Why The Chameleon Link List Submitter Might Be A Bad Investment

Greenguy · 2007-08-11, 07:50 AM

From Today's Newsletter

Anyone that knows me from my years on the boards would easily be able to tell you that I don't like autosubmitters. You know the kind - you fill out some info in a program & your site is automatically submitted to X number of Link Lists with the press of a button. The problems with this? Well.....
New rule on the Link List? The Autosubmitter never sees it.
Did the Link List add new recips? Not on the Autosubmitters sites.
12 or so new categories added? The Autosubmitter wouldn't know & your Femdom Strapon site ends up in a general Fetish category.

The lovely people at Chameleon Submitter appear to think that these problems are ok (or at least not their problem once you've purchased your license) They recently released a Link List Submitter & sure enough, even though I was NOT contacted by them, 3 of my Link Lists showed up in their autosubmission database. Now, even if you think it's ok that they did not contact me, I can say that on the rules page for each of the 3 Link Lists, it says "NO AUTOSUBMITTING" Apparently, the Chameleon people don't read the rules pages of the sites they include in their database.

Chameleon has stated that their product does not have to be used as an autosubmitter & that it does have a handy recip link builder incorporated into it. That's all fine & dandy, except the name of the product is not "The Chameleon Recip Builder".

The one thing that might be the worst part of all of this? Money. Chameleon charges $24.95/month to $179/year for their Link List submitter. Does the Link List see any of this? Nope. But that's not what should have you ticked off. Let's say that you paid for this, only to find out that a lot of the Link Lists in their database not only do not accept autosubmissions, but they also blacklist people for using autosubmit programs like this as well as remove all of your existing listings. Do you really want to pay money to have that done to you?

Now don't get me wrong - there are a lot of Link Lists that do not mind being in the database. And even I think that, in the hands of the right people, autosubmitting software has it's benefits & uses. But not everyone out there are the "right" people. Hell, I know some very popular Link Lists that say in public that they do not allow autosubmitters, but behind closed doors, they do allow trusted webmasters to use such programs. I'm not saying I'm one of these people, I'm just saying that I know it happens. Trust me

Bottom line is that people, like webCleo, are getting ripped off by Chameleon Submitter and I personally think it's just plain wrong. I was going to ask for Chameleon to comment on this, but since they didn't ask me if I wanted my Link Lists in their database...

Feel free to discuss.

Simon · 2007-08-11, 09:05 AM

anyone?

MrMaryLou · 2007-08-11, 10:01 AM

I feel the same way I have seen many honest webmasters get burned by programs like this over the years

Viper · 2007-08-11, 11:53 AM

Any tool that can help speed things up and make your time more profitable is a good thing... As you've said yourself, the "right" people will know how to use the tool properly so that it's a good investment.

I also hate auto-submitters because of the "wrong" people. But after having spent some time trying to go thru pages and pages and pages of rules and recips and then trying to make sites adhere to all of that, I can say that having something that would speed up the actual submitting is very benificial.

Between all the LL rules, the competition, the saturation etc. etc. etc., you can't make a living anymore submitting freesites. So it all comes down to getting the best ROI.

LowryBigwood · 2007-08-11, 11:53 AM

Hey Greenie.

I pretty much agree with everything you said here. I do think that it "could be" a helpful tool for some, it's also completely against any list that has the "no autosubmitting" rule. From what I've seen, most of the larger LL's do not want this. So, why take a chance on getting banned?

I will stick with my old fashion style.

Receptor · 2007-08-11, 11:55 AM

Well, the first thing I learned when I joined this board was "Submit manually." I cannot understand why the other webmasters cannot learn that. Oh, yeah ... maybe they should join this forum?

Dunno, investing 30$ per month for a tool in the very beginning of your adult biz career could be a bit fast decision. At least for me.

Cleo · 2007-08-11, 11:59 AM

Mr Spock · 2007-08-11, 01:58 PM

As I see it the problem with investing in Chameleon LL submitter is that their are a limited number of LL that will send you decent traffic - about 40 or so , By shelling out $24.95 you need to generate at least $24.95 by submitting to no's 40 thru to 300 ( No of link lists in the chameleon database - most of these are probably dead/inactive) - unlikely IMO.

I think that an autosubmitter is probably more suited to the TGP market.

ecchi · 2007-08-13, 02:43 AM

Years ago I used a TGP submitter that auto submitted to the minor TGPs, but acted like Roboform for the bigger ones, i.e. it just filled in the form, but left you to check everything, and submit manually. Would this not also be a good idea for Link Lists too? If the link list is new and small, it needs submissions, but it is not worth a site creator's time submitting to it. So an auto submit is good for all. But if a LL is getting a reasonable amount of submits, it does not want to go on the submitter, so the form filler is a better option.

Just one question for Link List owners. When the TGP submitter I mentioned above (sorry, I cannot remember it's name) switched from all-auto to this method, I seem to remember that it was not because it's owners considered this a better method, but because the bigger TGPs had come up with a way to stop auto submitters working on their forms. I cannot remember how they did this (I would guess it was simply a 'copy this code' thing), but would it not be possible to do exactly the same thing on link list forms and stop auto submission dead?

SheepGuy · 2007-08-13, 03:29 AM

People have to email me to submit sites. There's advantages and disadvantages to that.
Disadvantage is I don't have and probably can't use a script, so the list is done by hand and takes more time for me to do. Also, it's a bit of a PITA for submitters.
Big advantages are that I get to know the people who submit to me, which makes reviewing quicker for those I trust and gives me the chance to network on other things with them, bounce ideas off of them, and learn from them. The other one is that I never get autosubmitters, there is no form for them to fill out.
If I get so big that I can't handle all of the submissions coming in, I can always change the email address for trusted submitters, and pick and choose from new submitters at the old address. Or block any submitters who cheat.

I would like to have a decent autosubmitter though for the TGP's that want them. I don't make a lot of galleries, but I don't submit them to a lot of places either, it would be nice to expand that in a quick way, without pissing anyone off by breaking rules.

ecchi · 2007-08-13, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

People have to email me to submit sites. There's advantages and disadvantages to that.

Another disadvantage is in your rule "I no longer send acceptance emails". No one expects a LL webmaster to send acceptance emails (at least no one I know) when they use a form. But using email is different, it is, as you said, more personal. You expect the webmaster to mail you, but you don't mail them back. I know you have as little time to do this as form users (less than some, as some scripts will automatically send an acceptance mail at a click), but saying "you must...but I wont" comes over as "fuck you" when you read it.

shunga · 2007-08-13, 06:05 AM

I don't see a problem with form filling, but, you're right, auto submitting is something to be avoided because submissions essentially become spam otherwise; no care is taken to make sure it complies with rules or is even relevant. What bothered me when using a submitter was the techniques available to get around security features designed to stop auto submitting.

Licker4U · 2007-08-13, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecchi

...No one expects a LL webmaster to send acceptance emails (at least no one I know) when they use a form.

Well now you know one...

I damn sure expect an acceptance e-mail, form or not, (even though some lists don't send them) but I think SheepGuy mentioned in a thread about stopping the acceptance e-mails that he would send a rejection e-mail with a reason. Good enough for me. I know that if I don't hear from him I'm listed. In a backwards way that's as good as an acceptance e-mail. Not all link lists send them but I sure as hell want them. I don't have time to go checking 45 lists that I submit to to see if I'm listed, especially with some running up to a week or more behind in reviews. Of the 45 I submit to about 38 are regulars here at the board and I think they all send acceptance e-mails.

Mr Spock · 2007-08-13, 09:15 AM

Quote:

I would like to have a decent autosubmitter though for the TGP's that want them. I don't make a lot of galleries, but I don't submit them to a lot of places either, it would be nice to expand that in a quick way, without pissing anyone off by breaking rules.

If you are looking for a TGP submitter, I would suggest the Chameleon submitter, their database of TGPs is updated often so you don't have to hunt around for TGPs to submitt to, most of the TGPs are ok with it and you still have the option of manual submit.

SheepGuy · 2007-08-13, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecchi

Another disadvantage is in your rule "I no longer send acceptance emails". No one expects a LL webmaster to send acceptance emails (at least no one I know) when they use a form. But using email is different, it is, as you said, more personal. You expect the webmaster to mail you, but you don't mail them back. I know you have as little time to do this as form users (less than some, as some scripts will automatically send an acceptance mail at a click), but saying "you must...but I wont" comes over as "fuck you" when you read it.

I do send rejection e-mails, and if there is a comment or a question in the submission e-mail I answer it. I found that if I had nothing to say and the site was accepted from a regular submitter, that all I was doing was sending a sort of 6 or 7 word form letter and filling everyone's inbox with junk. So far everyone has said they were cool with that. I think I'll change it so that if you want an acceptance email I'll send one. I certainly didn't mean it to come across as a "fuck you".

LD · 2007-08-13, 03:04 PM

It would be cool if some of the list owners got together and came up with a unified submit form that would allow one form to be completed and submit to multiple list. Not really an autosubmitter per se as we would still have to build recips and match categories, but something to reduce the repetitive input.

Greenguy · 2007-08-13, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

It would be cool if some of the list owners got together and came up with a unified submit form that would allow one form to be completed and submit to multiple list. Not really an autosubmitter per se as we would still have to build recips and match categories, but something to reduce the repetitive input.

That idea comes up every now & then & too many people have different rules & that pretty much always crushes the idea.

You know - one guy allows free hosts, the other doesn't & then they get a lot of submits on free hosts & it's a waste of their time.

NichePass Jen · 2007-08-14, 12:24 PM

I agree that they should follow the rules of any LL or TGP that they have in their database. Otherwise why bother putting out the product when the webmaster is just going to end up getting banned? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but if the webmasters are getting banned at the hands of their software, their sales would go down. *shrugs*

2007-08-11, 07:50 AM	#1
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,929	Why The Chameleon Link List Submitter Might Be A Bad Investment From Today's Newsletter Anyone that knows me from my years on the boards would easily be able to tell you that I don't like autosubmitters. You know the kind - you fill out some info in a program & your site is automatically submitted to X number of Link Lists with the press of a button. The problems with this? Well..... New rule on the Link List? The Autosubmitter never sees it. Did the Link List add new recips? Not on the Autosubmitters sites. 12 or so new categories added? The Autosubmitter wouldn't know & your Femdom Strapon site ends up in a general Fetish category. The lovely people at Chameleon Submitter appear to think that these problems are ok (or at least not their problem once you've purchased your license) They recently released a Link List Submitter & sure enough, even though I was NOT contacted by them, 3 of my Link Lists showed up in their autosubmission database. Now, even if you think it's ok that they did not contact me, I can say that on the rules page for each of the 3 Link Lists, it says "NO AUTOSUBMITTING" Apparently, the Chameleon people don't read the rules pages of the sites they include in their database. Chameleon has stated that their product does not have to be used as an autosubmitter & that it does have a handy recip link builder incorporated into it. That's all fine & dandy, except the name of the product is not "The Chameleon Recip Builder". The one thing that might be the worst part of all of this? Money. Chameleon charges $24.95/month to $179/year for their Link List submitter. Does the Link List see any of this? Nope. But that's not what should have you ticked off. Let's say that you paid for this, only to find out that a lot of the Link Lists in their database not only do not accept autosubmissions, but they also blacklist people for using autosubmit programs like this as well as remove all of your existing listings. Do you really want to pay money to have that done to you? Now don't get me wrong - there are a lot of Link Lists that do not mind being in the database. And even I think that, in the hands of the right people, autosubmitting software has it's benefits & uses. But not everyone out there are the "right" people. Hell, I know some very popular Link Lists that say in public that they do not allow autosubmitters, but behind closed doors, they do allow trusted webmasters to use such programs. I'm not saying I'm one of these people, I'm just saying that I know it happens. Trust me Bottom line is that people, like webCleo, are getting ripped off by Chameleon Submitter and I personally think it's just plain wrong. I was going to ask for Chameleon to comment on this, but since they didn't ask me if I wanted my Link Lists in their database... Feel free to discuss. __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2007-08-11, 09:05 AM	#2
Simon That which does not kill us, will try, try again. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conch Republic Posts: 5,150	anyone? __________________ "If you're happy and you know it, think again." -- Guru Pitka

2007-08-11, 10:01 AM	#3
MrMaryLou i fucking told i type to fucking fast wtf Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 11,247	I feel the same way I have seen many honest webmasters get burned by programs like this over the years __________________ <a href="http://www.greenguysboard.com/onthebench/">Join Me For On The Bench </a>

2007-08-11, 11:53 AM	#5
LowryBigwood Don't get discouraged; it's usually the last key that opens the lock... Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 1,203	Hey Greenie. I pretty much agree with everything you said here. I do think that it "could be" a helpful tool for some, it's also completely against any list that has the "no autosubmitting" rule. From what I've seen, most of the larger LL's do not want this. So, why take a chance on getting banned? I will stick with my old fashion style. __________________ Free Porn Buddy \| Porn Buddy Blog

2007-08-11, 11:55 AM	#6
Receptor Ahhh ... sweet pity. Where would my love life be without it? Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: EU Posts: 208	Well, the first thing I learned when I joined this board was "Submit manually." I cannot understand why the other webmasters cannot learn that. Oh, yeah ... maybe they should join this forum? Dunno, investing 30$ per month for a tool in the very beginning of your adult biz career could be a bit fast decision. At least for me. __________________ I own no porn sites atm.

2007-08-11, 11:53 AM	#4
Viper Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: West Coast, Canada Posts: 98	Any tool that can help speed things up and make your time more profitable is a good thing... As you've said yourself, the "right" people will know how to use the tool properly so that it's a good investment. I also hate auto-submitters because of the "wrong" people. But after having spent some time trying to go thru pages and pages and pages of rules and recips and then trying to make sites adhere to all of that, I can say that having something that would speed up the actual submitting is very benificial. Between all the LL rules, the competition, the saturation etc. etc. etc., you can't make a living anymore submitting freesites. So it all comes down to getting the best ROI.

2007-08-11, 11:59 AM	#7
Cleo Subversive filth of the hedonistic decadent West Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 27,936	__________________ Free Rides on Uber and Lyft Uber Car: uberTzTerri Lyft Car: TZ896289

2007-08-11, 01:58 PM	#8
Mr Spock You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vulcan Posts: 695	As I see it the problem with investing in Chameleon LL submitter is that their are a limited number of LL that will send you decent traffic - about 40 or so , By shelling out $24.95 you need to generate at least $24.95 by submitting to no's 40 thru to 300 ( No of link lists in the chameleon database - most of these are probably dead/inactive) - unlikely IMO. I think that an autosubmitter is probably more suited to the TGP market.

2007-08-13, 02:43 AM	#9
ecchi Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: About to be evicted!!!! Posts: 4,082	Years ago I used a TGP submitter that auto submitted to the minor TGPs, but acted like Roboform for the bigger ones, i.e. it just filled in the form, but left you to check everything, and submit manually. Would this not also be a good idea for Link Lists too? If the link list is new and small, it needs submissions, but it is not worth a site creator's time submitting to it. So an auto submit is good for all. But if a LL is getting a reasonable amount of submits, it does not want to go on the submitter, so the form filler is a better option. Just one question for Link List owners. When the TGP submitter I mentioned above (sorry, I cannot remember it's name) switched from all-auto to this method, I seem to remember that it was not because it's owners considered this a better method, but because the bigger TGPs had come up with a way to stop auto submitters working on their forms. I cannot remember how they did this (I would guess it was simply a 'copy this code' thing), but would it not be possible to do exactly the same thing on link list forms and stop auto submission dead?

2007-08-13, 03:29 AM	#10
SheepGuy It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,527	People have to email me to submit sites. There's advantages and disadvantages to that. Disadvantage is I don't have and probably can't use a script, so the list is done by hand and takes more time for me to do. Also, it's a bit of a PITA for submitters. Big advantages are that I get to know the people who submit to me, which makes reviewing quicker for those I trust and gives me the chance to network on other things with them, bounce ideas off of them, and learn from them. The other one is that I never get autosubmitters, there is no form for them to fill out. If I get so big that I can't handle all of the submissions coming in, I can always change the email address for trusted submitters, and pick and choose from new submitters at the old address. Or block any submitters who cheat. I would like to have a decent autosubmitter though for the TGP's that want them. I don't make a lot of galleries, but I don't submit them to a lot of places either, it would be nice to expand that in a quick way, without pissing anyone off by breaking rules. __________________ If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now.

2007-08-13, 06:05 AM	#12
shunga Operator! Give me the number for 911! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Loveland Posts: 131	I don't see a problem with form filling, but, you're right, auto submitting is something to be avoided because submissions essentially become spam otherwise; no care is taken to make sure it complies with rules or is even relevant. What bothered me when using a submitter was the techniques available to get around security features designed to stop auto submitting. __________________ Got an Asian site? ICQ: 355-26-288

2007-08-13, 03:04 PM	#16
LD wtfwjd? Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,103	It would be cool if some of the list owners got together and came up with a unified submit form that would allow one form to be completed and submit to multiple list. Not really an autosubmitter per se as we would still have to build recips and match categories, but something to reduce the repetitive input. __________________ Artisteer Wordpress Theme Generator Create Custom Themes! My Little Network

2007-08-14, 12:24 PM	#18
NichePass Jen Aw, Dad, you've done a lot of great things, but you're a very old man, and old people are useless Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 21	I agree that they should follow the rules of any LL or TGP that they have in their database. Otherwise why bother putting out the product when the webmaster is just going to end up getting banned? It seems like a no-brainer to me, but if the webmasters are getting banned at the hands of their software, their sales would go down. shrugs __________________ NichePass.com: 350+ sites, 4000+ promo tools, $50 per trials Sign Up Now!