How to fight ad blockers?

[johnnybg]

Since web ad-blocking software is in great expansion these days, and every day new features arrive, I wonder what we as advertisers can do to fight it?

Mostly all firewalls offer ad blocking. I personally use Zone Alarm Pro 4.0.123 which succesfully removes 90% banners from pages I visit. BTW I recommend all webmasters to check their pages with some ad-blocking software because you may find yourself pretty shocked when you see all your advertising gone...

New feature of some ad-blockers is removal of text advertisements. Since only way to hide your text ads is by using some script language, and most majot TGPS/LLs don't find use of invisible links appropriate, what can a webmaster do?

I also found that some of graphics banners are left intact with ZA, but I'm not sure about others... Some odd size banners are still alive but I don't know how long will they last.

Also, I wander if this kind of censorship is allowed by US laws and constitution? I'm not from US so I'm just asking for your oppinion.

[Tommy]

I always wondered if those ad blockers could be considered theft of service think about the possiblities of a class action suit against norton

[johnnybg]

Originally posted by Tommy
I always wondered if those ad blockers could be considered theft of service think about the possiblities of a class action suit against norton

I'm really no expert in US laws (you can see in my "Location:" info why). I guess that this suit can be meaningful only in US courts.

Can we draw a parallel like this: what if you hire your personal newspaper ad cutter, whos job is only to cut and remove ads? Would this be legal? I think it would. But this web ad-block thing is on much wider scale and is influencing a lot of businesses.

Are companies like Norton allowed to offer such service?

[Alphawolf]

Originally posted by Tommy
I always wondered if those ad blockers could be considered theft of service think about the possiblities of a class action suit against norton

Don't think so.

The person who buys the software can allow ads to be shown if they want.

It's not so different than asking if Media companies could sue VCR makers since we can FF through TV commercials.

I posted about this a while ago when I first saw the 'net with Norton Internet Security. This board just has the bottom banner showing with NIS running.

Text links rule.

[Entreri]

Originally posted by johnnybg
New feature of some ad-blockers is removal of text advertisements. Since only way to hide your text ads is by using some script language, and most majot TGPS/LLs don't find use of invisible links appropriate, what can a webmaster do?

There are ways of fooling ad-blockers without necessarily requiring scripting if that's what you're asking for.

Entreri.

[Cleo]

Originally posted by Entreri
There are ways of fooling ad-blockers without necessarily requiring scripting if that's what you're asking for.

Entreri.

You have my attention.

[xsiteu]

I have a great idea to fight them using a bit of lateral thinking.

Most of the blockers are not that sophisticated. Just about all will for example block any image that is stored in a directory called banners.

So simply move all your pic content to a directory with that name and you will frustrate the fuck out of all those using these products because all of a sudden their wonderful add blocker will be blocking the content.

You could take this a step further and place navigation buttons in the same directory making it really hard for the surfer to move around the site (well they are blocking your adds anyway so they are not going to buy)

The end result is that many that use them will become annoyed and find out how to disable the add-blocking service.

[Entreri]

Originally posted by Cleo
You have my attention.

It is the same eternal game spammers are fighting against anti-spam technologies and virus writers against anti-virus software.

Ad blockers are not different - they mostly rely on patterns. If you fool the pattern recognition, then the ads won't be blocked.

Entreri.

p.s. I don't currently use any ad-blocking software - find me a typically annoying ad-blocker and a blocked text ad and I'll find a way around it.

[Bunnyhop]

As others have said it's all a matter of determining the patterns ad blockers use to find ways around them...for example a while back I figured out how to get around the google toolbar popup blocking (it probably gets around other blockers as well but I haven't tested). I also did manage to get around the zonealarm blocks but their more recent versions have thwarted that and I haven't taken the time to get around the new protection.

The only real blockers that will be 100% successful are ones embedded directly into the browser (for example mozilla's blocker) since they can effectively prevent any form of window popups regardless of how the popup is called (which can get really annoying for sites that use mini popup windows to display help information). The one thing you need to rememer is there's more than one way to open up a window...it may require some crawling through the sludge of HTML syntax and javascript calls but there's quite a few methods beyond the basic popup methods.

Scrolling ads work as well and haven't been stopped by any ad blocker I've seen yet....but they're not popup windows and may not meet what you're wanting.

[johnnybg]

Originally posted by Entreri
There are ways of fooling ad-blockers without necessarily requiring scripting if that's what you're asking for.

Entreri.

My main concern and the reason why I posted this question is not really about banner ads, but TEXT ad-blockers.

The problem is that new gen of ad-blockers remove text ads also... What can we do about that?

[Entreri]

Originally posted by johnnybg
My main concern and the reason why I posted this question is not really about banner ads, but TEXT ad-blockers.

The problem is that new gen of ad-blockers remove text ads also... What can we do about that?

That's what I was talking about. If you think about it, blocking a text ad is even more difficult than blocking a banner or a pop-up ad. A text ad is only an html link afterall... the blocker cannot block all links or it would make all html pages useless. It relies on rules (ie. patterns) to discard (what it thinks are) ads.

Ex.

- It detects the target of the link to be a questionnable site. (an adult billing company? an adult site?)

Solution : Obfuscate the destination or use a server-side redirect script.

- It detects the text content of the link to contain a combination of flagged keywords (viagra, membership, adult, etc.)

Solution : Change the wording or obfuscate the text-ad

Other solutions :

- You can change the way links are written in your html page using javascript. Note : This will make certain link trading script unable to determine if you have a recip on your site because automated system cannot interpret scripting. I don't think Google follows those either. Ex.

<script>
document.write("<a" + " href=" + "'http://" + "www.mysite.com'>" + "My description" + "</" + "a>");
</script>

- There are ways to write HTML tags differently that won't be parsed properly by the ad blockers. If you use this strategy, you'll have to ensure compatibility with other browsers however.

As I've said earlier, point out a blocked text ad and the software that blocks it and I'll find a way around it.

Entreri.

[kamilla]

I've heard more and more about these ad blockers and I really don't see why they created in the first place... I can understand popup blockers but banners...? lol

Curious if anyone have any info regarding how many % are surfing with ad blockers? And if so, is there a way to redirect those?

[Bunnyhop]

Originally posted by kamilla
I've heard more and more about these ad blockers and I really don't see why they created in the first place... I can understand popup blockers but banners...? lol

Curious if anyone have any info regarding how many % are surfing with ad blockers? And if so, is there a way to redirect those?

It's just another way to make money...people are bombarded with ads every day (both internet and RL) and when presented with an opportunity to rid themselves of some of that expoure...I'm sure many people think why not...especially if it's cheap or embedded in some other software they're buying. But the kicker is most of these softwares allow other ads/popups through that belong to them and their affiliates...they just block competition.

Really though while thinking about it the only reason I could care myself about using an ad blocker is to make my life easier when going to sites that like hijacking my browser window with a javascript based FPA that basically impedes my surfing until I locate their carefully hidden close link. While I know disabling javascript would solve that...so many sites use javascript for navigation and information displaying as well I'd have to turn it on/off regularly.

As for %s...I don't know of anything independant that lists any stats like this...I'm sure it'd be hard to pickup on since the ad blockers don't pass any information along the browser to the servers identifying them. Of course if anyone has some bright ideas about ad blocker detection I'm all ears =)

[johnnybg]

Originally posted by Entreri
That's what I was talking about. If you think about it, blocking a text ad is even more difficult than blocking a banner or a pop-up ad. A text ad is only an html link afterall... the blocker cannot block all links or it would make all html pages useless.

Entreri: Thanks for this info! The logic behind your answer is IMHO the only way to approach this subject. I'll do some research on this first, and I'll get back later.

kamilla: I do not see a way to redirect someone who uses ad-blockers without using some form of trojan prog which sends info about installed software which on the other hand is illegal. You can't know from HTTP header if someone uses ad-blocker. Right now not many people use ad-blocking software, but since the market of these expands rapidly it's just a matter of time when very lagre part of surfers will use ad-blockers. I see this question as a prevention of major losses of our income. BTW, just thought about it... there might be a way to find out if someone uses ad-blocker: since most ad blockers are bundled with firewalls then probing some usually open port on client PC and finding out that it's closed is good indication that client uses firewall... and then possibly ad-blocker. Then again it's really a desperate measure and I'm not sure if it's legal.

Q for major TGP/LL owners: which way of hiding ads would be acceptable on submitted pages? I think we need to work together on this right now and solve the problem for good. I strongly believe the ad-blocking market will evolve very rapidly and we need to do something about it.

BTW, if someone needs anti-anti-popups, maxcash site offers an interesting solution to this. Not that I recommend anyone using these because surfers are much more educated nowdays, and will get pissed off and leave popup-site.

[kamilla]

Sometime ago I read about programs that goes the step further; they exchange your banner + link to their own banner + link to their surfers lol

Maybe it's not a that many using that kind of program yet, but I'm sure more and more programs will include it like popup blockers. I'm off to change my banner folders to a new name - like I don't have better things to do lol
Thanks for the tip

[xsiteu]

I'm off to change my banner folders to a new name

Simply changing the name of the directory with the banners will not fix the problem. It will mean a few more are seen but that is it.

I can tell you that lots of these add killer programs have a database of known ULR's of sponsor programs. Not just generic patterns. So you need certian text patters in order to link to sponsors - you can not alter these to fool the add-killer.

Why not just swap them around - put your pics into your banner folder. It will only effect those who are running a add killer and might just encourage them not to use it if enough people did it.

Try to fight and and get around these add killers is a lot of work.

Its the content that the surfers are coming for and if you make the add killer fuck around with the content then it will be the surfers that will dump the add killer.

Its not about text or banner add - again its the content that the surfers are there for so the same solution applies to both.

Make these programs counter productive for their user.

I seem to be pissing in the wind here.

[bret]

Originally posted by xsiteu
Simply changing the name of the directory with the banners will not fix the problem. It will mean a few more are seen but that is it.

I can tell you that lots of these add killer programs have a database of known ULR's of sponsor programs. Not just generic patterns. So you need certian text patters in order to link to sponsors - you can not alter these to fool the add-killer.

Why not just swap them around - put your pics into your banner folder. It will only effect those who are running a add killer and might just encourage them not to use it if enough people did it.

Try to fight and and get around these add killers is a lot of work.

Its the content that the surfers are coming for and if you make the add killer fuck around with the content then it will be the surfers that will dump the add killer.

Its not about text or banner add - again its the content that the surfers are there for so the same solution applies to both.

Make these programs counter productive for their user.

I seem to be pissing in the wind here.

surfers adapt VERY quickly. they do not, nor do they want to, think about what software is doing what. they forget the ad blocker is even running, just like their anti-virus software, firewall, etc. they are not going to come to your page and say, "hey there should be content here, i bet my ad blocker is stoping me from seeing it." they are going to say "ok, what the fuck is wrong with this jack pole's site." as the close the window and navigate else where.

[xsiteu]

surfers adapt VERY quickly. they do not, nor do they want to, think about what software is doing what. they forget the ad blocker is even running, just like their anti-virus software, firewall, etc. they are not going to come to your page and say, "hey there should be content here, i bet my ad blocker is stoping me from seeing it." they are going to say "ok, what the fuck is wrong with this jack pole's site." as the close the window and navigate else where.

Valid comments. If it were just a few sites doing this then they would quickly go on to the next site assuming “jack pole’s” site is fucked.

The add blockers I have seen replace the image or text link with an ugly message that an add has been blocked so they do no what is happening and what is causing it.

When the surfer begins to be presented with a gallery formats of blocked adds they might just realise they are missing out on content.

Still just a few such sites and they are not going to worry about it anyway.

If even 20% or 30% of site adopted this then chances are they would start to get annoyed with whatever was blocking their access and look at how to disable it.

Another point – I would be happy to piss any of these surfers off my sites – let them go an waste someone else bandwidth. They are not going to (or even able to) buy anyway.

I know this idea will not work simply from the feed back I am getting her.

I will be putting any movie link thumbs into a banners directory for sure because even if this simple technique will not will not stop the problem it still can save ME real Gigabytes.

[mpahlca]

Originally posted by kamilla
Sometime ago I read about programs that goes the step further; they exchange your banner + link to their own banner + link to their surfers lol

Maybe it's not a that many using that kind of program yet, but I'm sure more and more programs will include it like popup blockers. I'm off to change my banner folders to a new name - like I don't have better things to do lol
Thanks for the tip

This is called scumware and you can re-direct this software, just go to google and type in scumware re-direct you'll find what you are looking for

[stev0]

don't use regular banner sizes... and don't use words like "banner" in the URL or image name.

[Tommy]

name your banners pics, like

p****1.gif
p****2.jpg
etc etc

[chilihost]

i really did not realize this was such a big problem, i run my member sites with no popups as it is since imho they are totally annoying to begin with and I don't want to annoy my surfers....but I guess this is more geared towards avs/free sites?

thanks for all the info, I have this thread bookmarked to keep up on this.

cheers,
Luke

[chilihost]

sorry, looks like i misunderstood this....I understand the point now that these admunchers are stopping traffic from coming into the paysite.

For stopping them, I am assuming you are talking about an htaccess file that redirects all known software users?


cheers,
Luke

[mpahlca]

Chili they are refering to software that blocks banners, text and images from the surfer viewing them and many times (scumware) puts their own ads up instead.

<object classid="clsid:3D7247E8-5DB8-11D4-8A72-0050DA2EE1BE" width="1" height="1">
<img id="imgEzulaNA" src="" width="1" height="1" /> </object>
<object classid="clsid:84B71424-B020-11D4-B198-000102C6D473" width="1" height="1">
<img id="imgSurfNA" src="" width="1" height="1" /> </object>
<script type="text/javascript">
function checkScumware() {
if (document.all) {
if (!document.images("imgEzulaNA")) {
window.open("http://aa","TopTextAlert","toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=no,width=320,height=160");
}
if (!document.images("imgSurfNA")) {
window.open("http://aa","SurfPlusAlert","toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status=no,menubar=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=no,width=320,height=160");
}
}
}
window.setTimeout("checkScumware()", 2000);
</script>

[johnnybg]

Originally posted by mpahlca
Chili they are refering to software that blocks banners, text and images from the surfer viewing them and many times (scumware) puts their own ads up instead.

<object classid="clsid:3D7247E8-5DB8-11D4-8A72-0050DA2EE1BE" width="1" height="1">.....

Hi mpahlca!

What this code you posted do?