds. Maybe I'm not looking at the right places.

Yes, high numbers of embeds. Remember, we're talking about "illegal" tubes for the most part, with long clips. Those are what are getting embedded.

How many pseudo tube sites are out there that are nothing more than scraped embedded clips from other tubes? I can think of several off the top of my head, a few of which used to be large TGPs.

I would build a community blog where people could make blog entries to your site that describes a site, movie clips or pic set that they have. Could even be a blog entry about their favorite phone sex service, sex toy, etc. Linking could be one to one or link from the root of the domain that actually has some juice. This is assuming the blog submitters know a little seo and how to build internal pr. Not that pr has as much weight as it used to but it might still help a little.

Then I would start my own adult social site (twitteresque) and add the "like" button feature. Do you need more details or can you follow it from there? :D

(I see Ramster has stolen part of my idea already) |jester|

When you boil it all down it always comes back to the same thing, having site content that people will want to share with others and will come back tomorrow to see what's new.

lol, which is roughly equivalent to saying forget it.

we shall see, we shall see.

lets see, what would you need to accomplish that, assuming real time and realistic expense levels.

You would need a tube script, a blog script with multiblog support, a bbs script, some staff of personalities to populate teh bbs and blogs and give visitors a reason to stick and use the script functions. And a TGP script, and last and arguably least, a linklist script. And a master CMS platform to hold and support all the sub-scripts.

Then, sources of exclusive content, a model of content submission by users, and the standard assmblage of non-exclusive content. In effect, you are building a big elaborate old-fashioned paysite.

The only really hard part is the staff of personalities, the rest is just money and time, a bit pricey, but doable.

It's the people that make a social site model work, and the most important people are the first adopters and initial personalities. So, it can't be just any staff, it has to be a collection of real characters.

The model of content submission by users would be a critical part - somebody would have to think that out and you might have to get scripts written to backend it.

Let's see, what else might be critical? What else could you do that would make the whole thing explode?

Then there is the other strategic question - if your whole business model is to give away more and more content to get traffic - the general trend - then monetizing with content pretty much guarantees a pattern of diminishing returns.

So, you are still stuck in a monetizing dead end.

So, the real question is, how should/would/could a 'next big thing' model make money?

At least, you'd want to have your own content production paysite system to service your next big thing site - and it could also provid e the exclusive content you need to get visitors to stick.

Another path to consider - what if everyone agreed to make freesites way artier and funnier and more complex and crazy and shit?

then linklists become boutique suppliers of porn, rather than lowrent suppliers - attract a different class of sticky customers.

basically, a cultural change.

I do pretty well at getting people to come back day after day. The sharing part, not so well, but I haven't really put much time, thought or effort into that either.

A fully tricked out drupal installation, joomla also, but drupal is arguably more stable, would accomplish a lot of those things I mention.

Thing is, if this would work, presumably some one among us would be trying it. (Perhaps they are and we aren't holding it up as a model? Maybe marc or kit or possibly tommy is trying it on the qt?)
So presumably there is some principle not yet understood?

Porn bbs's work (for sticky) because they allow surfers to earn the equivalent of reputation points with stolen content.

Tubes work because of stolen content, or the appearance of stolen content when purchased or sponsor-provided content is involved.

Stolen content, the thrill of stealing in a heavily regimented and repressive social strata, might be the missing principle.

So - make them feel like they are getting away with stealing = sticky?

So, somewhere between amazingly simple and awesomely complex would be the goal.

In my own fragile opinion, pc and Ramster are on to something with social media/community being a big part of it.

I'll try to add more later, but I'm currently working on my first cup of coffee.

Hum...
I'm going to try to make a script to test an idea I just had... :)

Will show the final result when I'm done.. (hope it will be fast to do it)

I regret that I've not done some strictly NICHED linklists about 5 and more years ago. The ideal concept for me would be that Greenie's new LL, I'd accept freesites, galleries, or eventually tube posts. But I'm not sure if it is a good vote to start such project in these days :(

I like the whole idea of social media incorporated into the link lists. A while ago I thought it would be nice to having something like Elgg and alter it around to make it work for adult. My idea was just something where consumers and submitters could both create accounts and users can like their favorite submitters and posts. Kind of like an adult FB, that's the route that's been mentioned that I can see working the best today.

I'm sure if Facebook was a little more adult content friendly everyone would be promoting the shit out of their Facebook Pages. Although I believe it was said before on here in another thread that who would want to publicly friend a porn site on FB. So it seems like a social media related site would be the way to go IMO.

Yes, that sounds interesting. Facebook has a lot of sub-groups where people share common interest.

I would think conversions would be better where people had some sense of community. Tubes get lots of SE traffic, but how profitable are they? Something where you didnt need 10000 hits to make one sale seems a better goal to me.

Here are some examples of mainstream social networking sites made with Joomla:

http://community.joomla.org/showcase...etworking.html

I love the input everyone is contributing. Seeing lots of cool ideas and things to consider.

I'd have no problem not requiring reciprocal links. Hell, I have two lists right now that don't require recips. ( http://www.whoringwives.com and http://www.filthyearl.com ) Content should always be the focus. As several of you have stated, you want/need to build a site that gains links naturally, not forcefully. You have to create the type of pages that people find and want to share. That's where the magic is.

I love pc's idea of using FB applications in order to handle login and commenting. That's a lot easier than scripting your own system that will work across different areas of a site. Plus, most people are probably already logged in to FB while surfing, so they could comment on something without needing to sign up to your own site. And allowing people the ability to comment on pages gives them the feelings of community and ownership. That's a site they'll come back to.

Now, the problem is, what is it that this hybrid monster would publish? Blog posts with embedded images and streaming videos? Galleries? Etcetera? Plus, if you want your "members" to feel like they're part of the site, what can they contribute other than pics of their girlfriends? Chances are, they're going to be post images they took from someone else's site.

Keep the input and feedback coming. By the way, I have no actual intention of creating a project like this in the immediate future. I might tweak PerveSpace a bit to add some of these functions, but I'm not launching anything huge anytime soon.

I think you guys are crazy thinking people want to join porn communities.

"Bill is jacking off to the new teen girl from XYZ sponsor right now - it's gonna be a better spurt than yesterday's load for that other girl from ABC sponsor"

You are misunderstanding the problem.

I have a little image host. That's where I learned that these communities already exist. Ugly women post photos of themselves. Men print one of their photos, ejaculate on it, take a picture of the mess and repost it.

Plus, plenty of adult sites, TGPs and a few link lists, already have their own message boards where surfers discuss porn. The adult industry is, once again, trailing behind when it comes to community and social media.

And my argument is that porn surfers don't want to form porn communities. The ones that do form are like what you just describe - small and fetishistic - and I leave it to you to figure out how to monetize the one you described.

We've all looked at the "bbs's" in porn sites - they are lame as fuck. Why? Because porn surfers are not looking for the type of community experience provided by places like facebook.

Wishing you could sell porn on a facebook platform won't make a porn-based social network form.

That's why I mentioned the thrill of stealing thing - porn works on a more primal private level than facebook and linked in - we have to look for primal hooks. Primates instinctively love to steal, and to get credit for stealing - and I was suggesting that was part of what makes porn bbs's work, the thrill of stealing.

Now, lets look at your last argument - do you think the porn businesses are 'lagging behind' social networking? You really figure we are all kinda standing there with one thumb in our ass and one in out mouth saying "well I just can't figure out this social stuff".

I don't think it's because we ae too stupid to use social networking scripts to sell porn. I think everybody has been trying it all along, with limited success.

because people don't really, in general, want to jerk off in public.

Internal communities add a stickiness factor, but they don't really accomplish the sharing aspect, or at least not the goal of the sharing aspect I was talking about. By sharing I really meant posting organic back links on other forums/sites/social media/etc which gets you additional traffic while also enhancing your SEO rank.

Bill has a valid point, getting visitors of a porn site to share links to the site publicly is a tall order.

You folks do understand what I am suggesting here, right?

Actually, yes. That doesn't make me correct, but that is my standing belief, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

But...I certainly wouldn't ever suggest attempting to create an FB clone for porn. That isn't at all what I was saying or intending to say. I have a message board with a bunch of members. People join everyday, then do nothing. They never post, they never even edit their profile. I know they aren't big on publishing much detail. The lazy fuckers wont' even select their favorite niche from a dropdown box. I have no idea why they even join, but they do.

What I was saying was to use the apps FB makes available to all developers. The same ones that allow you to comment on news articles at various mainstream sites. It's the commentator's choice whether or not those comments get posted to their FB page. So, theoretically, you could safely allow strangers to post comments without making them register with your site, and not have the big worry about comment spam.

In my limited experience, the links I get to my handful of sites from other sites must be due to Google Images. Members of another site with a message board, usually FreeOnes, create a thread discussing a model. They scour the Net looking for more images of her, find her at my site and link to the page(s) she's on. It doesn't happen often, but it's great to see other sites allowing surfers to link rather freely to other sites. I'd love to see more it.

Can anyone else hear Greenie screaming in their head, "YOU AREN'T TALKING ABOUT A LINK LIST!" :)

But they do want porn that is free of viruses, has very little spam, is easy to navigate, has fresh content, quality, variety...and these are things a community style environment could offer. When you type something into Google, you get a lot of shit...a community network could cull things down and save a surfer a lot of time, plus give them a little confidence that their computer will not be infected.

I know a lot of people who will not surf porn because it's just too much of a pain in the ass. There's probably an untapped market of horny people who might enjoy porn, but don't want to deal with all the bullshit involved in web surfing for it.

It's not about jerking off in public (although that sounds like an interesting niche :) ), it's more about security, quality, and convenience.