A friendly debate on what is amateur .

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

Now , dreamnet , southern charms , and webhoneys are pay sites but they still have an amateur feel .

The reason I would never promote a Southern Charms site is, despite the painfully ugly template designs, the women providing the content only get 50% of the sales and don't own their content, and I prefer promoting people like me who run the show themselves. (When it comes to single-girl sites, anyway.) How is that any more "amateur" when a large company is selling content they bought from women, masquerading as personal DIY sites? The content may be low-brow, but I've never liked the dynamics of SC. Although, I have heard women like me who have their "real" site and then a little SC site, and say it brings in good amounts of cash for little effort and are happy with it. I just wouldn't want someone else owning my content and having control over a web site that's supposedly made by me and from my perspective.

On a side, speaking of painfully ugly designs, I'll never understand people who judge a web girl's worth based on how poorly-done her site is. There are the "militant amateur" folk who seem to think that any site that's well-done and have decent photography is just made by some "fake porn star bimbo" and not a "real person". Isn't the very essence of being a real person the ability to learn from mistakes and get better at the things we do? There must come a point for some people where they know how to take better photos and make more user-friendly sites, and they decide to purposefully keep it crappy to not lose their "amateur" appeal. Crazy.

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

The reason I would never promote a Southern Charms site is, despite the painfully ugly template designs, the women providing the content only get 50% of the sales and don't own their content, and I prefer promoting people like me who run the show themselves. (When it comes to single-girl sites, anyway.) How is that any more "amateur" when a large company is selling content they bought from women, masquerading as personal DIY sites? The content may be low-brow, but I've never liked the dynamics of SC. Although, I have heard women like me who have their "real" site and then a little SC site, and say it brings in good amounts of cash for little effort and are happy with it. I just wouldn't want someone else owning my content and having control over a web site that's supposedly made by me and from my perspective.

On a side, speaking of painfully ugly designs, I'll never understand people who judge a web girl's worth based on how poorly-done her site is. There are the "militant amateur" folk who seem to think that any site that's well-done and have decent photography is just made by some "fake porn star bimbo" and not a "real person". Isn't the very essence of being a real person the ability to learn from mistakes and get better at the things we do? There must come a point for some people where they know how to take better photos and make more user-friendly sites, and they decide to purposefully keep it crappy to not lose their "amateur" appeal. Crazy.

I dont think it's a matter of the site being crappy , I think its about the illusion of the girl being attainable.
as an amateur site becomes more and more proffesional in appearance it makes the girl appear to be less attainable > Like danny said in an earlier thread , many of the early amateur sites were started by swingers looking to show off or meet other swingers , THAT was the ultimat in attainability .
When what used to be a true amateur site in look and feel , with pics that looked like they were taking after a long night of drunk passion , only to slowely become a site were the AMATEUR frolics around in what looks like a palace or penthouse suite, you begin to loose what was once the image that "hey I could meet and bang this chick" .

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

I
When what used to be a true amateur site in look and feel , with pics that looked like they were taking after a long night of drunk passion , only to slowely become a site were the AMATEUR frolics around in what looks like a palace or penthouse suite, you begin to loose what was once the image that "hey I could meet and bang this chick" .

Don't take this as an insult, but it sounds like what you're looking for is "amateur porn" featuring poor people. You've repeatedly mentioned how you like beer bottles on tables, dead cigs in ashtrays, and "real" apartments as settings, but in actuality, that just sounds like a search for the cliche of a lower-class setting. I'm not a millionaire living in a penthouse suite, but I don't have trash lying around my house. Having a dirty apartment, to me, means nothing about content more than the fact that the people who live there are slobs, and I don't find junk and garbage in photos to be erotic, personally.

On a side, I do understand the desire for lower production values to entice surfers' fantasies that they "could" bang the featured babe. Not all of us who run our own sites are going for that, though, and I state several times on my site that I'm not available for sex and that I don't date people via my site. It's one of my most popular questions in chat and via email, and I'm always honest about my personal preferences. (Some folk, like Danny and Carol, regularly have call-outs on their site for regular joes to come have a gang bang, and that's great, as long as it's real and it makes everyone happy.) But, they have one of the very few sites run by "true swingers" who solicit participants from it and actually invite them over. For me, I like sex and I like being an exhibitionist, and I like being able to do those things from the safety of my home, in an environment I control. I think it's stupid to have a site set up to make it seem that the members could be invited over for a shag when the girl really doesn't want that, that's an element of dishonestly that I'm not cool with. I realize we sell fantasies, but it is entirely possible to make a living off selling porn that doesn't play on people' emotions or trick anyone into thinking they're getting more than content for their $18 a month, if indeed, they aren't.

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Don't take this as an insult, but it sounds like what you're looking for is "amateur porn" featuring poor people. You've repeatedly mentioned how you like beer bottles on tables, dead cigs in ashtrays, and "real" apartments as settings, but in actuality, that just sounds like a search for the cliche of a lower-class setting.

Who said anything about lower class? I'm not talking about a "trashed out" apartment , I'm simply talking about a place that looks LIVED IN .
My house is clean most of the time , but after I have a few buddies over, yes there will be dead cigs in the ashtray , and empty pizza box on the coffe table , or a few beer bottles in view. since when is that lower class ? I just go for a look that says" hey this was not planned a week in advance".

I'm not a millionaire living in a penthouse suite, but I don't have trash lying around my house. Having a dirty apartment, to me, means nothing about content more than the fact that the people who live there are slobs, and I don't find junk and garbage in photos to be erotic, personally.

Its not the junk thats erotic in and of itself , It's the feel it creates , the spur of the moment, the memories of college etc etc ....
In fact , when I first started the site I put much though into it. I used to sell used cars at one point and what i learned was the secret to selling anything is to put the customer in a pleasant and FAMILIER place.
So when selling internet sex ,I thought what place should I put the customer? And it hit me .
18 - 24 , that is the age in which MOST guys got the most sex with the least effort . That point in which all you need is your own place and the pussy train is rolling in . when girls have no exspectations of you (even older women) , and through the look and feel of my photographs I try to capture that memory and feeling. There is no time after that where sex is THAT easy. Think of it as a the next step to "girls gone wild" , you know, after you bring them home .
And I also later I started with other themes , like the first "live in" girlfriend , you when your still in love fucking like bunnies,sitting around all day eating pizza naked, and not arguing about bill's and other BS.
That is a reason I seldom have males in my pics, because I like the series of pics to be like a slidshow of a day with your virtual girlfriend.

On a side, I do understand the desire for lower production values to entice surfers' fantasies that they "could" bang the featured babe. Not all of us who run our own sites are going for that, though, and I state several times on my site that I'm not available for sex and that I don't date people via my site.

It's not you pers'e that your fans or potential fans want to have sex with (though I'm sure some do) , its the idea , or the image you project . By projecting an image that I could bang a chic LIKE her. The site I had didnt promote meeting the models , but the image of the type of woman you COULD meet(with the exeption of the models that were local strippers) .

It's one of my most popular questions in chat and via email, and I'm always honest about my personal preferences. (Some folk, like Danny and Carol, regularly have call-outs on their site for regular joes to come have a gang bang, and that's great, as long as it's real and it makes everyone happy.) But, they have one of the very few sites run by "true swingers" who solicit participants from it and actually invite them over.

Yes I agree , in the past there were alot more but things change , and not always for the better.

For me, I like sex and I like being an exhibitionist, and I like being able to do those things from the safety of my home, in an environment I control. I think it's stupid to have a site set up to make it seem that the members could be invited over for a shag when the girl really doesn't want that, that's an element of dishonestly that I'm not cool with.

I agree , but like I said , its not about meeting your members , its about promoting an IMAGE of attainability , meaning this is the TYPE of woman I could hook up with.

I realize we sell fantasies, but it is entirely possible to make a living off selling porn that doesn't play on people' emotions or trick anyone into thinking they're getting more than content for their $18 a month, if indeed, they aren't.

I agree , there should be no tricking people .

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

Who said anything about lower class? I'm not talking about a "trashed out" apartment , I'm simply talking about a place that looks LIVED IN .
My house is clean most of the time , but after I have a few buddies over, yes there will be dead cigs in the ashtray , and empty pizza box on the coffe table , or a few beer bottles in view. since when is that lower class ? I just go for a look that says" hey this was not planned a week in advance".

I'm not saying everyone who doesn't live in an immaculately clean home is a welfare recipient, or that every low-income person is filthy. You've repeatedly used the image of having garbage lying around the scene as a good indication of the "real amateur" status of content, and as I said before, that just feels like you're looking for the *cliche* of lower-class surroundings. Call me a snob, but I suppose I do stereotype leaving garbage sitting around in one's home to be a "trashy" thing, pardon the pun.

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

Its not the junk thats erotic in and of itself , It's the feel it creates , the spur of the moment, the memories of college etc etc ....

Well, I think we're just arguing about taste at this point. It really sounds like since *you* personally feel sexually comfortable in messy "lived in" surroundings, you assume that's what everyone else likes the most.

I also love porn sites made by the people they feature, people you can interact with and get to know a a bit, but I still thinks it's gross to purposefully not clean up when shooting content. It doesn't feel "spontaneous" to me, it just feels lazy and gross.

For example, I shot a set a few weeks ago in a part of my hall where my cat box normally is. Would it have been sexier of me to leave the cat box there, kitty poops and all, in full view while I played with my pussy? No, because that's gross. A web girl friend and I have this one "amateur" photo we've repeatedly gotten a laugh from and been grossed out by because you can see the chick's filthy, dropping-laden bird cage in the frame and she bends over and spreads. I swear, I'm not alone in my interest in cleaning up my surroundings before taking pictures.

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

I agree , but like I said , its not about meeting your members , its about promoting an IMAGE of attainability , meaning this is the TYPE of woman I could hook up with.

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

I agree , there should be no tricking people .

I don't see a difference between "promoting the image" that a model is available for banging and "tricking" the viewer into thinking she's available for banging.

I would like to think I run a reasonably successful "amateur" site, and I work to NOT make people think they have a chance with me. I really don't think you need to use any element of tricky or deceit or "image projection" to run a good single girl site.

[sbm4latinaz]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

I'm not saying everyone who doesn't live in an immaculately clean home is a welfare recipient, or that every low-income person is filthy. You've repeatedly used the image of having garbage lying around the scene as a good indication of the "real amateur" status of content, and as I said before, that just feels like you're looking for the *cliche* of lower-class surroundings. Call me a snob, but I suppose I do stereotype leaving garbage sitting around in one's home to be a "trashy" thing, pardon the pun.

Thats funny , when I had my first site my first series of pics were taken in collage dorms (I lived walking distance from a university), and the pics were taken in the apartments and dorms of upper middle class - slightly rich trust fund babies, during and after parties(you see in collage they did the most partying because they had jobs waiting on them after college so they partied all the time and made C's),

Well, I think we're just arguing about taste at this point. It really sounds like since *you* personally feel sexually comfortable in messy "lived in" surroundings, you assume that's what everyone else likes the most.

Actually I dont feel comfortable in trash lol, but sometimes things happen(thought comes to mind of that sex scene on "moonlighting" when bruce willis , and cybell sheperd destroy the house making love),
I guess I try to go for that partying batchler feel.

I also love porn sites made by the people they feature, people you can interact with and get to know a a bit, but I still thinks it's gross to purposefully not clean up when shooting content. It doesn't feel "spontaneous" to me, it just feels lazy and gross.

And thats your choice , you view things different than me and thats fine. Infact I could'nt live that way now myself , but at the time when i was getting laid the easiest thats how things were , and I just try to recreate that feel. Every guy reading this remembers their FIRST apartment. No frame on their bed , TV on milk crates , nothing but beer and pizza in the fridge, etc etc , and for some reason that was the time inwhich sex was at its easiest to come by .

For example, I shot a set a few weeks ago in a part of my hall where my cat box normally is. Would it have been sexier of me to leave the cat box there, kitty poops and all, in full view while I played with my pussy? No, because that's gross. A web girl friend and I have this one "amateur" photo we've repeatedly gotten a laugh from and been grossed out by because you can see the chick's filthy, dropping-laden bird cage in the frame and she bends over and spreads. I swear, I'm not alone in my interest in cleaning up my surroundings before taking pictures.

and thats your choice.

I don't see a difference between "promoting the image" that a model is available for banging and "tricking" the viewer into thinking she's available for banging.

I would like to think I run a reasonably successful "amateur" site, and I work to NOT make people think they have a chance with me. I really don't think you need to use any element of tricky or deceit or "image projection" to run a good single girl site.

And you dont have to, maybe I phrased myself wrong , think of it like reminding someone of someone they did bang.
When my friends are over and we are drinkin and surfing porn , the pics that really get the convo going are the ones that make one of us say "hey dont that remind you of maria? you know at that party at paco's apartment?" or " hey dont that remind you of the stripper andre was seeing after graduation?"

And again , My house is very clean , when I bring a girl over they always say it doesnt look like a single guys house but.. the room I shoot in is nicknamed "The Dorm" a pic is below .

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by sbm4latinaz

Every guy reading this remembers their FIRST apartment. No frame on their bed , TV on milk crates , nothing but beer and pizza in the fridge, etc etc , and for some reason that was the time inwhich sex was at its easiest to come by .

*Sigh*. I'm not trying to be insulting, it's just not a big leap of logic to assume that if you dislike like porn made in a "palace or penthouse suite" (upper class environment), and you do like porn with empty beer bottles, dead cigs, and empty pizza boxes lying around in a "lived in" apartment, then it's safe to call that an interest in porn which appears to be made in a *stereotype* of a lower class environment.

I think we're just going to disagree on this one. You're making a mistake in assuming that *all* guys relate to messy spaces because *you* relate to messy spaces. It's okay to like what you like, but I think very few people agree with you on this one. (Perhaps just enough, though, that you could run a good niche site from it.)

You're also assuming that all guys are like you, in that it was easiest to get laid in college. Plenty of guys, I imagine, find that after they move out of the messy dorms, stop relying on pizza and booze for breakfast, and get real careers, the babes are more likely to flock to them than to some dirty college boy with empty food containers all over his bedroom. I surely would pick the post-college dude, and I know that lots of females do prefer older guys, perhaps largely because they're not messy and can take care of themselves as adults.

I called 5 of my male friends just now, and they all agreed they don't like the idea of beer bottles, cigarette butts, and empty pizza boxes in their porn. One made the point that if he saw that, he'd start wondering what the girl smelled like, and how unclean in general she was, and what other gross stuff might be outside the frame contributing to the apartment and girl smelling bad. Another said that no girl he knows has that stuff lying around in her room, because girls are clean and pretty, so he'd think it was weird if a hot chick was getting horny in a messy space. Another wondered who the heck notices the backgrounds in porn, but that he wouldn't prefer porn made in unclean places.