search engine chat at 11pm EST tonite

Bill · 2005-08-17, 09:19 PM

Want to make money with search engine traffic? Come to the search engine chat!

Tonights topic is "Natural Linking".

irc.greenguysboard.com
#greenguyandjim
port: 6667

Weds nights at 11pm EST

Halfdeck · 2005-08-17, 09:50 PM

I'll be there

Jeka · 2005-08-17, 09:53 PM

Argh, Bill can't you do the seo chat maybe 2-3 hours earlier? 5am is so hard to stay up

Erick G · 2005-08-17, 10:37 PM

See ya in there Bill!

Useless · 2005-08-17, 10:46 PM

15 minutes

neveremail · 2005-08-18, 05:17 AM

I left the IRC client on but it disconnected but fortunately I managed to get the minutes from the chat. It was very interesting, thanks Bill.

I would like to clarify somethings and put in some of my own ideas here as I couldn't make it to the chat (sleeping). It would be great if Bill could answer

With regard to this natural linking business I was wondering who is effected more - the person been linked to or the person linking out.

For example - there is a site which has very unnatural linking, I'm guessing that this site will suffer some negativity from SEs more so than the sites it would be linking to - that is sort of obvious. But how does it effect the sites it links to? I'm thinking its effect would be nominal, but if a site was linked to from a lot of unatural sites then it would definately have a negative effect. But reflecting on your estimation of 15% chaos needed then as long as you maintain a decent amount of chaos (approx. 15%) from outside linking then you will be okay and those unatural links will still be of benifit.

Most people including myself like to stick thier link trades at the bottom of the page all next to each other or down the side of the page, but all clumped together either way. You said this was unnatural. So to counter this you should put some links into your content as paragraphs (in a way that you would if you weren't trying to make money out of your site). I guess you would want your linking partners to do the same for you to give you some randomness for your inbound links - but I'm guessing most people are not going to do this.
But I think its worthwhile to try to get some of your link partners to give you some more natural recips in paragraphs and get them to write it themselves and then you do the same for them, therefore giving both of you randomness on both your outbound and inbound links. I guess it would probably help if these were three way trades, maybe even four or fiveway trades to add to the randomness.

Its something you did not discuss but I also think is a good idea is getting your link partners to occasionally link to the deeper pages on your site. This i think is more natural than index to index all the time. Also you will target different keywords in your link back text - again more natural.

Well thats about all I have to say - it would be good if you could comment on it bill.

Fonz · 2005-08-18, 05:56 AM

I can't wait to read the log file on this one

Jeka · 2005-08-18, 05:58 AM

It would be a good idea to start some small exchange networks i.e. 100 sites of the same niche in 1 list and every webmaster must link to 20 sites that he can randomly chose and come up with a random text link that must be approved by the site owner he links to. This way everybody would gets linked by the same amount of sites that he links to...

neveremail · 2005-08-18, 06:07 AM

thats not a bad idea Jeka but I;m not sure how easy it would be to get 100 sites together.

Simon · 2005-08-18, 11:04 AM

I hope Bill catches this thread again too.

Nevermail, I can tell you that I think you're on the right track with how you understood what was talked about last night. And your question about deeper linking is a good one. With some sites we encourage linking to our interior pages and love it when some will write a paragraph about something on that page and link to it from inside that paragraph text block.

Simon

neveremail · 2005-08-18, 11:10 AM

Well if anyone want to do those sorts of trades with me just hit me up

- ICQ: 218094863 - email: webmaster (at) paradisebikinis.com

I got another question to:
A lot of sites have link pages - and many people use the text "links" or "more links" to link to thier link page.
Do you think SEs pick up on that when you use that linking text and are more likely to consider your link page as a link dump and penalize you for it?

Bill · 2005-08-18, 01:41 PM

Moderators, would you move this to the search engine forum for us please?

Thanks in advance.

Jeka, I'm going to look into having the se chat at another time slot every other session - how about 7pm EST, is that a good time?

Now, for the rest of it... You guys are throwing a few dozen questions at me here, really too many for me to do justice too, so if you could pick one question at a time that would make giving a good answer much more possible.

Remember, all search engine work is pretty much voodoo. By that I mean it's done based largely on guesses and beliefs, on "What Might Work", because the SE's intentionally conceal their true methods and tricks. So, when I pick a figure like "15% chaos", that's just my guess, with a bit of fudge factor thrown in. I have reasons for making that guess, but it's still just a guess.

I want to emphasize my main point last night, which is that when you see both a yahoo rep and a google rep in a strong agreement about something they are calling "natural linking", at a major SE conference, that's a very strong hint that "natural linking" is an anti-spam and ranking technique that they both think is important.

For us, that means thinking about "natural linking" is probably going to be even more important if we want to rank well and make search engine money.

Bill · 2005-08-18, 01:51 PM

neveremail, in my experience "links" pages have always tended to be devalued a bit (by google at least). I have assumed it is because links pages are often similar to other links pages used by the same webmaster on other domains.

But, becuase links pages tend to have a lot of text, often more text with rarer keywords than are on the main pages of the domain, they often end up getting a nice stream of traffic.

I have never seen anything that I would call a "link dump" penalty for such pages. If there was, I'd have to think that the same types of penalties would be applied to all linklist cat pages, and I don't really see that when I look at the serps.

So, my main concern with links pages is similarity - but personally, I tend to use links pages as a traffic tool, not as much to get SE traffic.

2005-08-17, 09:19 PM	#1
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	search engine chat at 11pm EST tonite Want to make money with search engine traffic? Come to the search engine chat! Tonights topic is "Natural Linking". irc.greenguysboard.com #greenguyandjim port: 6667 Weds nights at 11pm EST

2005-08-17, 09:50 PM	#2
Halfdeck You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 985	I'll be there __________________ Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm.

2005-08-17, 10:37 PM	#4
Erick G Look maah I moved out and got my own space:) Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 555	See ya in there Bill! __________________ Exclusive Feeds

2005-08-17, 10:46 PM	#5
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	15 minutes __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2005-08-18, 05:17 AM	#6
neveremail Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 504	I left the IRC client on but it disconnected but fortunately I managed to get the minutes from the chat. It was very interesting, thanks Bill. I would like to clarify somethings and put in some of my own ideas here as I couldn't make it to the chat (sleeping). It would be great if Bill could answer With regard to this natural linking business I was wondering who is effected more - the person been linked to or the person linking out. For example - there is a site which has very unnatural linking, I'm guessing that this site will suffer some negativity from SEs more so than the sites it would be linking to - that is sort of obvious. But how does it effect the sites it links to? I'm thinking its effect would be nominal, but if a site was linked to from a lot of unatural sites then it would definately have a negative effect. But reflecting on your estimation of 15% chaos needed then as long as you maintain a decent amount of chaos (approx. 15%) from outside linking then you will be okay and those unatural links will still be of benifit. Most people including myself like to stick thier link trades at the bottom of the page all next to each other or down the side of the page, but all clumped together either way. You said this was unnatural. So to counter this you should put some links into your content as paragraphs (in a way that you would if you weren't trying to make money out of your site). I guess you would want your linking partners to do the same for you to give you some randomness for your inbound links - but I'm guessing most people are not going to do this. But I think its worthwhile to try to get some of your link partners to give you some more natural recips in paragraphs and get them to write it themselves and then you do the same for them, therefore giving both of you randomness on both your outbound and inbound links. I guess it would probably help if these were three way trades, maybe even four or fiveway trades to add to the randomness. Its something you did not discuss but I also think is a good idea is getting your link partners to occasionally link to the deeper pages on your site. This i think is more natural than index to index all the time. Also you will target different keywords in your link back text - again more natural. Well thats about all I have to say - it would be good if you could comment on it bill. __________________ Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files

2005-08-17, 09:53 PM	#3
Jeka My wife is not a doobie to be passed around! On our wedding day I promised to bogart her for life! Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 275	Argh, Bill can't you do the seo chat maybe 2-3 hours earlier? 5am is so hard to stay up

2005-08-18, 05:56 AM	#7
Fonz Former pr0n slinger. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Antwerp, Belgium Posts: 7,932	I can't wait to read the log file on this one __________________ See how I abuse little trees on my Shumi no Bonsai Blog

2005-08-18, 05:58 AM	#8
Jeka My wife is not a doobie to be passed around! On our wedding day I promised to bogart her for life! Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 275	It would be a good idea to start some small exchange networks i.e. 100 sites of the same niche in 1 list and every webmaster must link to 20 sites that he can randomly chose and come up with a random text link that must be approved by the site owner he links to. This way everybody would gets linked by the same amount of sites that he links to...

2005-08-18, 06:07 AM	#9
neveremail Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 504	thats not a bad idea Jeka but I;m not sure how easy it would be to get 100 sites together. __________________ Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files

2005-08-18, 11:04 AM	#10
Simon That which does not kill us, will try, try again. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conch Republic Posts: 5,150	I hope Bill catches this thread again too. Nevermail, I can tell you that I think you're on the right track with how you understood what was talked about last night. And your question about deeper linking is a good one. With some sites we encourage linking to our interior pages and love it when some will write a paragraph about something on that page and link to it from inside that paragraph text block. Simon __________________ "If you're happy and you know it, think again." -- Guru Pitka

2005-08-18, 11:10 AM	#11
neveremail Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 504	Well if anyone want to do those sorts of trades with me just hit me up - ICQ: 218094863 - email: webmaster (at) paradisebikinis.com I got another question to: A lot of sites have link pages - and many people use the text "links" or "more links" to link to thier link page. Do you think SEs pick up on that when you use that linking text and are more likely to consider your link page as a link dump and penalize you for it? __________________ Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files

2005-08-18, 01:41 PM	#12
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Moderators, would you move this to the search engine forum for us please? Thanks in advance. Jeka, I'm going to look into having the se chat at another time slot every other session - how about 7pm EST, is that a good time? Now, for the rest of it... You guys are throwing a few dozen questions at me here, really too many for me to do justice too, so if you could pick one question at a time that would make giving a good answer much more possible. Remember, all search engine work is pretty much voodoo. By that I mean it's done based largely on guesses and beliefs, on "What Might Work", because the SE's intentionally conceal their true methods and tricks. So, when I pick a figure like "15% chaos", that's just my guess, with a bit of fudge factor thrown in. I have reasons for making that guess, but it's still just a guess. I want to emphasize my main point last night, which is that when you see both a yahoo rep and a google rep in a strong agreement about something they are calling "natural linking", at a major SE conference, that's a very strong hint that "natural linking" is an anti-spam and ranking technique that they both think is important. For us, that means thinking about "natural linking" is probably going to be even more important if we want to rank well and make search engine money.

2005-08-18, 01:51 PM	#13
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	neveremail, in my experience "links" pages have always tended to be devalued a bit (by google at least). I have assumed it is because links pages are often similar to other links pages used by the same webmaster on other domains. But, becuase links pages tend to have a lot of text, often more text with rarer keywords than are on the main pages of the domain, they often end up getting a nice stream of traffic. I have never seen anything that I would call a "link dump" penalty for such pages. If there was, I'd have to think that the same types of penalties would be applied to all linklist cat pages, and I don't really see that when I look at the serps. So, my main concern with links pages is similarity - but personally, I tend to use links pages as a traffic tool, not as much to get SE traffic.