Building a relationship with reviewers

[Useless]

I'm noticing more and more submitters are so busy cranking out free sites that they just seem to ignore the fact that a great many of their sites are getting tossed instantly into the trash. It seems like such a wasted effort, like going down on a dead a chick. Lick all night, but she's not going to cum. She might fart, but definately won't cum.

If you get rejection emails from link lists <shameless plug> like mine </shameless plug> that tell you to come HERE and inquire why you've been rejected, why not ask? Hell, why waste the effort of submitting if you don't care whether or not your sites are listed? No one is going to bite you. Might call you a rotten cocksucker, but no teeth will be bared.

Establishing contact with reviewers who reject your sites is the best thing you can do if you plan on regularly submitting free sites. For one, those of us who reject your sites may be expecting a level of quality that may be higher than other lists. If you can find out what is flawed in your sites, you will begin to build better sites that are more widely accepted. Secondly, you may be making some major mistakes and don't even realize it. Plus, when we know WHO you are, we have been known to let the minor things slide. Just show us that you care about what you do.

I know what you're saying right now. You're saying, "fuck you and fuck Earl too." Well, first of all, that hurts. Now you've gone and made Earl get all teary-eyed. You bastard.

You should think of the smaller link lists as a litmus test. If we don't accept your sites, what makes you think that the big boys and girls will let you play in their reindeer games? I know, I know, some smaller/newer lists have some pretty fucked-up rules. Don't submit to them. Okay? Generally speaking though, we all pretty much run under the same guidelines and look for the same things. So if you get a rejection notice - ask. After you ignore a few rejections, it becomes so much easier to just blacklist you. No one wants that. Well, Earl wants to blacklist you, but that's only because you hurt his feelings. You bastard.

[koalat]

I like getting accept/reject emails just for that reason. It helps to learn where your weaknesses are and make improvements, or at least focus on that one additional area that you may have been overlooking.

Being able to ask the reviewer of the site in a forum is helpful too, as you get to see what other people's mistakes are and learn from them as well.

Unfortunately not many places send the emails, as it seems far too many people ignore them completely...

[ponygirl]

WELL SAID, UW! (well, I dunno about the dead chick part - who's gonna go down on a farting dead chick? eeeewwwwww )

I stopped sending out reject e-mails for that very reason, unless it is someone I know. It seems like there's a free site factory somewhere churning out this stuff every day & no one cares if it's listed or not. Oh well, their loss. Today's little guy is tomorrow's player, just remember that

Ponygirl

[Mattinblack]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

WELL SAID, UW! It seems like there's a free site factory somewhere churning out this stuff every day
Ponygirl

Yeah you are right. Somebody emailed me when I first re-entered adult a few months ago offering me a PC based program where you throw pictures, text, links, a recip table and sponsor code into a set of niched directories and out pops as many different (randomised!~) free sites as you like plus a tgp linking to all of em as well. My guess was that the output would be 100% crap so I never sent him his 49.99.

[Talleyrand]

Hi UW

Very interesting your thread.

I do not know what are thinking other webmasters, but my opinion is the following:

My sites normally had been linked by 80 or 90% of the ll that I submitted that are all major ll. (I only submit to 12 or 16 ll, and I have not doorways).

THEN, I think: if these major ll had linked my site the problem is not an error in my site, the problem is that the ll that had not linked my site had a lot of sites submitted and obviously had to reject a lot of them. Because of I dont care about it.

I think that the time that I losted with that ll will no come again: only one site for day.

Also, one thing is that someone will insult you in front of all the people of the board, and another thing is that the same person will insult you in an email.

After the insult in the board, if you will defence yourself, other will insult you too in defence of who had insulted you in first time, because they are friends, may be because there is a clear syndicalized procedure of ll owners.

I only posted for sites rejected for 2 ll, and I think that it was a big bad mistake that I do not want to repeat.



Talleyrand

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I'm noticing more and more submitters are so busy cranking out free sites that they just seem to ignore the fact that a great many of their sites are getting tossed instantly into the trash. It seems like such a wasted effort, like going down on a dead a chick. Lick all night, but she's not going to cum. She might fart, but definately won't cum.

If you get rejection emails from link lists <shameless plug> like mine </shameless plug> that tell you to come HERE and inquire why you've been rejected, why not ask? Hell, why waste the effort of submitting if you don't care whether or not your sites are listed? No one is going to bite you. Might call you a rotten cocksucker, but no teeth will be bared.

Establishing contact with reviewers who reject your sites is the best thing you can do if you plan on regularly submitting free sites. For one, those of us who reject your sites may be expecting a level of quality that may be higher than other lists. If you can find out what is flawed in your sites, you will begin to build better sites that are more widely accepted. Secondly, you may be making some major mistakes and don't even realize it. Plus, when we know WHO you are, we have been known to let the minor things slide. Just show us that you care about what you do.

I know what you're saying right now. You're saying, "fuck you and fuck Earl too." Well, first of all, that hurts. Now you've gone and made Earl get all teary-eyed. You bastard.

You should think of the smaller link lists as a litmus test. If we don't accept your sites, what makes you think that the big boys and girls will let you play in their reindeer games? I know, I know, some smaller/newer lists have some pretty fucked-up rules. Don't submit to them. Okay? Generally speaking though, we all pretty much run under the same guidelines and look for the same things. So if you get a rejection notice - ask. After you ignore a few rejections, it becomes so much easier to just blacklist you. No one wants that. Well, Earl wants to blacklist you, but that's only because you hurt his feelings. You bastard.

[weirdharold]

accept/reject emails are one thing I really miss as most LL don't bother with them anymore, especially the reject emails. Useless it is good to know you still go to all the trouble.

[Surfn]

I don't send either accepted or rejected emails. However, the link to this board is there and my appeal to anyone with questions to ask them here.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by weirdharold

Useless it is good to know you still go to all the trouble.

It's no trouble at all. I have three options when reviewing: accept, reject silently, reject and notify. I hardly ever reject silently. That's for special situations. I sometimes write a little note during rejection, but many times the problem can't be summed up in just a few words, so I leave the comment area blank. But, my rejection emails do give the recipient a link to the specific thread where they can post inquiries. On the board, I respond pleasantly and honestly and so does the submitter. We can all get nasty behind closed doors. Hence, no replies to emails.

I have no qualms with lists that choose not let you know if you have been listed, but I know that it's a big pain in the ass to go searching to see if your sites are listed. I can't say much about other site's policies without stepping on anyone's fat little piggies, so I'll shut up about that.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

If you can find out what is flawed in your sites, you will begin to build better sites that are more widely accepted. Secondly, you may be making some major mistakes and don't even realize it. Plus, when we know WHO you are, we have been known to let the minor things slide. Just show us that you care about what you do.

I feel that bears repeating.

But again, 90%+ submitters to my site set my notification's to off, so either they can't figure out to click the button that says set it to on or they don't care to hear why the sites been rejected.

And as a couple of builder's out there know, if they build good honest free sites and make a mistake, most of the time I'll email them to ask them to change the bad link or whatnot and leave it in pending rather then reject it outright.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Preacher

...as a couple of builder's out there know, if they build good honest free sites and make a mistake, most of the time I'll email them to ask them to change the bad link or whatnot and leave it in pending rather then reject it outright.

Ditto

[juggernaut]

Originally Posted by Preacher

I feel that bears repeating.

But again, 90%+ submitters to my site set my notification's to off, so either they can't figure out to click the button that says set it to on or they don't care to hear why the sites been rejected.

And as a couple of builder's out there know, if they build good honest free sites and make a mistake, most of the time I'll email them to ask them to change the bad link or whatnot and leave it in pending rather then reject it outright.

I will honestly say out of all the LL I submit to I love your account section the best. It provides me with more then enough info about my submitted sites and their status. Just a sweet script you have there.
Now for me when I get a rejection (not many but there are a few) I have to be worried about asking why on this board. Here's my take on it. I submit a site to 20 LL, I get listed on a few with in the first day or so. Next day I get a rejection. I don't think it's wise for me to advertise that someone rejected me before I get all my mails back or at least run through my checks to see out of the 20 which ones have listed me. I do not want to give any other LL owner ideas from someone else. I mean if someone comes here and asks GG why they did not get listed an he puts up his answer. How many LL owners go back and check their site for that persons submit and how many don't take the next submit from that person or look way to hard at the page before approving? Just my toughts, 1 or 2 rejections is worth forgetting about. I email back the WM and ask what the issue is and then go an fix it. But honestly I dont think it's to smart to advertise you are not getting listed for a few sites. Now if you are constantly being rejected by everyone then you need to post and find out what you are doing wrong.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I will honestly say out of all the LL I submit to I love your account section the best. It provides me with more then enough info about my submitted sites and their status. Just a sweet script you have there.
Now for me when I get a rejection (not many but there are a few) I have to be worried about asking why on this board. Here's my take on it. I submit a site to 20 LL, I get listed on a few with in the first day or so. Next day I get a rejection. I don't think it's wise for me to advertise that someone rejected me before I get all my mails back or at least run through my checks to see out of the 20 which ones have listed me. I do not want to give any other LL owner ideas from someone else. I mean if someone comes here and asks GG why they did not get listed an he puts up his answer. How many LL owners go back and check their site for that persons submit and how many don't take the next submit from that person or look way to hard at the page before approving? Just my toughts, 1 or 2 rejections is worth forgetting about. I email back the WM and ask what the issue is and then go an fix it. But honestly I dont think it's to smart to advertise you are not getting listed for a few sites. Now if you are constantly being rejected by everyone then you need to post and find out what you are doing wrong.

I think you're being a bit paranoid here Jugg

Using GG as an example, he lists some sites that I don't, I list some sites that he doesn't. We've got different rules and standards on some things...so although it's entirely possible (and common) for submitters to build free sites that pretty much everyone will list, there are exceptions to that too. For example, GG won't list anything with vid caps. I will list sites with HIGH QUALITY vid caps, but they've got to be good enough to be above my personal standards

Personally, I rarely read the "why wasn't this listed" threads except for my own, and I know quite a few others do the same thing. I trust in my own judgement while reviewing, so I don't second guess myself just because someone else declines a site

[Useless]

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I mean if someone comes here and asks GG why they did not get listed an he puts up his answer. How many LL owners go back and check their site for that persons submit and how many don't take the next submit from that person or look way to hard at the page before approving?

Now, if someone asks why they are blacklisted at the big sites, I do take a look just to see if it's something I blacklist for. But I'm like MadMax in that I don't usually read all that many rejection threads for other lists. Even when I do, I don't often see the same things that the other reviewers do. We all catch different things. If someone gets snagged by another reviewer for having 4 links out on gallery 2, do you think I'm really going to take my time to go back and delete their site? Hell no. Smart submitters will fix the issue that caused the decline anyway.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I will honestly say out of all the LL I submit to I love your account section the best. It provides me with more then enough info about my submitted sites and their status. Just a sweet script you have there.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I mean if someone comes here and asks GG why they did not get listed an he puts up his answer. How many LL owners go back and check their site for that persons submit and how many don't take the next submit from that person or look way to hard at the page before approving?

Perfect example. Cleo --if I recall correctly -- & I both said we'd love to see you submit sites to our webcam directories with webcam screenshots. Greenguy not accepting that kind of content is not going to change my opinion that those make for excellent free-sites for advertising your webcam sites, and I'll list those till the cows come home.

Again, this goes back to the premise of this whole thread...it's about relationships. You asked first, and got our advice and input and we've even traded messages about your free-sites going down temporarily. You're a perfect example of creating relationships and how they are beneficial to both parties.

[Chop Smith]

You never know when that little dick will grow into a big cock.

1. Be weary of blowing off the small players.
2. Be weary of the small players with weird rules because they think they already have a big cock.

[ladydesigner]

I stopped sending out rejection e-mails because of all the jerks that would just e-mail me back and argue about why I should list their crap. I added a link to this board on my submit form for questions but no one has taken me up on that. As Ponygirl said, there seems to be a free site factory with a bunch of uncaring dumb asses who could care less if their sites are listed or not.

[MadMax]

Well said UW

You bastard

[msanchez]

Great post UW and really in 2006 if your not building a relationship with the linklists that you send your sites to you might as well just hang it up.

Sorry Im cant think of a more colorful way to describe this

[MrYum]

Very well said UW

I send out reject/accept mails too...and it's amazing how few responses I get on the rejections

Establishing communications with those listing or not listing your free sites is a great way to move ahead in this business. Not establishing that communcation is a great way to hit a dead end

[Mr. Blue]

What is this "reject" thing you speak of?

Seriously though, when I started out, I really appreciated rejection emails...it helped me become a really good gallery submitter...so when I did make the transition to a freesite builder, it was a pretty easy transition.

Some submitters and owners don't try to nurture a healthy relationship. Submitters blindly keep submitting without correcting their errors, some owners make outlandish rules that alienate submitters, and both submitter and owner end up losing out because they didn't take the time to nurture a good relationship.

As for UW, I submit to both of his sites because he's straight forward with his rules, there's no mystery rules that only a mindreader could figure out, his rules page isn't the size of The Declaration of Independence, and if you get accepted at Filthyearl's, you're going to get accepted at all the sane LL's that are out there. His sites are a good litmus test (or was that pregnancy test, hmm), for the "bigger" sites.

[Xeno]

Very good UW...

I know for us we send out emails. I also make sure that in the rejection email that if they feel this was in error, I encourage them to reply back with the question. Reason for this is that I know sometimes rejecting or deleting a site submission when you meant to do another can sometimes be a mistake.

One thing I got back on track with now (as of recently), is to send a quick email off to the submitter that if there is something wrong and its something that can be fixed, I will provide a solution. Once done I get them to reply back and then we do a 2nd review.

I think it is important to let the submitter know whether or not they got accepted. I know if I was one, I would want to know if I got in or not so I can move on without going days, weeks, or months wondering "did I" or "didn't I not get accepted" ....if I had recip banners in my sites and didn't know if i was accepted or not, I would be pissed knowing I have been sending traffic to them. At least an email notification by a LL or directory would allow me to know which recip to remove off that site.

I do know though that its all a two way relationship to make it all work. LL's would not be in business if it wasn't for submitters; likewise, submitters would not be doing too well either without them. It really is a business and it is an ongoing learning experience for "everyone" regardless how experienced someone is.

Anyways....its mocha time for me

[Surfn]

Again I ask: "what happened to common sense?" Why is it so hard to determine who is sending you traffic and who isn't? If a particular LL isn't and everyone else is then go reread his rules. There may be something about your sponsor or their type of link banned. Or if only one or two smaller LL's are picking your sites up then consider going to work flipping burgers.

I don't mind helping someone who is willing to try. I am not your mother here to hold your hand on every submission.

[Talleyrand]

Originally Posted by NetGoonie

Very good UW...

I know for us we send out emails. I also make sure that in the rejection email that if they feel this was in error, I encourage them to reply back with the question. Reason for this is that I know sometimes rejecting or deleting a site submission when you meant to do another can sometimes be a mistake.

One thing I got back on track with now (as of recently), is to send a quick email off to the submitter that if there is something wrong and its something that can be fixed, I will provide a solution. Once done I get them to reply back and then we do a 2nd review.

I think it is important to let the submitter know whether or not they got accepted. I know if I was one, I would want to know if I got in or not so I can move on without going days, weeks, or months wondering "did I" or "didn't I not get accepted" ....if I had recip banners in my sites and didn't know if i was accepted or not, I would be pissed knowing I have been sending traffic to them. At least an email notification by a LL or directory would allow me to know which recip to remove off that site.

I do know though that its all a two way relationship to make it all work. LL's would not be in business if it wasn't for submitters; likewise, submitters would not be doing too well either without them. It really is a business and it is an ongoing learning experience for "everyone" regardless how experienced someone is.

Anyways....its mocha time for me

Hi NetGoonie

Excellent post!
You performed your job with professional skill!

Sadly, some people have not the necessary common sense for to work so hard like you.



Talleyrand

[theboyzlist]

Originally Posted by NetGoonie

Very good UW...

I know for us we send out emails. I also make sure that in the rejection email that if they feel this was in error, I encourage them to reply back with the question. Reason for this is that I know sometimes rejecting or deleting a site submission when you meant to do another can sometimes be a mistake.

One thing I got back on track with now (as of recently), is to send a quick email off to the submitter that if there is something wrong and its something that can be fixed, I will provide a solution. Once done I get them to reply back and then we do a 2nd review.

I think it is important to let the submitter know whether or not they got accepted. I know if I was one, I would want to know if I got in or not so I can move on without going days, weeks, or months wondering "did I" or "didn't I not get accepted" ....if I had recip banners in my sites and didn't know if i was accepted or not, I would be pissed knowing I have been sending traffic to them. At least an email notification by a LL or directory would allow me to know which recip to remove off that site.

I do know though that its all a two way relationship to make it all work. LL's would not be in business if it wasn't for submitters; likewise, submitters would not be doing too well either without them. It really is a business and it is an ongoing learning experience for "everyone" regardless how experienced someone is.

Anyways....its mocha time for me

TO TRUE

Why Netgoonie, you always know how to, erm, get down to it

Iv had an LL last week (no names) who iv heard nothing off, and im not listed ? And i was told they were one of the "big guys"

Who knows, maybe they lost their MoJo |shocking|

[Jel]

I used to send rejection emails to everyone, and after spending way too much time sending emails back and forth (even though I state the 2 boards I post regularly at) saying the same thing over and over to different people, now send rejection mails only to submitters I know.

Getting your name 'out there' as a submitter is a good thing - I know I'm not alone in my practice so you get an email where sometimes you wouldn't, As UW says I'll let minor things slide if I know the submitter (ie I won't reject, but I'll let them know in an email), and you get the opportunity of invites should an occasion ever arise.