Do Surfers Know The Difference?

[Flex]

Do surfers know the difference between Free Sites and TGPs ?

I ask this question because I have noticed among the larger traffic link list there are alot who use Free Sites only and a small few who uses a hybrid of Free Sites and TGPs on there site.

Larger Traffic sites: Both=Tommys Bookmarks, Debauchery, PenisBot, Jays XXX, Smut Gremlins, Both=DD, Wet Place, and of course LOR.

My underline question is why aren’t there more of the hybrid link list sites? I would think this would bring more submits/content, more traffic, and more backlinks.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Bill]

The results of the marketplace suggest surfers prefer galleries.

But the reason for doing freesites is that it represents an effort to protect minors from too easy access to porn, thus protecting the parties involved from possible future obscenity prosecutions.

As a side effect it allows a bit more advertising, but the root reason is self-defense against any possible future waves of intolerance.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Flex

Do surfers know the difference between Free Sites and TGPs ?

Do you? TGP=Thumb Gallery Post

It's my understanding that the link lists of the golden era of internet porn listed pretty much anything that had pics, whether it be a gallery or a free site. Of course, free sites of yesteryear weren't what they are today. But then again, neither were the galleries. Just as galleries and free sites have evolved and become more refined, so have the sites which choose to either list them or not. Each owner, during this evolution, made the decision on what they would, our would not, list. The fact that most link lists today do not list galleries is probably due to the fact that they are all copies of the L-O-R.

[Greenguy]

Based on the fact that there are more TGP surfers than Link List surfers & based on the fact that Galleries have less pics than Free Sites, no, they don't know the differance....otherwise, they'd be surfing more Free Sites

[Flex]

Originally Posted by Bill

The results of the marketplace suggest surfers prefer galleries.

But the reason for doing freesites is that it represents an effort to protect minors from too easy access to porn, thus protecting the parties involved from possible future obscenity prosecutions.

As a side effect it allows a bit more advertising, but the root reason is self-defense against any possible future waves of intolerance.

I agree that their should be some sort of protection for children against harmful content which is why I happen like free sites very much. The additional 3 pages to advertise on just happens to be a pleasant bonus

As far as future waves of intolerance I would think that as long as the LL had a warning page or a clear warning at the top before any adult content was shown that it should meet there demands right ?.

[Flex]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Do you? TGP=Thumb Gallery Post

It's my understanding that the link lists of the golden era of internet porn listed pretty much anything that had pics, whether it be a gallery or a free site. Of course, free sites of yesteryear weren't what they are today. But then again, neither were the galleries. Just as galleries and free sites have evolved and become more refined, so have the sites which choose to either list them or not. Each owner, during this evolution, made the decision on what they would, our would not, list. The fact that most link lists today do not list galleries is probably due to the fact that they are all copies of the L-O-R.

So everyone saw LORs success and followed in his foot steps without trying any other way? I think I can get behind that reasoning but then again it might be time to try something new at least once. I don't know I may have to give it some more thought before I decide.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Flex

So everyone saw LORs success and followed in his foot steps without trying any other way?

Well of course. One of the standard keys to success is to model yourself after a successful industry icon. It makes good business sense. Plus, most new link lists are started by folks with only a few free sites under their belt and scant other knowledge. They tend not to know enough about the business to make any fruitful changes or improvements. Frankly, it doesn't matter what you list - it's almost unheard of for a new list to be able to compete with the originals.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Flex

So everyone saw LORs success and followed in his foot steps without trying any other way?...

My site is really just a copy of Richard's, so blame him for everything

[Flex]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Based on the fact that there are more TGP surfers than Link List surfers & based on the fact that Galleries have less pics than Free Sites, no, they don't know the differance....otherwise, they'd be surfing more Free Sites

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. TGP traffic compared to our is like 20 to 1 in unique visitors maybe more maybe less but link list traffic quality to there site is almost 5 to 10 times better. I have also seen some LLs that trade traffic trades with TGPs so I don’t see why TGP mixed in with LL traffic would be a bad thing. I think it would be the best of both worlds because you would get quality traffic sales and also more possible customers even if they just want to try it out first. I may be wrong and there is a strong possibility that I am but I would think more traffic usually equals more sales. I don’t mean blind traffic or redirected traffic from CJ sites but legit TGP traffic is not all bad or people wouldn't be still submitting to them.

I guess its all a matter of personal preference of the link list owner.

[Flex]

Originally Posted by Greenie

My site is really just a copy of Richard's, so blame him for everything

[Flex]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Well of course. One of the standard keys to success is to model yourself after a successful industry icon. It makes good business sense. Plus, most new link lists are started by folks with only a few free sites under their belt and scant other knowledge. They tend not to know enough about the business to make any fruitful changes or improvements. Frankly, it doesn't matter what you list - it's almost unheard of for a new list to be able to compete with the originals.

Yeah I agree with that business pratice which is why im a little unsure of how to start my new LL. I hear tons of people saying that Tommy’s traffic is like gold and everyone wants a DD submit pass so it makes me wonder which way is better because they have both free sites and tgps.

Also unlike many big LLs I see Tommy’s and DD’s site in the serps in more se's than some of the big LLs who only show free sites and are only in google. I see there sites in google, yahoo, and altavista etc… unlike other LLs who seem to only get listed in google. I was thinking there was some kind of penalty for having a LL because when you look at yahoo you see all TGPs at the top but I guess thats another topic for another thread

I appreciate all the informed and friendly advice you guys have given me. Thanks a lot.

P.S : No matter what GG and Bill say about you Useless I still think your one of the smartest guys around.

[Mr Exotic]

I did tgps and galleries for a while, I was into the more blind/traffic trading tgps and those are shit, nothing but a mess, at least for me anyways, lots of stress, lots of things to worry about like trade scripts and all that bullshit. My gallery posting income just kept going downhill and going downhill. The demise of my gallery income lead to me starting up with free sites. And for me personally I feel like I have found my calling in this biz with free sites

You want to know what sucks major balls? Having a tgp that is getting over 350k hits a day and making like 50$/day. TGP traffic is a VERY fickle beast. Put a couple ads up and your click ratio to trades goes down 40% and your site traffic falls into the shitter. I have been running sites where the slightest little change would totally fuck everything up. Oh and dont get me started on the thumbnail tgps, I have tried doing those at least 5 or 6 times and have failed miserably every single time. I dont know how many times I have heard, read, talked to someone, or personally had one of those thumbnail tgps that listed all hosted galleries with fancy rotating software, had over 100k/day in traffic and couldnt make at least 1 sale a day. And like I said if you do have 100k/day on one of those sites you better not even think about trying put any ads up because if you do the clicks go right into the shitter and your 100k site drops to 35k and all you end up sending that fucking ad that destroyed your traffic is maybe 100 or 200 hits a day and your lucky to get a sign up a month off it.

I am in the process of launching my first link list right now, yeah its alot more work to get a link list going than a tgp, but its just time consuming stuff that I dont really mind doing. Right now it has a small amount of traffic that I am sending thru it myself and got a couple good link trades going on it the last day or so and I have made 2 sign ups this week off this little brand new site that just has a trickle of traffic. And am sending more traffic to sponors everyday than I did with a 30-40k/day bs tgp. When I want to put in some more paysite links I dont have my head spinning with worries about oh shit how bad is this gonna fuck up my click %. I dont have to look at a trade script every few hours to make sure someone aint fucking with me.

I guess after rambling on and rambling on I'll get on with my point pertaining to the topic

From my personal experiences I would think that mixing traffic wouldnt be good at all for the linklist. The second one of those fickle tgp surfer bastards goes to a free site they are gonna be like WTF is this shit I dont see pictures and close the site. I personally think that TGP traffic is nothing but pollution in the link list/free site pool. I know there there are a few link lists sending traffic to TGPs because they might send the TGP 300-500 hits and get something ridiculous like 15-20k back. That TGP aint doing that because he's opening up a charity, he's doing that because the average TGP he trades with might have a click productivity of 300-400% and that might be a stretch. Well I can pretty much guarantee that link list has a click productivity of over 4000 to 6000% on the TGP.

I know back when I ran some huge bs tgps, I dont think I ever traded with a pure linklist, but if you could score a trade with one of the top super quality sites that was the whole key to growing your traffic. I know at one point I was sending Dr. Bizzaro something like 25-30k/day to get 5 or 6k back, but his 5 or 6k he was sending me was clicking around so much it was allowing me to send 80-90k/day to my other trades. His traffic had a hits out to trade productivity of over 1300% thats not counting the hits which was 2 out of 3 to galleries.

I guess there are a few rare exceptions of TGPs being real sites (like Dr Bizzaro) and not just traffic swaps, but there are not too many of them. The vast majority of the time tgp=circle jerk bullshit and linklist="real traffic"

Just so that its official: I HATE TGPs hahaha

[Bill]

Nice post, Mr Exotic. Well thought out, useful information, good examples.

[Mr Exotic]

Originally Posted by Bill

Nice post, Mr Exotic. Well thought out, useful information, good examples.

Thanks man, I just cringe when I think of mixing golden precious link list traffic with the massive piles of shit that are tgp traffic. Ya some of the super old school guys get a way with it, but they are already real sites and it doesnt matter a whole lot. But I am betting that on a hit for hit basis the old school only linklists do way better than the few old school quality tgp only or hybrid sites.


Hell I'm just glad all that made sense to someone, I have been up for 24 hours straight now and almost just said fuck it and deleted it all fearing I am half out of my mind because of lack of sleep.

[Xeno]

You know...what will be interesting is to see what new concepts will rise up over the 2007 year. There is something I accidently thought of just the other night and I was thinking, damn, should I or shouldn't I? One thing is for sure, TGP's have crap traffic and yes, you can have 350K traffic and $50 a day, but thats because with all the work we webmasters do, there will always be a wave of "gimmi" free porn..free porn FREE PORN surfers out there!!!!!

So if we generalize a break down what's available in the biz, again, it will be interesting over 2007 what and how these will progress -- or perhaps something new:

TGPs
Toplists
Link Lists
Link Directories
Blogs
Review Sites
Free Gallery Sites
Free Hosted Galleries

Personally, I think there's too much free porn out there, which takes sales away. Even some sponsors are notorious for putting tons of freebees in their tours. Why pay when you can view quick wack off fixes through 6, 8, 10, 12 pages of previews