Any ideas for a realistic alternative to the Free Speech Coalition?

Bill · 2006-03-17, 04:48 PM

So, it's getting time to put your money where your mouth is.

Memberships to the FSC will be up for renewal in a few months.

Tons of people signed up because they were all scared about 2257 last year. (Which, by the way, is not the reason I joined, I believed the 2257 attack would fail, but felt that uit was just the beginning of a political crackdown.)

Well, there are even more ugly attacks on our industry coming around the corner, that make the bureaucratic sneakiness of the last 2257 debacle look like nothing.

For those people who are all pissed off at the FSC I have this question.

Who do you propose we ally with instead of the Free Speech Coalition?

Don't just bitch and moan, put your candidate on the table.

Chop Smith · 2006-03-17, 05:55 PM

Bill, I don't think I remember ever admitting that I was a member of FSC because I hated the way a couple of members of the board was driving their scare tatic, sky falling membership drive. I am a member of FSC and ACLU and will rejoin both. However, neither is going to properly represent the average adult webmaster. IMO, the only way that we will get proper representation is for us to band together, put our money where our mouths are and form a new trade association.

Bill · 2006-03-17, 06:19 PM

Yes, Chop, I think you're right, one of the few clear alternatives would be to try and form our own trade association.

It would have a lot of advantages.

But, I believe it would be _significantly_ more expensive. Let's say we can get away with $100 to $300 a year each with memberships to the FSC. Staring our own association would probably require closer to a thousand dollars each per year (that's a conservative estimate), if we wanted it to be anything more than a toothless symbol.

And the learning curve, learning how to lobby and how to act politically, and how to run it as an organization, could be very steep. It's been tried before and failed spectacularly every time.

But, it's definitely a choice that has to be kept on the table and studied closely.

---

On another note, I just renewed my membership with the ACLU. $75 well spent.

walrus · 2006-03-17, 07:26 PM

You get what you pay for. As long as we're willing to be treated like a red-headed stepchild and give them our money, they will be only more than happy to oblige.

My feeling is that if we showed we were seriously making an attempt to form some type of association...and it began to sprout legs...then the FSC would be willing to put more effort into our causes because while we may not be a major source of revenue....I can't imagine we're chump change either.

As far as the FSC...I let my membership expire months ago and have no intention of renewing it.

Surfn · 2006-03-17, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walrus

You get what you pay for. As long as we're willing to be treated like a red-headed stepchild and give them our money, they will be only more than happy to oblige.

My feeling is that if we showed we were seriously making an attempt to form some type of association...and it began to sprout legs...then the FSC would be willing to put more effort into our causes because while we may not be a major source of revenue....I can't imagine we're chump change either.

As far as the FSC...I let my membership expire months ago and have no intention of renewing it.

Well said

Ms Naughty · 2006-03-17, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walrus

As long as we're willing to be treated like a red-headed stepchild

I'm a redhead. I feel so rejected...

walrus · 2006-03-17, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmascrotum

I'm a redhead. I feel so rejected...

oops

Bill · 2006-03-17, 08:51 PM

Well, I suggest that we have no idea what the FSC could do for us, because so far we've just thrown some cash at them without making any demands.

In politics, you aren't taken seriously unless you are a threat.

And we haven't threatened the FSC.

We need to bust their balls, then measure the response, in order to know wether or not they are of any use to us.

walrus · 2006-03-17, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

We need to bust their balls, then measure the response, in order to know wether or not they are of any use to us.

To bust some balls you have to be in some position of power. The only power we have is in our pockets and guess what...the next big scare is right around the corner and they'll be able to extort memberships just as effectively as the last time.

Ms Naughty · 2006-03-17, 09:07 PM

LOL Walrus

The FSC guy said they were re-doing the site and would get back to us. A month is a long time to wait, but I'm hoping they'll turn up and give us an update.

Chop Smith · 2006-03-18, 01:07 AM

Even in the 'something for nothing' society that we live in today, money talks. Form our independent webmasters association and raise some bucks, buy a corporate membership in FSC and negoiate with them to have our own board member. If you band together, you will get their attention.

Get 100 webmasters to ante up $100 each. Put the money in the hands of the most respected webmaster that we have and see what the $10,000 will buy.

Let me know where you want me to send my contribution.

Loganp8000 · 2006-03-18, 03:54 AM

Wow, certainly is an interesting idea. I pay a monthly fee for so many things, I wouldnt mind paying 100 a month for our own trade association. My concern would be if the $$ would be used properly.

ALOHA

Bill · 2006-03-18, 03:53 PM

Okay, so far, on the table we have two choices.

The FSC, and starting our own trade association.

(The trade association concept has several variations, but we will lump it together as one thing for now.)

Can anyone think of any other alternatives that should be considered?

How about the AFF and Paul Cambria?

How about a fan association like FOXE?

walrus · 2006-03-19, 05:21 PM

I can't and judging by the responses so far....

So what's next? Is it time to let this die and accept the status quo or is there enough momentum for some type of movement?

Bill · 2006-03-19, 05:33 PM

Well, I think it's a bit too early to stop the opinion gathering phase yet.

I also think people may be grossly underestimating the amount of work and trouble and expense involved in trying to start a webmaster association.

And, trying to start our own association makes the question of "who bells the cat" - that is, who is in charge of the association, and who does the grunt work of the asociation - all the more pressing. Staffing an association is likely to be very tricky.

walrus · 2006-03-19, 05:58 PM

I've been known to jump the gun, once or twice

and I definately appreciate all the work it would take to setup our own association and I believe that there is absolutely very few qualified cats to be belled and because most of them dont want the damn bell it is a pipe dream to think that it would happen anytime in the very near future (or my lifetime for that matter).

That having been said, I think Chop's earlier suggestion is a much better idea. Money does talk and if banded together we could use that to possibly affect change at the FSC. But again, who do you trust to collect the $$$ and then go to the FSC and negotiate the basic changes needed to be awarded the cash and who is going to play watchdog to ensure such changes are put in place and to regularly report on progress.

Simon · 2006-03-19, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walrus

...who do you trust to collect the $$$ and then go to the FSC and negotiate the basic changes needed to be awarded the cash and who is going to play watchdog to ensure such changes are put in place and to regularly report on progress.

Just putting out the thought that those could be three or more people. We could trust someone we all know, and who definitely doesn't need the money. Probably a couple of candidates for that around here. Then the best negotiator, who's willing, could be the one who works out a deal with the FSC (or whoever). And then the watchdogging could be a team responsibility, not left to the negotiator or 'treasurer.'

--
(note to self: 'watchdogging' sounds like a niche - combination of English dogging and voyeurism)

karomesis · 2006-03-19, 08:02 PM

If I may interject; the war being waged against pornography is being waged primarily on behalf of religious citizenry, if we pick our battles carefully and come to the battlefield beforehand refreshed, they will hasten to it and be exhausted -sun tzu the art of war.

The more mainstream businesses that see the viability of porn as a revenue generator, the more power adult webmasters will posess. When the tentacles of porn are as far reaching as other industries, there will be no recourse for those who wish our demise, they will have to negotiate or say goodbye to the dollars, and who wants to do that?

The question is not if, but when, the tables will be turned. The power gained by adult webmasters as a cohesive orginization will come not through the advocation of laws preventing the abandonement of free speech, but rather, through a carefully planned and methodical operation to financially penetrate as many businesses and industries as possible. There are plenty of industries rife with corruption; how do they get away with it? by generating enough revenue to force their adversaries to contemplate life without them if they are crossed.

That is what we should do.

Financial and business penetration as fast and as far reaching as possible. There are some people who believe that if the cannabis trade were eradicated from western canada that entire industries would shut down almost overnight, why? because many businesses operate primarily on revenue generated by the illegal trade in cannabis. That is an illegal substance, we have many more advantages than them, the basis of our existence depended in the past on 1 single human desire

sex. People have to have it. And that is where the adult webmaster holds the internet community in subservience. If we use it to our advantage we will come out victorious.

walrus · 2006-03-19, 08:29 PM

karomesis, I am impressed (that and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee at the Coffee Bean) as first you quoted Sun Tzu and second that is definately thinking out side the box for a solution. It definately has my simple mind thinking and hopefully will merit some discussion.

karomesis · 2006-03-19, 08:38 PM

thank you for the kind words Walrus.

I just think that picking the battle of morality is a poor choice,as it is highly subjective and includes many variables, but hitting them where it really counts in the wallet will be much more effective in bringing about thier downfall.

Sun Tzu and niccolo machiavelli's teachings have stood the test of time well, it is time they were used to champion our cause.

Chop Smith · 2006-03-19, 08:55 PM

Karomesis, are you from Canada?

karomesis · 2006-03-19, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Karomesis, are you from Canada?

Unfortunately, no. I live in massachusetts.

Bill · 2006-03-22, 08:51 PM

Well, the more I have thought about forming our own webmaster association, the harder if not impossible the idea seems to me.

I just don't see how we can herd these cats. It would be tough enough to get 50 $100 commitments here from the GG&J community. Trying to approach the other communities and getting them to go along just seems like an impossible task. I know for sure I don't have the rep and power to pull off getting even one other board/community to join up, I'm not sure even Greenguy could do it.

Maybe a virtual association of just us GG&J peeps, all withholding our memberships and donations at once, could work. Even that I have my doubts about.

If we could talk one other board into also forming a virtual association, that would be a big achievement.

I think we should put pressure on the FSC and the AFF at the same time, and play them against each other.

tickler · 2006-03-23, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

I just don't see how we can herd these cats.

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/co...ding/?c=&p=104

Sometimes you need to hit refresh if they stick an Ad in.

2006-03-17, 04:48 PM	#1
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Any ideas for a realistic alternative to the Free Speech Coalition? So, it's getting time to put your money where your mouth is. Memberships to the FSC will be up for renewal in a few months. Tons of people signed up because they were all scared about 2257 last year. (Which, by the way, is not the reason I joined, I believed the 2257 attack would fail, but felt that uit was just the beginning of a political crackdown.) Well, there are even more ugly attacks on our industry coming around the corner, that make the bureaucratic sneakiness of the last 2257 debacle look like nothing. For those people who are all pissed off at the FSC I have this question. Who do you propose we ally with instead of the Free Speech Coalition? Don't just bitch and moan, put your candidate on the table.

2006-03-17, 05:55 PM	#2
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Bill, I don't think I remember ever admitting that I was a member of FSC because I hated the way a couple of members of the board was driving their scare tatic, sky falling membership drive. I am a member of FSC and ACLU and will rejoin both. However, neither is going to properly represent the average adult webmaster. IMO, the only way that we will get proper representation is for us to band together, put our money where our mouths are and form a new trade association. __________________

2006-03-17, 07:26 PM	#4
walrus Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: May 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,773	You get what you pay for. As long as we're willing to be treated like a red-headed stepchild and give them our money, they will be only more than happy to oblige. My feeling is that if we showed we were seriously making an attempt to form some type of association...and it began to sprout legs...then the FSC would be willing to put more effort into our causes because while we may not be a major source of revenue....I can't imagine we're chump change either. As far as the FSC...I let my membership expire months ago and have no intention of renewing it. __________________ Naked Girlfriend Porn TGP free partner account

2006-03-17, 09:07 PM	#10
Ms Naughty old enough to be Grandma Scrotum Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 1,408	LOL Walrus The FSC guy said they were re-doing the site and would get back to us. A month is a long time to wait, but I'm hoping they'll turn up and give us an update. __________________ Promote Bright Desire

2006-03-18, 01:07 AM	#11
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Even in the 'something for nothing' society that we live in today, money talks. Form our independent webmasters association and raise some bucks, buy a corporate membership in FSC and negoiate with them to have our own board member. If you band together, you will get their attention. Get 100 webmasters to ante up $100 each. Put the money in the hands of the most respected webmaster that we have and see what the $10,000 will buy. Let me know where you want me to send my contribution. __________________

2006-03-17, 06:19 PM	#3
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Yes, Chop, I think you're right, one of the few clear alternatives would be to try and form our own trade association. It would have a lot of advantages. But, I believe it would be _significantly_ more expensive. Let's say we can get away with $100 to $300 a year each with memberships to the FSC. Staring our own association would probably require closer to a thousand dollars each per year (that's a conservative estimate), if we wanted it to be anything more than a toothless symbol. And the learning curve, learning how to lobby and how to act politically, and how to run it as an organization, could be very steep. It's been tried before and failed spectacularly every time. But, it's definitely a choice that has to be kept on the table and studied closely. --- On another note, I just renewed my membership with the ACLU. $75 well spent.

2006-03-17, 08:51 PM	#8
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Well, I suggest that we have no idea what the FSC could do for us, because so far we've just thrown some cash at them without making any demands. In politics, you aren't taken seriously unless you are a threat. And we haven't threatened the FSC. We need to bust their balls, then measure the response, in order to know wether or not they are of any use to us.

2006-03-18, 03:54 AM	#12
Loganp8000 I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 85	Wow, certainly is an interesting idea. I pay a monthly fee for so many things, I wouldnt mind paying 100 a month for our own trade association. My concern would be if the $$ would be used properly. ALOHA

2006-03-18, 03:53 PM	#13
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Okay, so far, on the table we have two choices. The FSC, and starting our own trade association. (The trade association concept has several variations, but we will lump it together as one thing for now.) Can anyone think of any other alternatives that should be considered? How about the AFF and Paul Cambria? How about a fan association like FOXE?

2006-03-19, 05:21 PM	#14
walrus Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: May 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,773	I can't and judging by the responses so far.... So what's next? Is it time to let this die and accept the status quo or is there enough momentum for some type of movement? __________________ Naked Girlfriend Porn TGP free partner account

2006-03-19, 05:33 PM	#15
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Well, I think it's a bit too early to stop the opinion gathering phase yet. I also think people may be grossly underestimating the amount of work and trouble and expense involved in trying to start a webmaster association. And, trying to start our own association makes the question of "who bells the cat" - that is, who is in charge of the association, and who does the grunt work of the asociation - all the more pressing. Staffing an association is likely to be very tricky.

2006-03-19, 05:58 PM	#16
walrus Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: May 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,773	I've been known to jump the gun, once or twice and I definately appreciate all the work it would take to setup our own association and I believe that there is absolutely very few qualified cats to be belled and because most of them dont want the damn bell it is a pipe dream to think that it would happen anytime in the very near future (or my lifetime for that matter). That having been said, I think Chop's earlier suggestion is a much better idea. Money does talk and if banded together we could use that to possibly affect change at the FSC. But again, who do you trust to collect the $$$ and then go to the FSC and negotiate the basic changes needed to be awarded the cash and who is going to play watchdog to ensure such changes are put in place and to regularly report on progress. __________________ Naked Girlfriend Porn TGP free partner account

2006-03-19, 08:02 PM	#18
karomesis Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: pepperell,Massachusetts. Posts: 264	If I may interject; the war being waged against pornography is being waged primarily on behalf of religious citizenry, if we pick our battles carefully and come to the battlefield beforehand refreshed, they will hasten to it and be exhausted -sun tzu the art of war. The more mainstream businesses that see the viability of porn as a revenue generator, the more power adult webmasters will posess. When the tentacles of porn are as far reaching as other industries, there will be no recourse for those who wish our demise, they will have to negotiate or say goodbye to the dollars, and who wants to do that? The question is not if, but when, the tables will be turned. The power gained by adult webmasters as a cohesive orginization will come not through the advocation of laws preventing the abandonement of free speech, but rather, through a carefully planned and methodical operation to financially penetrate as many businesses and industries as possible. There are plenty of industries rife with corruption; how do they get away with it? by generating enough revenue to force their adversaries to contemplate life without them if they are crossed. That is what we should do. Financial and business penetration as fast and as far reaching as possible. There are some people who believe that if the cannabis trade were eradicated from western canada that entire industries would shut down almost overnight, why? because many businesses operate primarily on revenue generated by the illegal trade in cannabis. That is an illegal substance, we have many more advantages than them, the basis of our existence depended in the past on 1 single human desire sex. People have to have it. And that is where the adult webmaster holds the internet community in subservience. If we use it to our advantage we will come out victorious.

2006-03-19, 08:29 PM	#19
walrus Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: May 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,773	karomesis, I am impressed (that and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee at the Coffee Bean) as first you quoted Sun Tzu and second that is definately thinking out side the box for a solution. It definately has my simple mind thinking and hopefully will merit some discussion. __________________ Naked Girlfriend Porn TGP free partner account

2006-03-19, 08:38 PM	#20
karomesis Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: pepperell,Massachusetts. Posts: 264	thank you for the kind words Walrus. I just think that picking the battle of morality is a poor choice,as it is highly subjective and includes many variables, but hitting them where it really counts in the wallet will be much more effective in bringing about thier downfall. Sun Tzu and niccolo machiavelli's teachings have stood the test of time well, it is time they were used to champion our cause. Last edited by karomesis; 2006-03-19 at 08:45 PM..

2006-03-19, 08:55 PM	#21
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Karomesis, are you from Canada? __________________

2006-03-22, 08:51 PM	#23
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Well, the more I have thought about forming our own webmaster association, the harder if not impossible the idea seems to me. I just don't see how we can herd these cats. It would be tough enough to get 50 $100 commitments here from the GG&J community. Trying to approach the other communities and getting them to go along just seems like an impossible task. I know for sure I don't have the rep and power to pull off getting even one other board/community to join up, I'm not sure even Greenguy could do it. Maybe a virtual association of just us GG&J peeps, all withholding our memberships and donations at once, could work. Even that I have my doubts about. If we could talk one other board into also forming a virtual association, that would be a big achievement. I think we should put pressure on the FSC and the AFF at the same time, and play them against each other.