Do you think surfers were spoiled, or have been burned.

[sbm4latinaz]

I was chating with some friends who have pay sites not long ago, one is a webmistress 2 do the affiliate thing the other 4 have niche sites.
Well the convo got to the subject of viewers buying memberships, they all feel that the reason people dont join is because they were spoiled during the pre tech bubble busting days, and this got me thinking, I've been on many forums devoted to webmasters where this line of thought is common.

Well I have also been on forums ran by surfers and a different line of thought comes out, I hear complaints about there being alot of crap out there and horror stories of getting burned by sites that dont update often, have ugly watermarks on the pics even on the pay side(thats soooo tacky) or webmistreses that up and bounce 4 days into your membership or the worst ones the ones that say the're amateur only to see that same girl in a porno a week later and often you join only to see the same models you saw in the last 4 sites you have joined etc etc ......

And the fact that many sites dont give you a good idea of whats really in the site, "click here for tour" and they tell you what the have but with no content to give you an informed choice.

Now it is true that porn (amateur mostly) was much better 10 years ago, all you had to do was do a search on yahoo and every swinger with a computer had his wives pics up.

Now amateur does not even mean amateur, though some sites are starting to realise this and nolonger using the word "amateur" and are replacing that word with the word "original".
All in all I know there are alot of freebie chasers out there but even they will spend money if they think they are getting value for their buck and not being lied too.

So my question is what do you think has to be done to win back the trust of most burnt surfers or do you think they really are just spoiled?

[bunky2u]

There will always be surfers who buy into porn sites.

... but to win back the trust of the surfers who were burnt you need time and a damn hot offer to sway their opinion.

As per the surfers who were/are spoiled with the whole "free porn" deal, they are freeloaders who probably wouldn't change their ways even if they had a million dollars to join a paysite.

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by bunky2u

There will always be surfers who buy into porn sites.

... but to win back the trust of the surfers who were burnt you need time and a damn hot offer to sway their opinion.

As per the surfers who were/are spoiled with the whole "free porn" deal, they are freeloaders who probably wouldn't change their ways even if they had a million dollars to join a paysite.

I agree with most of what you said, though being one of those guys that was spoiled in the 90's even I have paid to join a few sites, though in 10 years I have only joined like 8 sites and was only happy with 6 of them.
reasons being those stated in my last post.
And as far as there always being a market for porn you are right but if you give the people what they want there would be a bigger market.

[bunky2u]

you can't satisfy everybody...

What would you consider to be an ideal site that would maintain a high recurrance of memberships?

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by bunky2u

you can't satisfy everybody...

What would you consider to be an ideal site that would maintain a high recurrance of memberships?

I'm not saying you have to have one supersite for all peoples tastes, but within your niche you can, and proof of that is the fact that most sites know what to say to bring people, but when you get there its a different story.
So the ideal would be if the sites had what they say they had.
If you call yourself an amateur site then have actual amateur content not a bunch of staged pro-am crap, if you are a latina site, dont try to pass off dark haired white girls with tans off as latina, if you have an indian site have actual indian women not english or american women who's parents were indian.
If you have an amateur milf site dont try to pass off washed up pornstars from the 70's and 80's as houswives(they are not amateurs). if you say you have pornstars have actual pornstars and not just some girl that posed in penthouse in 1997, and a few ex hustler models.

All I'm saying is have what you say you will have.

[Surfn]

I have no problem selling to surfers

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Surfn

I have no problem selling to surfers

Yeah, but ... you've been doing this for hundreds of years.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Simon

Yeah, but ... you've been doing this for hundreds of years.

An Uzi doesn't hurt either

I would never agree with the surfer being spoiled or the members. Not if you take the Internet as a whole.

We all sell porn content, what ever you do the money flowing into the business does so from PORN CONTENT sales.

So how many porn shooters can sell there product anywhere else? What shooter is selling to magazines? Say what you like about style a decent magazine set is worth $2,000. so why aren't more stills shooters selling to magazines? Simple answer is they are not good enough.

So lets look at DVDs. How many companies are selling to the DVD side of porn? Very few that I know of. Again the simple answer is the content is not good enough.

So we on the Internet specialise in Amateur. Which does not carry across to magazines or DVD. BULLSHIT.

Look at the sets in Razzle, Escort, Readers Wives, Barely Legal, Tight, Score Eighteen and you will see a healthy sprinkling of new models shot in Amateur style.

Now go down to the local DVD shop and again you see the same. The best selling lines are GONZO, which is very similar to Amateur and a lot of the sites on the NET. We call it POV.

Unless if by Amateur you mean amateur photographer shooting a paid model. In this niche we are the tops.

We've been reviewing a lot of sites recently for our new review site. most of them are not worth $30 a month and some are not even worth $10 IMO.

But some sites totally spoil the surfer. Alsscan, Sapphic Erotica, Twistys and a few more. They deliver a full months worth of content for the $30. Content in a decent size, clarity, that fits the niche and delivers the right effect.

How many other sites compare to these?

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham2

I would never agree with the surfer being spoiled or the members. Not if you take the Internet as a whole.

We all sell porn content, what ever you do the money flowing into the business does so from PORN CONTENT sales.

So how many porn shooters can sell there product anywhere else? What shooter is selling to magazines? Say what you like about style a decent magazine set is worth $2,000. so why aren't more stills shooters selling to magazines? Simple answer is they are not good enough.

Actually there are allot of good amateur magazines out there, problem is that they are usually over priced.

So lets look at DVDs. How many companies are selling to the DVD side of porn? Very few that I know of. Again the simple answer is the content is not good enough.

eeeerrrr ever heard of "home grown" ?
yes you are right on the DVD/VHS side of porn allot of good amateur series quickly become pro-am once the series takes off, "dirty debutants" 1 - 4 was real amateur after that it became pro-am, but "home grown" is still true amateur. and a few others

So we on the Internet specialise in Amateur. Which does not carry across to magazines or DVD. BULLSHIT.

I cant agree there, it is very very hard to find real amateur, most of the crap I find on the net is pro-am, a rule of thumb I use is if you have to guess if its amateur then its not amateur.

Look at the sets in Razzle, Escort, Readers Wives, Barely Legal, Tight, Score Eighteen and you will see a healthy sprinkling of new models shot in Amateur style.

I agree to a point.

Now go down to the local DVD shop and again you see the same. The best selling lines are GONZO, which is very similar to Amateur and a lot of the sites on the NET. We call it POV.

Unless if by Amateur you mean amateur photographer shooting a paid model. In this niche we are the tops.

Now I mean amateur photography shooting non-models, much the way homegrown is with DVD's.

We've been reviewing a lot of sites recently for our new review site. most of them are not worth $30 a month and some are not even worth $10 IMO.

But some sites totally spoil the surfer. Alsscan, Sapphic Erotica, Twistys and a few more. They deliver a full months worth of content for the $30. Content in a decent size, clarity, that fits the niche and delivers the right effect.

How many other sites compare to these?

outside of southerncharms and dreamnet there is not much "true" amateur stuff out there and even some of them ruin it by photoshoping their pics to death or hiring pro photographers and making their sets look staged.

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

Actually there are allot of good amateur magazines out there, problem is that they are usually over priced.

Good point, but these over priced magazines sell for $5 to $10 and give 10 to 12 sets. Yet they have a circulation in the tens of thousands. In fact it's hardly profitable to produce a magazine under 10,000. Compare that with paysites and you see we are missing out.

eeeerrrr ever heard of "home grown" ?
yes you are right on the DVD/VHS side of porn allot of good amateur series quickly become pro-am once the series takes off, "dirty debutants" 1 - 4 was real amateur after that it became pro-am, but "home grown" is still true amateur. and a few others

Home Grown came from the Video world to the Internet. I was talking about Internet companies going the other way.

I cant agree there, it is very very hard to find real amateur, most of the crap I find on the net is pro-am, a rule of thumb I use is if you have to guess if its amateur then its not amateur.

outside of southerncharms and dreamnet there is not much "true" amateur stuff out there and even some of them ruin it by photoshoping their pics to death or hiring pro photographers and making their sets look staged.

A lot of what I see is paid model-poor photographer.

Amateur = Someone doing it for free, usually for the love of it.

Amateurs pick up medals at the Olympics or go look on your local golf course to see "Amateurs" so not by any means a word to describe "Poor Quality". I've always known this niche as "Readers Wives" ie the boyfriend shooting his girlfriend. What most of the "Amateur" content on the Internet lacks is the look of fun and spontaneity on the models face. Very often the model is posing professionally and detatched and the shooter is shooting badly.

The Adunt Net had millions of people interested in porn surfing through it, yet sell to 1-1000. we need to look very hard and long at why we all convert badly.

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham2

Good point, but these over priced magazines sell for $5 to $10 and give 10 to 12 sets. Yet they have a circulation in the tens of thousands. In fact it's hardly profitable to produce a magazine under 10,000. Compare that with paysites and you see we are missing out.

Yah I think i was born to late lol , and to think hustle started out as just a free newsletter to promote his stripclub.

A lot of what I see is paid model-poor photographer.

I think it is a trick to fool us into thinking its "REAL" amateur but we are not fooled.

Amateurs pick up medals at the Olympics or go look on your local golf course to see "Amateurs" so not by any means a word to describe "Poor Quality". I've always known this niche as "Readers Wives" ie the boyfriend shooting his girlfriend. What most of the "Amateur" content on the Internet lacks is the look of fun and spontaneity on the models face. Very often the model is posing professionally and detatched and the shooter is shooting badly.

It's funney you mention the look in their eyes because me and a friend were talking about the fact that almost every time we stumble on REAL amateur, the girl looks either drunk of her ass or her eyes look like she's been smoking tree's all day. but thats another topic, I dont mind good quality but I do NOT like staged sets, and most of us can tell a studio with furnicher from a real house that is lived in. I think they stopped making amateur in 1996 because almost every other amateur photo I see the girls hair and clothes are 10 years out of date. and often the timestamp on the pic tells the story, maybe its because nowadays everyone is aware of the net so its harder to get some girl you met at the bar to hours ago to pose for pics.

Think about it, 12 years ago the worst thing that good happen if a girl posed for her boyfriend 5 or 6 of his buddies would see them if they broke up, now millions could see them.

The Adunt Net had millions of people interested in porn surfing through it, yet sell to 1-1000. we need to look very hard and long at why we all convert badly.

It could be what i mentioned earlier, people are tired of getting lied to.

[emmanuelle]

I think that surfers are simply more educated than they used to be. They know what signs to look for, and are making more thoughtful decisions about where to spend their hard earned cash.

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I think that surfers are simply more educated than they used to be. They know what signs to look for, and are making more thoughtful decisions about where to spend their hard earned cash.

You have a good point there, many pay sites are so scard to give their content away that they buy content for the sole purpose of using it for their hosted galleries, there are about 30 sites I've seen the same models on the hosted galleries(different sets same model).
This leads a potential custumer to be a drive by viewer.

people work to hard for their money to just give it away.
I'm into niche catagories(asian,latina, indian) and its 5,000,000,000 time worse, I see the same 10 girls everywhere and they still have the nerve to call them amateur.
.

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

I think it is a trick to fool us into thinking its "REAL" amateur but we are not fooled.

It's a trick to fool the affiliate into driving traffic. do you really think it fools the surfer prepared to spend $30? Well not a lot of them. Hence the conversion figures.

It's funny you mention the look in their eyes because me and a friend were talking about the fact that almost every time we stumble on REAL amateur, the girl looks either drunk of her ass or her eyes look like she's been smoking tree's all day. but thats another topic, I dont mind good quality but I do NOT like staged sets, and most of us can tell a studio with furnicher from a real house that is lived in. I think they stopped making amateur in 1996 because almost every other amateur photo I see the girls hair and clothes are 10 years out of date. and often the timestamp on the pic tells the story, maybe its because nowadays everyone is aware of the net so its harder to get some girl you met at the bar to hours ago to pose for pics.

No Amateur is still around, but it's tough to shoot. Amateur guys look shit on camera and have a problem getting it up. Amateur girls in the real sense are tough to find as once a girl has done a few shoots she starts to pose. Plus some of them don't look so hot. But it is still around. One of the best producers of it is a English guy called John Mason.

[url=http://www.bargainbasementcontent.com/content.php?noform=1&aCategory%5B%5D=21]We have this stuff and it's about as amateur as you can get. Sells badly,so please don't tell me studio does not outsell amateur. |confused|

Think about it, 12 years ago the worst thing that good happen if a girl posed for her boyfriend 5 or 6 of his buddies would see them if they broke up, now millions could see them.

Very good point. One of the biggest problems of the free content on the Internet is not that it stops surfers from buying. It's that it stops girls from turning up to castings.

Ask most 18 to 20 year olds and they will tell you about a girl who knows a girl who had all her pictures plastered all over the Internet and now can't look her Dad in the face. This is cutting down the supply of models. In Czech it's not too much of a problem, but I do know it is elsewhere. Also the best girls do not turn up so much.

It could be what i mentioned earlier, people are tired of getting lied to.

They are more wary than 5 years ago.

Good post and thanks.

[sbm4latinaz]

Very good point. One of the biggest problems of the free content on the Internet is not that it stops surfers from buying. It's that it stops girls from turning up to castings.

Ask most 18 to 20 year olds and they will tell you about a girl who knows a girl who had all her pictures plastered all over the Internet and now can't look her Dad in the face. This is cutting down the supply of models. In Czech it's not too much of a problem, but I do know it is elsewhere. Also the best girls do not turn up so much.

Yah I see your point and it is much worse in my niches, because latinaz,asians and east indians come from very conservative cultures, even the slutiest east indian girl or latina would think twice before letting some guy she came home from the bar with take her pics for fear of it getting back to her family, infact I read once about an east indian girl (going to school in the usa)who was burned alive by her own family when she came home to visit because a cousin found mpegs of her and her american boyfriend having sex on the net.
They claimed it was to preserve their family honer, This is a country where middle class families will pay for vaginal reconstuctional surgery, when their daughters come back to india from going to school abroad and lost their cherry, so as to not lower her value to potental suiters.