GG

[binxgook]

Hey Greenie, Just wondering about this one. Submitted it yesterday.
http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamate...on/1/index.htm

[RawAlex]

It's a doorway?

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamate...on/1/index.htm

click enter goes to:

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamate...ation/main.htm

And that folder:

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamateurmasturbation/

has no index page.

WHY? WHY? WHY?

Alex

[binxgook]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

It's a doorway?

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamate...on/1/index.htm

click enter goes to:

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamate...ation/main.htm

And that folder:

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamateurmasturbation/

has no index page.

WHY? WHY? WHY?

Alex

Maybe I am missing something but isnt the enter link supposed to go to the main page?

I though doorways were acceptable as long as they were structured appropriately? i.e. /1/index as oppsed to index1

Are you talking about a original index with no recips?

[RawAlex]

No, many link sites don't accept doorways, regardless of how you structure them.

Why not have an index page on the main site and put your best return links there? Instead you have an inaccessible directory.

Your making this way more difficult on yourself, and giving people reasons to decline your sites.

Alex

[binxgook]

Strange, this is how I have been submitting for 2 years and have never been turned down because of this as long as they were structered correctly??

[MrMaryLou]

binxgook, I rejected it becuase of the content is of poor qaulity borderline video caps

[binxgook]

Ya know, i thought they might be vid caps but I wasnt sure. Thought maybe they were just a little poorer quality pics. Tried to fix em up as best I could. Usually vid caps have the black border around them. Sorry about that.

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

It's a doorway?

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamate...on/1/index.htm

click enter goes to:

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamate...ation/main.htm

And that folder:

http://www.naughtybabs.com/realamateurmasturbation/

has no index page.

WHY? WHY? WHY?

Alex

Okay, can someone explain this to me? So far, I've asked 3 LL owners this question, and only Fonz gave me a plausible answer.

As long as I stick to the rules (which I honestly try to, with the best of my capabilities), I use the right recips (which I do) I'm not having doorway pages (which I'm not), none of my freesites had any shit on them (which they don't), I try to be as upfront as possible (I inquire about my sites getting rejected each time I'm declined), and I'm not using the same content twice for freesites (and even if someday many moons from now I will, I will also copy it in that site's directory) why does that matter?

I'm using that type of structure too... and I don't understand what's wrong with it.

The surfer won't notice, the SE's will still find their way around, none are that stupid afterall. I won't have to copy/paste the same stuff into 40 directories (it can be an issue, even if not a big one) and copying the content in 40 directories will accumulate REAL quick and fill my n00bie's quota on my n00bie's shared hosting...

So... what does this rule actually accomplish? I understand it's not a big issue for the guys submitting to 30 linklists or so, being sure they'll get listed to each and every one of them, every time (cuz afterall, they list those other ll owners sites as well) but how about me trying to build some traffic and I don't even know yet who's sending worthy traffic and who's not, cuz I haven't been here that long, thus I submit to about 300 LLs daily?

I don't wanna be misunderstood, I'm not trying to be impertinent or anything, it's just something I don't get...

[Lemmy]

Everything related to the FS in question resides within the same base folder and there's no funny stuff going on. I have no problems with the way things are done here. I too thought the pics were a bit crappy, but hey, I'm not that picky so I approved the site that was subbed to me.

[RawAlex]

Johnny, quite simply, it is an un-natural link situation based on what the SEs will see. There is little (read: NO) chance that any SE traffic or other accidental traffic will every hit that page. The chance that I, running a link site, will get any benefit from linking that page is somewhere between negligible and non-existant.

Nobody for a second suggests that you copy the content 40 times. Just copy the HTML 40 times - as long as the content is on the same domain, very few people complain.

Anyway, if you are making 40 copies and have 10 link sites per copy, you are WAY over doing it. If you go back and look, 99% of your traffic is coming from less than 10 of those sites.

You want to do it THIS way, then submit to sites that use THIS set of rules. You want to submit to THOSE link sites, then build your sites to THOSE rules.

Not hard.

Alex

[JohnnyR]

Well, LOL. I'm submitting to LOADS of linklists just to get the links for the SEs and now I find out it was all for nothing. Fuckin' swell Johnny-boy...

But then again, better later then never. Well, I guess it's time I started working on a copy script and get my shit in order.

Thanks for the explanation RawAlex, it was something I needed to know. Please toss out all submissions to date comming from comecum.net

It's not that I wanna submit to THIS and THOSE link sites, I wanna submit to them ALL as long as it doesn't take too much effort (smaller guys are more likely to list me too, for various reasons) - I'm just the kind of guy which tries to please everybody. guess I should've learned so far that's just not doable, but hey, whadda ya know, I didn't.

Thanks again. If there are other views on the matter, please let me know.

[RawAlex]

Johnny, it is doable, but you want to make the structure something like a normal site that googlebot or others would see. They know how to spot doorways. Look through google for the domain mentioned here. 6000 pages in the SEs, but most of the doorway pages don't have any "content" next to the listing, which means either not indexed yet, or not indexed for other reasons. There is a trend.

Build real directories with actual html in those directories, and things work a little better.



Alex

[JohnnyR]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Look through google for the domain mentioned here. 6000 pages in the SEs, but most of the doorway pages don't have any "content" next to the listing, which means either not indexed yet, or not indexed for other reasons. There is a trend.

Build real directories with actual html in those directories, and things work a little better.

God damn man, you're right. And it's exactly the way MY shit looks like too. I'd better get this fixed from now on. Ya see? You made a beliver outta me.
Any pointers on how to improve my site's rating with the SEs a little? Except for adding kw rich titles, text and textlinks, and adding meta stuff? ta.

[RawAlex]

Well, if you are going to make 10 doorway sites, you might want to make each index page at least slightly unique - different title tags or something.

Good luck!

[JohnnyR]

Ok, you are reffering to each index as a doorway page, right? The indexes which go ../main.htm. How about indexes which go main.hmt (in the same directories)? I supose these aren't doorway pages, correct? Although I assume the advice applies to these as well. When I manage to trim down my list a bit, I'll put some 12-16 recips/page, and have only like 5 indexes to submit, then I shall make all of them pages look slightly different - good point. Heck if I would've thought of that.

[Jel]

Johnny, you can probably get by with making 2 directories, not all LLs require your warning page to be the true index. Use the first directory for those that do, make the 2nd directory for those that do. (I'm talking around 12 recips here btw) As Alex said, make all the pages in each folder unique - change the titles a tad, change the keywords a tad, change the text to accomodate the different keywords. In one of the folders, make doorway pages for those LLs that accept them - and link all those to the mainpage in that directory. Change the title, name of the file, alter the text slightly to go for different search terms, and use those in your metas.

Depending on which day of the week it is (ie how I feel that day) that's what I do, on others I'll make copies of all the pages and have 7 real index pages in seperate folders with all the html in.

Whatever way, there are going to be duplicates, or very near duplicates. At least the way I see it. Ideally I try for

Folder 1
warning (index.html)
mainpage (keyphrase.html)
gallery 1 (keyphrase.html)
gallery 2 (keyphrase.html)

Folder 2
warning (index.html)
mainpage (keyphrase.html)
gallery 1 (keyphrase.html)
gallery 2 (keyphrase.html)

and in folder 1 add

keyphrase.html x however many I need which serve as the warning page to those LLs that accept them, all leading to the mainpage in folder 1

So no jumping back out of a folder at any time to go to the next page in the site.

Any opinions on that? Is it right, wrong, or just another way of doing it which is also OK?

Thanks

[JohnnyR]

Jel, as we discussed it on previous occasions, I use a software that bulk-multiplies the indexes, at the same time creating folders for each of them. Start making these by hand isn't a option for me right now. Nor is start coding a new script for this task worthwile atm. Also, I like treating everybody the same, no matter how big or small they are. I mostly appreciate those which are willing to discuss any problem/question you might have. If he's got time for me, hell yeah I'm gonna have time to create my sites the way he'd like them. Even if they're not that great and have a minimal set of rules, I'll treat them just the way I tread everyone else. It's just a personal oppinion about life I have in general, not only about the .net stuff. Not to mention in this case that they might and some of them will grow, (but even if they don't) the upstanding owners WILL appreciate your attitude towards their linklist and WILL return the same proffessional curtesy to you. And to me, a friend gained or a good business associate is way more important then 1, 10, or 100 signups.

Now Jel, let me pick your post apart, cuz I didn't get most of it *sad* (btw, you should be receiving an email too shortly)

1. warning page the same as the true index - meaning the warning page doesn't have to be called index.htm, but could be called warning.htm or smth like that, right?

2. I don't really grasp the concept of dorway pages in this case. Is it the thing I mentioned in my last post?

3. make 40 sets of unique pages would need too much time. Once I have a list of about 5-8 indexes (around 60-100 LLs I'll be submiting to) that'll work.

4. for you scheme, didn't you mean keyphrase1 keyphrase 2 etc? do you have the same keyphrase on the index/main/galleries on each folder or not? do you have the same keyphrase for the index in one folder and the index in the other one? And so on, same for main, galleries?

5. keyphrase.html x however many I need which serve as the warning page to those LLs that accept them, all leading to the mainpage in folder 1 - I'm clueless on what you mean by this.

Some more questions:

Are 16 recips/index too many? Are there any LL owners that would mind?

Moving on, some more questions:

Would making all the recips look the same upset anyone? Of course, keeping the original text / links. I know everybody's saying it's ok, but has any of you had an experience where the LL owner said ok, but suddenly stopped listing your sites after you did that? I would hope not... but you never know.

And one final VERY IMPORTANT question: I understand some of the smaller ll's traffic is just not worth it. But they do list me, and so giving that precious backlink. And they are spidered by se bots just like every other LL out there, so my question is: won't the SE traffic be worthwile, even if they don't send you noticeable traffic from their own source?

Dammit, I really need some good SE tutorials, but the ones I've been able to find were yapping about how importent meta keywords was, and I wouldn't want spending time learning out of date stuff. Any good SEO tutorials/links from anyone? Anyone at all?

I'm also hoping some more people will jump in this thread, and let us know their oppinion on these matters. I really dislike those who are like "hehe, I know, but I ain't telling" guys, tho it's their right to be like that. Anywaaaays, let's hope some helpfull folks will see this thread and let us know what's their take on it.

[Jel]

Sorry I'm late
Yeah, I forgot about that code you use, and see what you mean about it being a ton of work, but that ton of work now *may* save you 2 tons of ongoing submitting etc. I don't know, it may not be that bad the way you do it at the moment, if it isn't then cool beans.

1. warning page the same as the true index - meaning the warning page doesn't have to be called index.htm, but could be called warning.htm or smth like that, right?
Yes, it can, smth like that being keyphrase.html


2. I don't really grasp the concept of dorway pages in this case. Is it the thing I mentioned in my last post?
You have a doorway page(s) that are warning pages leading to the mainpages, or mirror sites that are the whole folder duplicated with slight changes so they aren't exact duplicates.
That's my understanding, although I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.


3. make 40 sets of unique pages would need too much time. Once I have a list of about 5-8 indexes (around 60-100 LLs I'll be submiting to) that'll work.
Good although I do it so I need to make 2 or 3 sets, and then the extra warning pages themselves that sit in an existing folder, again, if this is a fucked up way please someone let me know

4. for you scheme, didn't you mean keyphrase1 keyphrase 2 etc? do you have the same keyphrase on the index/main/galleries on each folder or not? do you have the same keyphrase for the index in one folder and the index in the other one? And so on, same for main, galleries?
Yes, I did mean keyphrase1, keyphrase2 etc. I try to keep each page a unique keyphrase, unfortunately laziness sometimes gets the better of me and I'll keep duplicates

5. keyphrase.html x however many I need which serve as the warning page to those LLs that accept them, all leading to the mainpage in folder 1 - I'm clueless on what you mean by this.
That's the extra warning pages, all named differentkeyphrase.html rather than index.html, that get submitted to those who accept pages other than the true index.html


Hope that made a bit of sense, I'm not an expert by any means, and am as keen for others to add some input

[Mateusz]

Sorry for taking over this topic but I see person I suspect for cheating spoke here recently (well.. although I pretty sure I'm right and in fact I wanted to post this in cheater forum but decided to do it here to let 'my victim' reply first)
So.. I find JohnnyR to be a bit schizophremic..
Till few days I receve submits from 'two' guys from 'johnnyr' and 'Vasi' but there are few problems...
1)both submits seem to be allways one after another in my admin review panel
2) surprisingly similar directory structure and recip choice (no offense but these all match at both sites: mikesfreeporn.com, mr-purples-porn-links.com, morepornforme.com, morefilth.com, mommaspussy.com, mykindaporn.com)
http://www.comecum.net/sites/071/27/index.htm
http://www.webvids.net/free/25/21/index.htm
not even saying about 'All models are over 18' text at both sites
3) both domains (and pleasuredelivery.com as email) are registered by one registrar and hosted by the same company
4) both 'more of my free sites' pages are connected together as friendly sites...
well I think is something more than just friendship...

Ohhh... I forgot to mention both guys are constantly using free 'teen hitchhikers' content...

[JohnnyR]

Hmmm... well, interesting situation I find myself in.
All the things matheusz said are true. I'm not sure what's the "procedure" in this type of situation.

You let me know what's to be done to prove we're two different people and I'll do it. Do you want the story? I can tell it. Does it matter? Afterall it might be just a story.

Do you want detailed explanations for why all your points) are happening, I'll give it.

I was even talking to Vasi about we hosting a webcam conference for whom might be interested, but he said "well they might think you just called in any friend" and he's true for most part too, but if it's any help, we'll do it. no prob.

One thing applies tho: I'm not such a fool that, if I were cheating, I would have hide it this poorly. Do you see any indications I was trying to hide something Mateusz? I (we) were as forthcoming as possible. Let's think about it:

- is realitycash the only sponsor? Nopes, if I wanted to cheat, I wouldn't have been promoting the SAME sponsor with the same content, as you said. As I see it, that one of the things that would raise a flag, isn't it?

- how about domains registered at the same registrant. Come on, it's not like I'm registering to the cheapest registrant around, is it? It's just as easy to create 2 accounts on 2 different registrants.

- similary directory structure, similiar recips. Well, yep. we're using the same software and the same initial database, which then each of us tweaked to match his own preference. We weren't thinking of hiding it, were I one person submitting with 2 of those, were I have not hid it it better? It's not THAT hard, it'll take me less then 15' to change it upside down and inside out.

- what else... yeah the "more then friendship" thing. Well, (ripley's) belive it or not, we're neighbors and more then that we're friends. We're gonna move in together very soon too, so the IP's will look much alike too soon. Anyways, I was saying... he's at my place or I am at his most of the time, so usually we're chilling, and one would say "fuck this, let's go do some work". thus submission times. I don't think they're THAT alike tho, there are enough times when one of us is doing smth else and we're not submitting @ once. By the way, take a look in your admin pannel, and tell me something: did it never happen that the submissions were VERY close? like 2-10-20 minutes? I'm sure you'll find such things there. Do you think 1 person could have done it? considering I have 40 indexes or so and they're all submited and most of them listed to most LL's? Check it out for yourself.

- oh, yes, and # 4). The hub linking. Could anyone be THAT stupid to interlink his own sites he's submitting from 2 different names? I'm sure you have no oppinion of me as you don't know me, but I guarantee you, stupid is one thing I'm not. Nor is Vasi. Most of our text links look alike to. "Borrowing" ideeas happen in this sort of situations. Would have we want to hide this, or would I have been a single person, wouldn't I have hid it better?

I admit, there were other suspicions as well. Those ppl emailed me tho, letting me know, not come on the board tryin' to ruin my reputation (not that I have any), and some of these things I posted here that I explained to them in the email as well must have made sense... cuz you're the first one posting here. Anyways, to shut down these supicions, I practically forced vasi to come sing up on the board and start posting stuff. Which he did a couple of days ago. But he's not a big fan of forums, and he doesn't speak that good english either, so he's posting-shy, hehe. Would I have been 1 person, you can be sure I would have posted with both of the accounts all over this board. Well, anwyays, he's post eager now, lol, but in this situation that doesn't matter anymore.

One thing is for sure tho: we'll stay in the freesites game. We're not running anywhere, we're not hinding from anyone. And I'm not adminiting to something we didn't do either, and this sounds for one of my friends here who said something along the lines "well, they'll never belive you guys anyways, so you might as well say you're the same person and appologise and promise to not do it again". Well, I'm not appologizing, there's nothing to excuse myself about. AND we'll keep submitting like we were before.
Because, in the end, Mateusz, each LL owner will form his own oppinion. I trust some of the ppl I spoken more closely and get to know me a lil' better, allready will keep listing our sites. Others will form their own oppionion about this. Some will belive we're honest, and keep listing us. Some of them won't be listing us anymore, based on your post. It's their LL, they can list whomever they please and I'm not condamning anyone.
If there's anything else I need to provide to sustain our cause, you folks will let me know. I'm willing to give even personal details (in private) like ids and such, if needed, and Vasi agrees to this too. Btw mateusz, I added you on ICQ as well. Anything else you want to ask me about, I'm not hiding anywhere.

Thanks for hearing me out.

[JohnnyR]

Thanks for the explanations Jel, yeah, it definatelly makes more sense now.
Thing is, I found out yesterday that entering 40 directories and hitting Ctrl+V isn't that hard afterall, hehe, so yesterday I submited my first site with that structure. And what do you know, got some new listings *thumbs up*. Thanks RawAlex for this advice.

However, there's something else: I can't really change 40 sets of 4 pages (index+main+gallery1+gallery2.htm). I mean change text, titles and descriptions on all of them, so I need to know wheter or not I am in any danger to get my domain banned by SEs, if there are so many pages all alike. Keep in mind, till now, I only had 40 indexes, but only 1 copy of main/gallery1/gallery2.

You guys please let me know about this one. If there is such threat, I'll put in the extra half an hour or so to make some changes. I'm thinking have 4 different "sets" of pages, so each 10 will be the same. Will smth like this help? Help to avoid getting banned I mean, I'm sure it will help for the SE traffic.

By the way, to whom it may concern, if this we the SE's won't ban me, I'm gonna strongly recommend Vasi he did it the same way. So the two of us will once again have the same directory structure, lol.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

By the way, to whom it may concern, if this we the SE's won't ban me, I'm gonna strongly recommend Vasi he did it the same way. So the two of us will once again have the same directory structure, lol.

Aren't there already enough similarities between you and Vasi?

[JohnnyR]

ment that as a joke UW, tho' I'm sure you know it. I decided not to let this thread bother me too much, so it's business as usual, therefor can you offer any advice on the problem at hand?

[MrYum]

Thought I'd drop a post in here on the JohnnyR / Vasi subject.

JohnnyR started submitting to me several weeks ago. A couple weeks later, his friend Vasi started submitting. Johnny contacted me and told me he had referred his friend to my link site...and that they work together sometimes. Being that they're both new to the biz and sharing knowledge as they go along...it makes sense that their work would have some similarities.

I've had to decline a few of JohnnyR's sites and a few of Vasi's. They've always contacted me about the declines and made changes in future submissions to correct any problems.

From my conversations with JohnnyR on ICQ, I'm pretty fuckin confident these are not the same person...and neither of them are trying to cheat in any way. They're NEW...and have the baggage that goes along with that fact.

So, for whatever it's worth...I've got no probs with either of them and welcome their submissions at FPP

Well, one little caveat...Johnny...find a new niche! Geez, way too many teens

[Useless]

Originally Posted by MrYum

From my conversations with JohnnyR on ICQ, I'm pretty fuckin confident these are not the same person...and neither of them are trying to cheat in any way. They're NEW...and have the baggage that goes along with that fact.

I don't mean to imply that they are the same person.

MrYum, I'm PMing you.