question.......

[stuveltje]

if somebody autosubmit they dont noticed they are on the blacklist of that linksite am i right?

[stuveltje]

Could be an stupid question, but i started to doubt myself after i noticed that some people hanging here on the board are blacklisted for already more then a week, and they submit everyday and they still didnt noticed that they are blacklisted (and yes the blacklist is working) could only mean one thing for me...they are autosubmitting

[stuveltje]

now fuck nobody can answer this one for me???? oke then i know what to do and yeah they are not only blacklisted at those *** sites but also at the other i do.....Stu<----getting tired to talk to herself ##@##$$$$

[RawAlex]

Just accept that there are people out there who are using less than honest methods to submit.

That is why most of us don't mention anything when they are blacklisted or blocked. Some people actually just give them the same result page for their submit and don't say a word.

It's all in how you look at it.

[stuveltje]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Just accept that there are people out there who are using less than honest methods to submit.

That is why most of us don't mention anything when they are blacklisted or blocked. Some people actually just give them the same result page for their submit and don't say a word.

It's all in how you look at it.

i know Raw alex,. but i expected some more honesty from free site submitters who hang around here who are fucking blacklisted.....goddamnnnn this makes me in an very very bad mood, not at you raw alex, just the ones who hang around here and ackd like an honest webmaster, try this blacklist every submitter you have and i mean all ( and those are alot at some linksite i do) and watch who will responde, so say i blacklisted about 250 people and on this moment after an week only 11 people reponde, thats fucking bad, so it seems some are not like they say they are and i am talking about people who hang around here and at ans..nice..NOT

[Jel]

Don't know for sure stu but you'd think they would see the 'you are blacklisted page'.

[stuveltje]

Originally Posted by Jel

Don't know for sure stu but you'd think they would see the 'you are blacklisted page'.

hya jel well you would think that yes, but believe me they can ask now the ones who submit everyday, they will stay on that fucking blacklist, even if they where the queen lol, and yeah i am in an bad mood doohhhhh |shocking|

[ecchi]

If you have a problem with auto submits and don't want to use a "type this number" type of thing, then change the name of the "title" field occasionally (eg instead of "title" use "title 2" etc.), then set your script to junk all submissions without an entry in that field. You won't even see the auto submissions.

Or if you do not have the ability to change your script, just move the submit page to a different page and put a "click here to submit" button on your old page. "Real" webmasters will see the link and go to the new page, but auto-submitters won't.

[Lemmy]

I recently deleted my blacklist records (I only had about 30 or so) due to innocent submitters being caught in the IP range.

Waddaya know, the second the ban was lifted the same crappy shit started coming again. Apparently these idiots just keep submitting never even knowing they've been BL'd. I ban by domain now.

[ecchi]

You blacklisted entire IPs when one person on that IP is bad ???? Hell I thought that went out somewhere about the time we discovered fire !

The worst part about your situation is that many of your banned submitters will not even have known that they were banned (blanket auto-submit), whereas a lot of honest submitters who got blocked because they share IP's with crooks will be aware that you blocked them, and if their submission did not break your rules and contained a recip, many will have put you on their blacklist as a cheating webmaster.

And the few genuinely cheating webmasters who are aware you banned their IP will have simply switched IP.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by ecchi

You blacklisted entire IPs when one person on that IP is bad ???? Hell I thought that went out somewhere about the time we discovered fire !

The worst part about your situation is that many of your banned submitters will not even have known that they were banned (blanket auto-submit), whereas a lot of honest submitters who got blocked because they share IP's with crooks will be aware that you blocked them, and if their submission did not break your rules and contained a recip, many will have put you on their blacklist as a cheating webmaster.

And the few genuinely cheating webmasters who are aware you banned their IP will have simply switched IP.

What can I say, there's a learning curve to running a LL.

I'm not too worried about webmasters being unfairly caught up in the mess. The honest ones will no doubt contact me to ask what the deal is (exactly what happened). I guess cheaters are just a part of this business that we'll have to live with.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by ecchi

You blacklisted entire IPs when one person on that IP is bad ???? Hell I thought that went out somewhere about the time we discovered fire !

The worst part about your situation is that many of your banned submitters will not even have known that they were banned (blanket auto-submit), whereas a lot of honest submitters who got blocked because they share IP's with crooks will be aware that you blocked them, and if their submission did not break your rules and contained a recip, many will have put you on their blacklist as a cheating webmaster.

And the few genuinely cheating webmasters who are aware you banned their IP will have simply switched IP.

While I won't say what IPs I have blocked, I can tell you that I have many CLASS Cs blocked, and even 1 class B (255.255.X.X) just to keep the autosumitting pieces of shit from dragging my server down and wasting my time.

I feel sorry for the 1 honest webmaster in trashcanistan that can't submit. For him I am so sorry.

Alex

[ecchi]

RE: "The honest ones will no doubt contact me to ask what the deal is " Not usually, there are so many bad webmasters out there that it is not worth the effort. A few will contact you, some will ignore you, others will just put you on a blacklist. (I was once given the following figures by a webmaster on another board, I have no idea how accurate they are, but no one else on the board contradicted him: For every one person who complain, you can assume ten do not. Nine of these will just never do business with you again, the tenth will tell all his friends that you are a cheater.)

[Linkster]

Thats the nice thing about some LL scripts - once we ban them they still get the "thank you" page so they think it went through - although it really got trashed - and we never have to see it. And believe me there are hundreds of submits that go in the trash every day

[ecchi]

Not a good idea. If you ban someone and tell them, at least they know they are banned, even if they don't agree with you or think you are being unfair. But if they put up your recip, get your "thank you" page, but get no traffic back from you, they are automatically going to assume you are a traffic thief and a cheater. And the odds are that they will tell other people this.

[Rick J]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Not a good idea. If you ban someone and tell them, at least they know they are banned, even if they don't agree with you or think you are being unfair. But if they put up your recip, get your "thank you" page, but get no traffic back from you, they are automatically going to assume you are a traffic thief and a cheater. And the odds are that they will tell other people this.

Good point actually.

[Linkster]

ecchi - no disrespect here - but when you have people submitting hundreds of sites a day with an autosubmitter - do you really think that you would have time to send them and email to let them know?
and the argument that anyone is getting backlinks and traffic doesnt fly - but then only LL owners would understand that as we know what really counts towards backlinks and what type of traffic we get from recips - and I can tell you honestly - a submit that is banned here is probably banned everywhere - so backlinks dont count anymore - and traffic wont happen as no other LLs are listing it - but even if they did the traffic from a recip is usually in the range of 1 hit every 10 days or so - not something that really counts in the grand scheme of things
More importantly - and I guess this just goes back to old school stuff that Im used to - when I was submitting to LLs - I would go check my stats - and if a site didnt list me I would stop submitting.
And if they are using an autosubmitter or doing something else that breaks the rules - should I really care what happens to their site?

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by Linkster

More importantly - and I guess this just goes back to old school stuff that Im used to - when I was submitting to LLs - I would go check my stats - and if a site didnt list me I would stop submitting.

Fair enough, but what about sites that take weeks or months to approve a submission? Only the other day one of my sites that I submitted several months ago was approved on a list that I'd taken out of my submit table for exactly that reason.

Seems to me that if LLs don't tell someone they're blacklisted they're bound to keep on submitting, at least for a while - how are they to know that the list doesn't have a huge backlog, or they simply don't like the most recent submissions or...

Of course, cheaters must be a HUGE pain in the ass for LL owners, and I'm in favour of blacklisting every last one of em. But it seems a little unfair to do it in secret, lest other submitters become unwittingly caught in the net.

Rob.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by ecchi

RE: "The honest ones will no doubt contact me to ask what the deal is " Not usually, there are so many bad webmasters out there that it is not worth the effort. A few will contact you, some will ignore you, others will just put you on a blacklist. (I was once given the following figures by a webmaster on another board, I have no idea how accurate they are, but no one else on the board contradicted him: For every one person who complain, you can assume ten do not. Nine of these will just never do business with you again, the tenth will tell all his friends that you are a cheater.)

I disagree. Any honest webmaster who feels he is unfairly blacklisted will contact the LL owner to ask why. Any honest LL owner will seek to rectify an injustice. I know this business a lot better from the submitters point of view than I do the LL owner's, so I know what it's like.

Also see how quick people are to beg for un-blacklisting here on the board, whether they did something to deserve it or not.

As for getting a reputation for being a cheating webmaster, well, count the threads here outing cheating LL owners vs cheating submitters.

[RobUK]

Might well be a logical solution, at that. But I suspect that too will come with its own problems - it's fine only accepting submissions from folks who've submitted before, who you trust, who can show a history etc. But what about new submitters who don't have a history yet? How will they get at history under those conditions? I suppose they could be given a probationary partnership to see how it goes, but that might be a PITA for the LL owners to administer?

Rob.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Might well be a logical solution, at that. But I suspect that too will come with its own problems - it's fine only accepting submissions from folks who've submitted before, who you trust, who can show a history etc. But what about new submitters who don't have a history yet? How will they get at history under those conditions? I suppose they could be given a probationary partnership to see how it goes, but that might be a PITA for the LL owners to administer?

Rob.

I give out partners to people I know from their submits, they have a history.

I also give temporary partners to people I don't know, who haven't submitted to me before. If they submit garbage time after time they get dropped. It's not difficult to revoke a partnership. On the other hand it's just as easy to demonstrate your ability to follow the rules and be upgraded to a full partner.

The big difference is I require real emails and real domains. When people give out their real info they are less inclined to cheat.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by RobUK

But I suspect that too will come with its own problems - it's fine only accepting submissions from folks who've submitted before, who you trust, who can show a history etc. But what about new submitters who don't have a history yet? How will they get at history under those conditions? I suppose they could be given a probationary partnership to see how it goes,

I guess thats a part of it I should have posted - I only take partner submits and all of these autosubmitters dont even look at that rule - and I do tell them the way they can become a partner - and its very simple - but I still get hundreds a day that dont bother reading the rules

[ecchi]

The important point everyone seems to be missing here is that I am NOT saying "you should do this to be fair to your submitter" I am saying "you should do this to be fair to YOURSELF". The bottom line is: If you blacklist ANYONE who sticks to your rules, word will get round that you are a cheater (even if it is not your intention to cheat people). Not only will this reduce submissions, but most webmasters have friends who are not webmasters, but who surf for porn (i.e. your customers), and they will be telling these friends that you are a cheater too ("I wouldn't use that site if I were you, the guy who runs it cheats webmasters, and if he cheats webmasters he is going to seriously rip off surfers"). Those friends are also going to tell their friends, and because the original information came from a "webmaster" it is going to be taken even more seriously (inside info).

You don't really think people like Greenguy and Tommy became big by pissing people off do you? They got where they are because people (both webmasters and surfers) trust and respect them.

And before someone posts something like "I make a couple of thousand dollars a week and I ban IPs", think how much you would be making if you were more "submitter friendly". Probably well over ten grand a week.

RE: "do you really think that you would have time to send them and email to let them know?" I was actually referring to the fact that you automatically send them to a "thank you" page rather than to a "Sorry your submission is refused, please re-read the rules" page. However since you bring up emails, you should not have to send them an email. Any halfway decent script will automatically send out the emails when it junks the submission.

RE: "Any honest webmaster who feels he is unfairly blacklisted will contact the LL owner to ask why" I am guessing that you do not have many friends who are serious LL or TGP submitters, or you would not be saying this. Get talking to a few of your submitters, ask them if this is so, you will soon find that you are very wrong.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ecchi

The important point everyone seems to be missing here is that I am NOT saying "you should do this to be fair to your submitter" I am saying "you should do this to be fair to YOURSELF". The bottom line is: If you blacklist ANYONE who sticks to your rules, word will get round that you are a cheater (even if it is not your intention to cheat people). Not only will this reduce submissions, but most webmasters have friends who are not webmasters, but who surf for porn (i.e. your customers), and they will be telling these friends that you are a cheater too ("I wouldn't use that site if I were you, the guy who runs it cheats webmasters, and if he cheats webmasters he is going to seriously rip off surfers"). Those friends are also going to tell their friends, and because the original information came from a "webmaster" it is going to be taken even more seriously (inside info).

I think you've lost your mind.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ecchi

And before someone posts something like "I make a couple of thousand dollars a week and I ban IPs", think how much you would be making if you were more "submitter friendly". Probably well over ten grand a week.

Yup, you've lost your mind.