dates of depictions-2257

LindaMight · 2005-06-28, 11:22 AM

Yes I know, ask my lawyer...and I will...but can anyone fathom a guess as to what this means?

"Sec. 75.6 Statement describing location of books and records....
(b) Every statement shall contain:
1....
2 The date of production, manufacture, publication, duplication, reproduction or reissuance of the matter.....
(c),,,,
(d) The information contained in the statement must be accurate as of the date on which the book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally or computer-manipulated image, digital image, picture or other matter is produced or reproduced.

Dates? Of the statement? Of the images? There should be dates on the 2257 compliance statement? I have everything documented but am confused as to what this date statement means.

Thanks!
Linda

Cleo · 2005-06-28, 11:29 AM

There had to have been a quantum clock in all of the pics showing both the relative time in relationship to the velocity of the matter that was imaged.

Chop Smith · 2005-06-28, 11:55 AM

From DOJ's comments: "Given the statute's purpose of protecting minors against sexual exploitation, with respect to primary producers, clearly the date of production is the most pertinent because it will reflect the youngest age of the performer involved. Secondary producers should list whichever date or dates are relevant to their conduct."

LindaMight · 2005-06-28, 01:04 PM

Oh brother.....at any given time of pictures....we are all over 40! My copyright logo on the pictures clearly shows the year right on the image with the exception of those produced in 05. Is the year good enough? I suspect the verbage doesn't spell it out, either that or I am just not grasping what I am reading. UGH

RawAlex · 2005-06-28, 01:18 PM

Typically for videos we need the actual production date. If you shot digital images, go check the original pictures for the date of creation.

Alex

MadMax · 2005-06-28, 01:28 PM

For date of production on the pics I just use the model release date. Since I have the release on file it's verifiable. For date of publication, my compliance statements say that since by it's very nature a website is always changing, so there is no fixed production date for a website. In my records I record when I first put the pages I'm keeping a given record for live.

RawAlex · 2005-06-28, 01:40 PM

Linda, technically you need two dates.

As the primary producer (the one who made the content) you need the date of production.

As the secondary producer (running the website) you need the date of publication.

Good fun, no?

Alex

Chop Smith · 2005-06-28, 02:16 PM

Alex, I am sure you are correct and I know that little common sense has been applied to these regs. But since the stated purpose is to protect minors against sexual exploitation, the date the images were produced is the relevant date. What is the importance of the date the images were placed on the web.

MadMax · 2005-06-28, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Alex, I am sure you are correct and I know that little common sense has been applied to thes regs. But since the stated purpose is to protect minors against sexual exploitation, the date the images were produced is the relevant date. What is the importance of the date the images were placed on the web.

No relevance at all. For me I keep the second date as a CYA maneuver since the regs are so unclear as to "date of publication" in regards to websites.

Chop Smith · 2005-06-28, 02:37 PM

I subscribe to the CYA theory. Perhaps, there is a need for me to make a change in my record keeping

LindaMight · 2005-06-28, 08:53 PM

The date of production is easy...it's the actual date of my updates. Two dates is nuts .. but I see where you are coming from.....and I agree.

RawAlex · 2005-06-28, 11:23 PM

Chop, the trick is that you have to seperate the PRIMARY PRODUCER job from the SECONDARY PRODUCER job. You have to examine each one as a job into itself.

The primary makes content. It has a production date. The content is given to the secondary producer. Maybe the publish it today, maybe they publish it in 2 years. That is a different date, and that is the date that is important to the secondary producer. Not to prove the age of the model, but to prove when it was used.

It's two different gigs.

Alex

Chop Smith · 2005-06-28, 11:46 PM

Like many other parts of these regs, it sucks. What is the logical reason to prove when the images were used if the model is proved to be legal at the time the images were taken? Just one more thing to adjust for until the 'secondary producer' crap is struck down in the courts.

RawAlex · 2005-06-28, 11:48 PM

It's a match the record thing. I think they want to make sure that images are not published BEFORE their apparent production dates... because if you found a model underage, you coudl just sit on the info for a year and then quietly change the "production date" to be the new date. But if someone used it in the mean time... well...

Alex

Chop Smith · 2005-06-28, 11:50 PM

Now that does make sense. So the 'secondary' is keeping the 'primary' honest.

RawAlex · 2005-06-28, 11:57 PM

Yup. We are all looking at each other. Effectively, it creates a chain of possession that, if the dates don't match up for whatever reason, would raise the red flag.

Then it would be off to the primary procuder's books to find the payments and such made for the shoot.

No end of fun.

Alex

2005-06-28, 11:22 AM	#1
LindaMight Oh! I haven't changed since high school and suddenly I am uncool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Up there and down here Posts: 258	dates of depictions-2257 Yes I know, ask my lawyer...and I will...but can anyone fathom a guess as to what this means? "Sec. 75.6 Statement describing location of books and records.... (b) Every statement shall contain: 1.... 2 The date of production, manufacture, publication, duplication, reproduction or reissuance of the matter..... (c),,,, (d) The information contained in the statement must be accurate as of the date on which the book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape, digitally or computer-manipulated image, digital image, picture or other matter is produced or reproduced. Dates? Of the statement? Of the images? There should be dates on the 2257 compliance statement? I have everything documented but am confused as to what this date statement means. Thanks! Linda __________________ The Woman with a Surprise

2005-06-28, 11:29 AM	#2
Cleo Subversive filth of the hedonistic decadent West Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 27,936	There had to have been a quantum clock in all of the pics showing both the relative time in relationship to the velocity of the matter that was imaged. __________________ Free Rides on Uber and Lyft Uber Car: uberTzTerri Lyft Car: TZ896289

2005-06-28, 11:55 AM	#3
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	From DOJ's comments: "Given the statute's purpose of protecting minors against sexual exploitation, with respect to primary producers, clearly the date of production is the most pertinent because it will reflect the youngest age of the performer involved. Secondary producers should list whichever date or dates are relevant to their conduct." __________________

2005-06-28, 01:04 PM	#4
LindaMight Oh! I haven't changed since high school and suddenly I am uncool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Up there and down here Posts: 258	Oh brother.....at any given time of pictures....we are all over 40! My copyright logo on the pictures clearly shows the year right on the image with the exception of those produced in 05. Is the year good enough? I suspect the verbage doesn't spell it out, either that or I am just not grasping what I am reading. UGH __________________ The Woman with a Surprise

2005-06-28, 02:16 PM	#8
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Alex, I am sure you are correct and I know that little common sense has been applied to these regs. But since the stated purpose is to protect minors against sexual exploitation, the date the images were produced is the relevant date. What is the importance of the date the images were placed on the web. __________________

2005-06-28, 01:18 PM	#5
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Typically for videos we need the actual production date. If you shot digital images, go check the original pictures for the date of creation. Alex

2005-06-28, 01:28 PM	#6
MadMax "Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes" ~ Satan Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Motor City, baby, where carjacking was invented! Now GIMME THOSE SHOES! Posts: 2,385	For date of production on the pics I just use the model release date. Since I have the release on file it's verifiable. For date of publication, my compliance statements say that since by it's very nature a website is always changing, so there is no fixed production date for a website. In my records I record when I first put the pages I'm keeping a given record for live.

2005-06-28, 01:40 PM	#7
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Linda, technically you need two dates. As the primary producer (the one who made the content) you need the date of production. As the secondary producer (running the website) you need the date of publication. Good fun, no? Alex

2005-06-28, 02:37 PM	#10
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	I subscribe to the CYA theory. Perhaps, there is a need for me to make a change in my record keeping __________________

2005-06-28, 08:53 PM	#11
LindaMight Oh! I haven't changed since high school and suddenly I am uncool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Up there and down here Posts: 258	The date of production is easy...it's the actual date of my updates. Two dates is nuts .. but I see where you are coming from.....and I agree. __________________ The Woman with a Surprise

2005-06-28, 11:23 PM	#12
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Chop, the trick is that you have to seperate the PRIMARY PRODUCER job from the SECONDARY PRODUCER job. You have to examine each one as a job into itself. The primary makes content. It has a production date. The content is given to the secondary producer. Maybe the publish it today, maybe they publish it in 2 years. That is a different date, and that is the date that is important to the secondary producer. Not to prove the age of the model, but to prove when it was used. It's two different gigs. Alex

2005-06-28, 11:46 PM	#13
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Like many other parts of these regs, it sucks. What is the logical reason to prove when the images were used if the model is proved to be legal at the time the images were taken? Just one more thing to adjust for until the 'secondary producer' crap is struck down in the courts. __________________

2005-06-28, 11:48 PM	#14
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	It's a match the record thing. I think they want to make sure that images are not published BEFORE their apparent production dates... because if you found a model underage, you coudl just sit on the info for a year and then quietly change the "production date" to be the new date. But if someone used it in the mean time... well... Alex

2005-06-28, 11:50 PM	#15
Chop Smith Eighteen 'til I Die Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,168	Now that does make sense. So the 'secondary' is keeping the 'primary' honest. __________________

2005-06-28, 11:57 PM	#16
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	Yup. We are all looking at each other. Effectively, it creates a chain of possession that, if the dates don't match up for whatever reason, would raise the red flag. Then it would be off to the primary procuder's books to find the payments and such made for the shoot. No end of fun. Alex