Say it ain"t so...Clemens and Sheffield Named in Steroid Report

[Jim]

"Dozens of current and former major league baseball players, including Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens, Yankee teammate Andy Pettitte, sluggers Mo Vaughn and Gary Sheffield and reliever Eric Gagne, are named as being linked to steroid use in the report."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/13/ste...ort/index.html

[HC-Majick]

Gary Sheffield's name has been mentioned several different times, so that wasn't a big surprise....Now Andy Pettite, on the other hand...I would have never thought he would be named....

[NY Jester]

Sheff, has always been implicated. And if you look @ the Rocket, its no surprise, as he bulked up just as much as Bonds has over the years. The one that surprised me was Pettitte.

ESPN.com has the entire report

[ScreaM]

I kind of saw this coming.

[docholly]

Lenny Dykstra? No surprise with that temper..
John Rocker? No Surprise ditto on stupid mouth and temper
Dave Justice paid by frigging check. Just stupid.
But Roger Clemmons?? it's not as if he was expected to HIT the dayam ball.. we all know pitchers can't hit...

Well now maybe they'll let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame.

[NY Jester]

Steroids is not meant to help you hit.. one of the hardest things to do..hit a round object with a round bat coming at you 90 mph + - steroids and HGH (human growth hormone) is used for strength and conditioning purposes. Sometimes to build muscle, sometimes for all around strength. But homeruns are hit via bat speed. McGwire hit 49 homeruns his rookie season and he was a skinny twink. Bonds had a HOF career with over 300 HR's "before" he is accused of taking steroids and he too was a skinny guy. These guys have always been prolific hitters, steroids didnt help them - if anything, larger muscles slows down the bat - as for pitchers, the HGH is taken by many to help heal faster, to build the msucels back quicker, and in the long run bigger & thicker. Its no surprise, pitchers like Gagne are on it, he has had arm trouble for years. If they delved deeper theyd find that there would be more pitchers using HGH than hitters. As far as Im concerned, the Mitchell report is just a post-it note to the league and to make public the epidemic that is steroid use in MLB (and other sports) and the only way to make any kind of impact was to expose the big names that were included. If it gets a law passed that puts the dealers away or gives stiffer penalities (jail time) to those that possess it..then it did its job. If its just another rag paper that players, coaches, trainers and the like scoff at then, well, thats just a waste of 60 million and a sad end to many great players careers. Just My Opinion.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by NY Jester

if anything, larger muscles slows down the bat

Just assuming that is true, how would you explain Bonds hitting more homeruns after he got larger muscles?

[NY Jester]

Im not saying scientifically, but with larger muscles comes more "cumbersome" swings. Ask anyone who has packed on some pounds since high school and tries to swing a golf club around the mid section..lol..If you see Bonds from a few years ago (pre 2000) he had a long outstretched swing - mid plate and away. Now, today (and for about 5 years) his swing is very compact...more middle of the plate in..he cant reach those outside pitches too well. His bat speed has not been diminished because he has changed his swing, location of pitches he prefers and what zone the bat travels through. His swing is closer therefore he hasnt lost speed, but he can no longer reach out and get those pitches he once was able to, becasue he cannot generate the speed through the outside zones - if you watch him when he strikes out its usually on a pitch down and away, and thats because he's "behind" on it.

[Jim]

Jester, isn't the only controversy about Bonds and HGH is if he knew he was getting it or not?

[NY Jester]

Indeed, I dont deny at all that he most likely has taken it. Im just saying if you look at his stats, the only "red flag" was his 73 homerun season. All of his other stats remained the same for the most part (other than BB"s) He always hit 30-40 HR's (avg)

Heres his full stat sheet - Bonds Stats - nothing really sticks out other than the 73 season.

My other point on the Mitchell report is that out of 4000+ players to have graced the stage from the mid 80's until now, it only focuses on 80? Thats like saying out of all the mob guys in NYC only 80 are bookies LOL - but they are being made into poster boys for "dont do it"

[Jim]

Oh, I am taking the Mitchell Report with a big grain of salt. I would have expected to see my Red Sox players mentioned. But since he is on the Board of Directors, it makes sense that there wasn't.

[Useless]

I don't "do" sports, so this is purely the opinion of an uninformed bystander, BUT if you one makes their living performing a physical act, even as boring as baseball, what's wrong with them improving their performance with a few pills and/or injections? No one seems to mind pornstars using Viagra.

If fans want/expect superior performance, they really don't get to choose how that performance is produced. I'm not a fan of drug use, but if someone offered me a multi-million dollar contract for being stronger and faster, I'd be popping more pills than my grandmother.

I think the issue with baseball players is due to that whole greatest American Past Time thing. People want innocence. Well, the innocence went away when Jackie O walked in on Lyndon Johnson fucking JFK's head wound.

[NY Jester]

Lyndon Johnson fucking JFK's head wound.

And I thought all these years he was just finger-banging it.

Jim, in regard to the Sox players, that was brought up on ESPN this AM - the only one mentioned was Mo Vaugn (the way back machine)

[Jim]

Originally Posted by NY Jester

Jim, in regard to the Sox players, that was brought up on ESPN this AM - the only one mentioned was Mo Vaugn (the way back machine)

That alone puts a huge stink on this report. Someone not associated with baseball at all would have been a much better choice.

On a different note..the Hall of Fame is about 30 mins from me. They invited anyone and everyone to come in yesterday for a lunch and to watch the report on TV. They were then going to have questions and answers. Nobody showed up...

[NY Jester]

HAHA thats funny (the no one showing up part)

yeah should have been unbiased for sure.

[Jim]

In all fairness, it did snow a lot in Cooperstown. But usually when the HOF invites the public to anything, people come from all over.

[NY Jester]

Yeah Ive been up there for a fewthings, usually the Hall of Fame game and after inductions a few times