So, I have been thinking about this Cambria Struggles in Senate Porn Hearings

[Jim]

It seems that at least once/day there is a commercial on TV about the Vchip. You know, those little PG13 Ratings in the corner of TV shows that the Vchip works with.

So, why have computer manufacturers not used the same technology? Wouldn't that solve all the problems. Parents could put in the PC or Mac that it can't access anything Rated R or above and the government could fine any adult site not willing to comply.

That puts the responsibility back in both the parents hands and the website owners hands.

Just an idea...

[Greenguy]

I for one would not mind a general rating system for every US hosted website - it'd be a HUGE pain in the ass to set up, but that's what search & replace it for

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

I for one would not mind a general rating system for every US hosted website - it'd be a HUGE pain in the ass to set up, but that's what search & replace it for

Yeah, it really wouldn't be that difficult. That way, no parent has to buy any software, people not using IE would still have protection and all would be right with the world.

[Greenguy]

Hell, get the SE's involved - no rating text on the page, no listing - that'd encourage webmasters (mainstream & adult) to get their sites set up properly.

[MeatPounder]

A hard chip embedded into the mobo might even withstand the hacks of most if not all of the savvy youth, which a software solution thus far has been unable to do.

One problem with any type of security that depends on the adults technical savvy is sure to fail as the youth of today are so much more advanced then most of their parents and they can bypass everything available today that the parents have the ability to set.

You would be amazed at how naive most computer users are even to this day. A perfect example is that with at least 50% of my new clients, the virus protection they received with their new computer has expired and they just ignore that. they are just surfing along with out any protection at all, and most do not even realize it.

There absolutely must in my opinion, be an effort by the webmasters to somehow identify their sites as pornographic or adult, but after they do so the responsibility must then fall on the parent to filter what their children can access.

A v-chip sounds good, but would that be enabled by default on all new computers? That would cause an uproar larger then any seen before. So it would have to be shipped turned off by default, and thus would be absolutely worthless as most people would not be bothered to enable it.

[Jim]

It could all be the setup of a new computer. When they first fire it up, like AOL, it asks if someone under 18 would be using it. Then, the adult could then have an option to pick a rating that the computer would go to. We can't do everything for the parents but we can do our part.

[RawAlex]

My feeling has always been that without a rating meta on page, browsers by nature should not open webpages. Regardless of the nature of the site, rate it from G to XXX and away you go. Use similar guidelines to those in the TV / cable industry, with the understanding that we have net ratings that are far beyond normal TV.

Most importantly, these ratings need to require nothing more than a meta tag put on a page. No registration, no forms to fill out, no bullshit. Quite simple, we rate out pages, and the browser manufactures key on that tag and work from there. Over a period of time, all pages would require to be rated, and in the end, (say end of 2006) all browsers must be compliant as distributed in the US.

If someone wants to manually write a work around, it would be no different from password trading or hacking. I am sure people do it, I am sure some people would get past the blocks, but the reality would be that our industry (and the web as a whole) would have made a good faith effort to allow parents to control their children's access to adult material online.

Sometimes the simpliest solutions are not the ones people will even grasp.

Alex

[Surfn]

I wonder how any one or any government can get the entire internet to agree on something. Take a look around at the real off line world and tell me the online world of more anonymity could work better on reaching an agreement? I hesitate to believe that it could ever happen.

Then again what do I know. Good luck in your efforts.

[F/X2.0]

why doesn't the adult industry git together and hire some programmers to create the ultimate blocking software for kids and give this software away for free?... ( just think of the PR..)
if the big boys of the industry split the cost of developing this it would be negligible and then nobody (disgruntled parents) would have an excuse for not using it since would be free easy to install and set up, works on all platforms and if you set up the development ( open source perhaps?) right it could probably be a major tax deduction and cheaper than the attorneys needed to fight with Congress/whoever...
...

have everybody put links to some place it could be downloaded from like sourceforge.net

just a stupid idea from an idiot what do you think?

[SirMoby]

Why do we need a chip? Browsers currently have the capability in them today. Unfortunately no one seems interested in using them.

I know people aren't big fans of ICRA labels but I use them and I get emails every couple of months from some one unhappy because their kid purchased a membership to my site.

Doesn't IE support rating systems using ICRA labels today?

I'm happy to use meta tags and labels. I don't care what it is but sooner or later we'll have to use them so why not start now?

[Surfn]

Guys this isn't the isolationistic society of pre WW2 U.S. This is a global problem and has to be address as such. If one or two countries make something illegal there are plenty of other countries willing to make money from that ban because of their morals and their societal mores.

Just like drugs. Look how effective our laws are at taking drugs off the streets and out of the hands of users.


While I have no solution I certainly admire the global problem.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Surfn

While I have no solution I certainly admire the global problem.

You're correct Srufn.

However, if programs that use American billing systems start requiring webmasters to use labels, Google, Yahoo and MS all support them then that would cover the vast majority of what's out there.

Sooner or later Visa will come under pressure from the administration and if no rating system is on the table then they'll have no choice to pull out of adult completely.

The rating system built into browsers works fine if us webmasters choose to use the labels and someone starts educating people on how to configure their browsers.

[MadMax]

I've used ICRA tags from the day I learned what they were. I rate every page on every domain the same, as if it had hardcore everywhere...that way I can use a domain-wide tag and not worry about it.

The thing that really pisses me off about all of this is that filtering software DOES work...IF parents take the 5 minutes to set it up. OF COURSE filtering software doesn't protect kids from porn if it's not installed or configured, and sites hosted overseas are beyond the reasonable reach of the DOJ anyway. This is just another example of our industry getting bashed because it makes good headlines.

[bDok]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I've used ICRA tags from the day I learned what they were. I rate every page on every domain the same, as if it had hardcore everywhere...that way I can use a domain-wide tag and not worry about it.

exactly. I just use the hardcore labels. Just would rather say i'm over labeling then under.

Cheers,
B

[MeatPounder]

Admitted, that the US govt DOES have enough pull to require all the major pc manufacturers to require them to put such a chip in every computer sold in the US.

The manufacturers would fall right in line with little hesitation.

As far as demanding the rest of the world to follow the requirement of putting a rating on their sites, that is absurd.
But If the chip once enabled (by the owners choice only) will only allow that computer to view rated sites, then it is up to webmasters in the rest of the world to decide if they want the people who have the chip enabled to visit their pages. They can either voluntarily put a rating on their sites or basically ignore the request and thus those surfers.

The question then lies...who checks to see if the webmaster put the correct rating on their site? Or for that matter which rating a site should have?
Big Brother and a taxpayer funded watchdog group? The bible Thumpers? George W himself?
Who could enforce if I put a pg rating on an anal site?

[Tommy]

what if we took the first step and requred labels on all submits

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by Tommy

what if we took the first step and requred labels on all submits

Hey Tommy,

That might be doable for those you who have paid reviewers, but for myself, I can't imagine the extra overhead that would create. I certainly don't have time to view source on every submission to check for a label.

There has to be another solution.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by LowryBigwood

Hey Tommy,

That might be doable for those you who have paid reviewers, but for myself, I can't imagine the extra overhead that would create. I certainly don't have time to view source on every submission to check for a label.

There has to be another solution.

A script modification that would simply look for the label would be fine.

Perhaps our website should state clearly that there already is a way to label websites that is supported by browsers and we are using it. Unfortunately it has issues and we are willing to make a more easily used standard.

Alex, you don't actually have to register. It's a strange process that helps them send out urls to blocking software. Any ICRA tag, from any website can will actually work and I just have it on my server.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

A script modification that would simply look for the label would be fine.

That could work, if I can convince the programmers to add that to my LL script. But, I have another worry. I might not get any submissions if I do that or very few at first. Howlong will it take the freesite, gallery submitters to jump on the bandwagon?

I guess I could always give 30-90 days notice on my webmaster submit and thank you page, stating that after that time period, no more submissions without a label will be accepted.

I'll let the big boys make the first move. |goodidea

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Tommy

what if we took the first step and requred labels on all submits

...as well as legit warning pages with no nudity (and yes, I am serious)

[chadknowslaw]

What would really work? Something that is simple and easy to implement but makes it more difficult for kids to access porn [nothing will ever be foolproof. Check out any popular bar to see underage people drinking, even after they have given a real live bouncer an "ID" ].
If the industry is pro-active and presents a solution that we can work with, we will be better off than a stupid solution that the government will most certainly conjure up. Look at what they did with the 2257 law! If that had been in place, Traci Lords would still have appeared in all those videos. I don't mean to be on a soapbox, but that stupid law does not require the producer to log the date the image was made--which is absolutely necessary to determine if it is CP or not.

[Bill]

This page talks about an interesting article about 'trustmarks', ICRA, browsers, and search engines...

http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/003204.html

---------------
From the interview:

"Do you think that the search engines will start actively looking for trustmarks? Might this impact on search results, rendering trustmarks obligatory? "

Paul's response:

"They will actively look for trustmarks. As I said earlier, browsers are falling over themselves to be the first to support content rating and quality labelling.

We’re also meeting with the leading search engines in the US this week. "
------------------

I personally don't like ICRA, but it's possible it will become more significant.

I still think a simple meta tag, that could be put on every page, that didn't require a third party, that told every browser this was adults only porn page and that redirected requests from all non adult browsers, is the best solution.

[Halfdeck]

All it takes is a few of the biggest LLs/TGPs announcing a new rule requiring ICRA/meta tags -- the rest will follow suit.

After skimming a few PICS docs, I'm not sure which part is so complicated.

((PICS-version 1.1)
(rating-system "http://www.link-o-rama.com/child-idiot-safe/")
(rating-service "http://adultrating.link-o-rama.com/")
(name "Greenguy's Rating Service")
(description "Running a professional business means we go the distance to protect kids from being accidentally exposed to porn. Copyright 2006. All Rights Reserved.")

(category (transmit-as "h") (name "Hardcore Rating")
(label
(name "Gentle kissing and caressing")
(value 0))
(label
(name "french kissing, nipple sucking, rubbing pussy")
(value 1))
(label
(name "Face slapping, choking, ass fingering")
(value 2))
(label
(name "repeated facial cumshots while fucking a roomful of strangers")
(value 3))
(label
(name "Cleo's avatar")
(value 10))

What am I missing?

[RawAlex]

Madmax: ICRA tags are a waste because they require active registration. It should not be any more than a regular meta tag you just put on the site, not a registration process. Registering websites just makes another profitable non profit organization with people on the payroll making money to do nothing.

Tommy, it would be possible, but we would need to set some standards and make it easy.

Alex

[Toby]

Agreed, it should be as simple as adding <META NAME="rating" CONTENT="adult"> to the Head of every page