If a sponsor pays for advertising, Does that make them a better sponsor?

[[BV]]

I'll get straight to the point.

There are many smaller "micro niche" sponsors that are solid moneymakers but don't have thousands of dollars set aside in their budget each month to advertise on all the various industry message boards.

I feel a lot of good programs are in a way "censored" out of the main forums because they are not "Paid Advertisers".

Is this doing justice to the forums readers?

Is this in a way some type of censorship?

Discuss.....

Cheers,
BV

[Jim]

I'm not sure what you mean by censored. Give me an example.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by [BV]

...I feel a lot of good programs are in a way "censored" out of the main forums because they are not "Paid Advertisers"....

If you're speaking about sticky posts & announcements that are not moved to the "spam" forum, can you think of any other scenario in all of marketing where companies got free advertising because they're small?

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Greenie

If you're speaking about sticky posts & announcements that are not moved to the "spam" forum, can you think of any other scenario in all of marketing where companies got free advertising because they're small?

Yes, I can think of some, but I'm not asking for free advertising and I do realise that this board is a business and it generates revenue by selling advertising.

The point I am trying to make is paid advertisers have the largest voice and most exposure and leeway.

Very similar to how big corporations have lobbyists in Washington getting their voice heard and the small guy has no voice.

Is this in the best interest of your readers?

censor: verb
1. forbid the public distribution of

Sponsors that don't pay for advertising are forbidden to make announcements in the same forums that paying advertisers do. So in essence they are censored. Right?

I've been censored here a few times in the past and now I know better what I can post as well as where I can post it.

I also understand that it can't be a free for all spam fest for everyone because that wouldn't be good either.

I'm not sure what the solution would be to have a completely democratic webmaster forum. It's probably impossible.

Maybe open up some more affordable advertising methods like selling announcement posts would be cool with me?

Cheers,
BV

[LD]

Originally Posted by [BV]

censor: verb
1. forbid the public distribution of

Sponsors that don't pay for advertising are forbidden to make announcements in the same forums that paying advertisers do. So in essence they are censored. Right?


BV

No, censorship would only apply if you paid for advertising yet still could not make announcements in forums set up for paid advertisers.

[Jim]

I was thinking that's what he means but the word "censor" thows me off.

[Jim]

Nah...you have to think of webmaster forums like one of those free newspapers as far as advertising goes. The only difference is forums don't charge for advertising in the "classifieds" section.

As far as the word censor...it doesn't really apply. If a new, smaller program wants to make an announcement, there is a place for that without cost.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Jim

Nah...you have to think of webmaster forums like one of those free newspapers as far as advertising goes. The only difference is forums don't charge for advertising in the "classifieds" section.

As far as the word censor...it doesn't really apply. If a new, smaller program wants to make an announcement, there is a place for that without cost.

We obviously have a difference of opinion because we are both biased.

No surprise there.

Cheers,
BV

[Jim]

I have been on both sides of the fence. So, I'm not really that biased. But, I have tried to think of any similar media outlet or business model that doesn't offer better advertising to someone paying.

Give me some example of a similar business model that does what you think webmaster forums should do.

[LD]

Interesting question. Public forums are free to use and offer a free service for the most part, yet many if not most have an underlying profit motive. I can see where things get a little cloudy. I guess the owners of the board have to use their disgression between what is spam and what is useful information. But, money talks for sure.

[Greenguy]

You're basically asking the board owners for free advertising.

You think FOX is giving away free ads to smaller companies today? Are they censoring Mom & Pop's Dry Cleaning by not running their ad for free?

Your use of the word "censorship" in this thread is

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Greenie

You're basically asking the board owners for free advertising.

You think FOX is giving away free ads to smaller companies today? Are they censoring Mom & Pop's Dry Cleaning by not running their ad for free?

Your use of the word "censorship" in this thread is

That's a perfect example of what I am talking about. I couldn't have come up with a better example myself.

FOX's viewers are so far out of the loop it's not even funny.

Check this out and you will see what I mean if you don't already: http://www.outfoxed.org/

You guys are getting all defensive and missing the whole point of this thread.

I don't want free advertising.
I never asked for it.
I just wanted to know if you thought it was fair to the readers.

thats all

[DangerDave]

GG quit being so polite , I think you have 'extended courtesy' to this thread for much longer than I would of...

Originally Posted by [BV]

I just wanted to know if you thought it was fair to the readers.

This is the/your key question!?

Which should only be answered with another question.

Why does it have to be "fair"?
The premise of the question assumes that "fair" is good, or that "fair" is what should be aimed for.

That is simply not the case, this is a business and "fairness" is a great way to make your business go bust!


Additionally, the premise of the question assumes that we "readers" are too stupid to go look for small programs on our own... and have to have them 'spoon-feed' to us in special 'sticky posts' - another false premise.

Most, if not all of us can use the many other resources of our business( that have been supplied for years for free) to track down any number of small programs.


Thirdly, my 'smaller program' gets valuable free advertising from this board and others, because of the contribution I make... no freebies for being small, just a little thank you and reward for adding to the community(another 'net fundamental)

Your 'argument' has been flawed from the beginning and holds no value..

DD

[Useless]

Do deep pockets make them better sponsors? Certainly not. Most of them started with lots of playing cash, which afforded them the path to creating even more. That's just how capitalism works.

It doesn't seem like you see many small budget start-ups becoming much more than what they started as in this business. I don't really know why that is. It's not as if the reps working for the larger sponsors seem to know what they're doing or even care. The most knowledgeable people I've spoken to are actually the owners of small programs.

I first read this thread late last night and I've been pondering how it would be feasible to allow small programs to make announcements on a main board without creating a total SPAMfest. I suppose a board could sell individual stickied threads for a fair price with no banner advertising included. Obviously, you couldn't allow free-for-all spamming. So a price and discretion would have to be attached to such an action. If I was a program owner who had the ability to write good marketing text, I'd rather have a thread than a banner any day.

[CD Smith]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I first read this thread late last night and I've been pondering how it would be feasible to allow small programs to make announcements on a main board without creating a total SPAMfest. I suppose a board could sell individual stickied threads for a fair price with no banner advertising included. Obviously, you couldn't allow free-for-all spamming. So a price and discretion would have to be attached to such an action. If I was a program owner who had the ability to write good marketing text, I'd rather have a thread than a banner any day.

Exactly. That other board has been doing this for years.

This or any other board could offer paid sticky "announcement" threads for a half day, full day, 3 days, a week, and charge accordingly, which would allow smaller programs an avenue of affordable_yet_high_profile ads on as many boards as they wished to purchase from.

Originally Posted by Jim

To be fair, Greenie is getting a little defensive

I concede there was a little defensiveness, but not without good reason.

[Jim]

FOX was a poor choice, I suspect. Look at any media outlet as long as they don't run on donations only and you will see the same business model.

Your bottom line question seems to be "I just wanted to know if you thought it was fair to the readers". I have to answer yes. We allow any program to make announcements in "webmaster news", "newsletter" and "products and/or services". If a reader is looking for something in particular, they can ask for it in "i'm looking for".

I never thought you were looking for free advertising. And, I have not been defensive. I just thought this was a good debate.

[Greenguy]

I only pointed out FOX because of today's big game.

And we do help those that help us - there are members of this board that are very active & helpful & part of the community that we allow to post in the main or one of the topic specific forums when they have a big announcement. Ask Ramster, Linkster, Preacher & a couple of other members whose names may or may not end with "er"

This isn't a free for all message board run by a non-profit organization where nothing is censored. Jim & I are here to make money while we help people. This isn't a big secret.

I'm still not sure why you think a small business should have free advertising just because they are small.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I'm still not sure why you think a small business should have free advertising just because they are small.

Why do you keep saying that? I never said that and I am not saying that.

I was just thinking about the readers and what the consequences were of them primarily being inundated with paid adds and paid spam posts from your advertisers.

Exactly like what FOX news does. That's how they make money and that's how you make money.

You are right, it's no secret, i didn't say it was. I was just asking how fair is that to the readers?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by [BV]

...I was just thinking about the readers and what the consequences were of them primarily being inundated with paid adds and paid spam posts from your advertisers...

Why should this forum be different than any other aspect of life?

Pick up a newspaper. Turn on a TV or radio. Surf the internet. Drive in your car & look at billboards. Go to a sporting event. Everywhere you go, you are seeing ads.

And let's not forget that I publish my stats a couple times a year. There are big programs in there & there are small programs in there. There are board sponsors in there & some sponsors are not. If anything, this aspect alone should set this board apart from every other one because my stats are an honest & truthful evaluation of the sponsors that I am using & none of the link codes on there are the codes that we use for the board advertisers.

[nekrom]

I believe that smaller programs should remain hidden, as it creates less comp for those of us sending traffic to them.

-N

[Greenguy]

You know what - if you just left it at your 1st question:
If a sponsor pays for advertising, Does that make them a better sponsor?
I'd agree with you. I think most people know this as well. If it was true, every beer drinker that watched the game yesterday would buy Bud for the rest of their lives. Do you think that's going to happen?

It's the nonsense that the board is in some way censoring small companies that has me so pissed off, because that's a very strong word to throw around & I really think is has no business in this discussion.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Greenie

You know what - if you just left it at your 1st question:
If a sponsor pays for advertising, Does that make them a better sponsor?
I'd agree with you. I think most people know this as well. If it was true, every beer drinker that watched the game yesterday would buy Bud for the rest of their lives. Do you think that's going to happen?

It's the nonsense that the board is in some way censoring small companies that has me so pissed off, because that's a very strong word to throw around & I really think is has no business in this discussion.

Sorry, maybe i should have used restrict, it has similar meaning but sounds much better.

There is no reason to be pissed off GG. This is pretty much the business model of most all webmaster forums. Not just here. So this is not just about you and this forum, but all like forums.

Basically it could be compared to a TGP or Link List for porn surfers but instead of serving up pron, GGJ readers get access to all these useful posts full of search able information at no cost with trade off of being exposed to advertisements which could be compared to the paid add spots on some TGP's.

The outcome of which is that only the advertisers which can afford to pay get most all of the exposure and sign ups.

This may be the perfect scenario for the forum and its advertisers but is it perfect for the readers?

Do you see how they possibly are being restricted into what they are seeing?

That is all I am talking about.

No different than if I ran a TGP and was asking what would be the affect on my porn surfers if for example I switched from open submissions to say just paid submissions.

No Worries!
BV

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by [BV]

...There is no reason to be pissed off GG. This is pretty much the business model of most all webmaster forums. Not just here. So this is not just about you and this forum, but all like forums.

Basically it could be compared to a TGP or Link List for porn surfers but instead of serving up pron, GGJ readers get access to all these useful posts full of search able information at no cost with trade off of being exposed to advertisements which could be compared to the paid add spots on some TGP's.

The outcome of which is that only the advertisers which can afford to pay get most all of the exposure and sign ups.

This may be the perfect scenario for the forum and its advertisers but is it perfect for the readers?

Do you see how they possibly are being restricted into what they are seeing?...

...[/quote]Can you please provide me with one example of anyplace in the real world of buying & selling ad space - not just message boards & not just adult - is different?

And, did you miss my post about the stats I publish? Did you see that sticky thread on top that shows the stats of 29 CCBill programs that are considered small?

I want to know what brought this about. What board did you want free advertising on that told you to get bent?

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Greenie

...

I want to know what brought this about. What board did you want free advertising on that told you to get bent?[/quote]

No other board told me to get bent. I don't ask for free shit. I pay my way on everything I do. If I can't afford it, I don't buy it.

If you don't believe me it will be pretty easy to verify as I only read and actively post only on 2 boards. This one and The other one.

If you really want to know what brought this about; I woke up yesterday and had a vision of your panties all in a wad and it really turned me on. So I said to myself what can I do to really piss off GreenGuy. The rest is history.

edit: and if it's any consequence, that other board, I can post an announcement thread pretty much any time I want in the main forum. I definitely have more posts there and answer many more questions than here, but it's a much faster moving board with many more posts, so that's understandable.

I would probably post more here but I am sort of anal about clicking through all the sub forums and I just have the main forum bookmarked on my desktop and usually enter right into the main forum and see what's new.

[CD Smith]

It doesn't make them a 'better' sponsor. It simply means they are paying more for advertising in order to be more high profile on the boards.

It's not about favoritism on the part of the boards. Message boards are a business, period. They sell ad space, like any newspaper or ad vehicle out there. You aren't going to get a full page ad in a newspaper unless you pay the big bucks for it, why should a message board behave any differently?

There are plenty of ways to get exposure to a smaller program without resorting to having to part with thousands they might not yet have. Paying for a sticky doesn't cost all that much and is pretty high profile. Program owners can also buy the sigs of a handful of posters and glean a lot of exposure across several boards that way. Or try offering a few smaller prizes in some of the webmaster events such as sports pools.

But BV you know all this already. You've been at this game for some time.

Lastly, I don't see anyone getting defensive here.