Anyone here feel best qualified to be point man with the FSC?

[RawAlex]

Sadly, it looks like other people are on the move on this issue, and we are barely even talking:

http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?P...tent_ID=259202

Can someone get to cambria before he goes and volunteers us to have complicated and mostly overblown labels all over our sites?

Alex

[Ms Naughty]

Eeeek!
*Runs around in circles screaming*
Spike! Spiiiiiiike!
Perhaps we can whip up a statement to send them?

[Ms Naughty]

OK, I stopped running in circles and threw together this draft statement-type-thing.

Feel free to say it's shite, if necessary. I just thought it might be a start. Now I have to get back to work.
-----------------

We, as adult webmasters are eager to prevent minors from accessing our material.

We believe that a rating system, rather than an AVS, is the best way to do this.

The results of a poll reveal that a majority of webmasters favor a simple meta tag as the best way to prevent children from accessing sites that are obviously adult. This is a simple self-rating system that can be easily adopted by adult webmasters and can, we believe, be used in addition to the existing ICRA PICS rating system.

The ICRA system can be used to rate “borderline” sites that may need more specific labeling, as an alternative to, or in addition to, the simple meta tag.

We are prepared to lobby other webmasters to take up labeling and will encourage the use of labels through rules on linklists and TGPs.

-------------

I also had the idea about affiliate programs asking affiliates to label their sites, but that's just another vague thought...

Edit: Maybe this post belongs in the label poll thread. And maybe ICRA doesn't want statements sent to their "invitation only" meetings. My apologies if this post is kind of off topic.

[MeatPounder]

So the rep has to be a west coast webmaster?
They cuts out 90% of the link list view you are looking for

[MeatPounder]

Originally Posted by Bill

The FSC is an older style organization. They do most of their business in face to face meetings and phone calls.

If so, then they are not the ones to represent webmasters. We need an organization that is in the 21st century.

So, the ideal point man would be able to attend meetings. I guess that means they should live in California.

No, we should choose the best person to represent our concerns, not one that is most convenient for the FSC

The FSC contact doesn't have to do all these things, actually. Really, their most important job would be to attend some meetings and do phone work with the existing FSC organization.

No, the most important job would be as a liason between webmasters and the FCS

1. The FSC Contact needs to be able to attend some meetings in California.

Why?


2. The FSC Contact needs to be able to become something of a board personality.

3. The FSC Contact needs to be able to do well on the phone.[/quote]

[Bill]

I guess we had best start to examine the Adult Freedom Foundation:

Which at my first quick view seems to be mostly Paul Cambria himself.

http://www.adultfreedomfoundation.org/

Their statement has a bit of potential, despite being all caps.

---------------------------------------------
NEW GROUP FIGHTS FOR FREEDOMS

LOS ANGELES, CALIF. PROTECTING FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND COUNTERING ATTACKS ON THE ADULT ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY IS THE MISSION OF THE NEWLY CREATED “ADULT FREEDOM FOUNDATION.”

“ALL TOO OFTEN THE ADULT ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY HAS BEEN THE TARGET OF MISINFORMATION AND UNFOUNDED CRITICISM,” SAID ATTY. PAUL CAMBRIA, GENERAL COUNSEL.

“THE ADULT FREEDOM FOUNDATION WILL SPEAK WITH A NEW VOICE. WE PLAN TO SUPPLY ACCURATE AND POSITIVE INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC FOR A CHANGE,” HE SAID.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, THE GROUP WANTS TO WORK WITH THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA IN GETTING OUR MESSAGE OUT.

THE GROUP WILL PROVIDE MEDIA AND GOVERNMENT ACCESS TO LEGAL, SCIENTIFIC AND INDUSTRY EXECUTIVES TO COUNTER BALANCE BOGUS CLAIMS BY AMBITIOUS POLITICANS, RIGHT WING GROUPS AND OTHERS.

THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY AND NOW IT’S TIME FOR OUR SIDE TO BE TOLD TOO.

AFF IS GOING TO BE A WATCH DOG ORGANIZATION FOR THE ADULT ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY.

OUR STAFF WILL SOUND OFF LOUD AND CLEAR WHEN WE SPOT MISINFORMATION OR ATTACKS ON LAWFUL ADULT ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY ACTIVITIES.

FREQUENTLY RIGHT WING GROUPS ATTEMPT TO CO MINGLE ILLEGAL CHILD PORNORGRAPHY WITH LAWFUL ADULT ENTERTAINMENT IN AN ATTEMPT TO OUTLAW BOTH.

THE AFF FORMED BY SEVERAL MAJOR NATIONAL COMPANIES, INCLUDING THOSE FROM THE ADULT ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY, IS DEDICATED TO FIGHTING CHILD PORNOGRAPHY.

WHILE ADMANTLY AGAINST CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, AFF BELIEVES ADULTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO ENJOY EROTIC ENTERTAINMENT.

AND, THAT THE AVERAGE ADULT ACCEPTS THAT RIGHT FOR OTHER ADULTS TO CHOOSE LAWFUL EROTIC ENTERTAINMENT.
---------------------

[Ms Naughty]

LOL
“THE ADULT FREEDOM FOUNDATION WILL SPEAK WITH A NEW VOICE," he shouted.

Damn, it's hard to read things in capital letters.

Even so, it's a decent enough mission statement.

[Bill]

Meatpounder, we can't know yet if the FSC is the right organization to ally with, we're still in the stage of gathering information.

However, our choices of which organizations to ally with are not large. We've already made an impact on the FSC because of the rush of webmaster memberships related to 2257. Thats a kind of investment on our part. Before we throw away that investment I would say we should try to give the FSC some new tasks and see how well they can carry out our political wishes.

I'm open to suggestions as to other organizations that could be of use.

An older face&phone organization might be exactly what we need. Congress is all about connections, who you know, and Congress is an even older school face&phone system.

So having some old school face&phone types as 'hired guns' might be exactly what we need.

It's possible that everything we need could be done without going to meetings.

[Bill]

Far-L, when can Spike come here and talk to us a bit about this?

It would be good to have him start a thread about the FSC, so he can tell us what his impressions of the FSC are, and we can ask him questions.

Where does Spike usually hang out on the net, what board does he post at most?

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Spike has certainly shown in the past to be good at this sort of thing, and homegrown certainly does bridge the gap between the walmarts and the indies.

Alex

Thanks!

I like to think that we bridge the gap between the old brick and mortar and the online worlds too...

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by MeatPounder

So the rep has to be a west coast webmaster?
They cuts out 90% of the link list view you are looking for

No but it is a good idea... Obviously if you want to lobby at the federal level you need to have lobbyists in Washington. Similarly, if you want the best FSC representation then you want to have not just a voice but a face too at the FSC meetings - which are generally in California.

The only people that really should concern themselves with what the FSC can do for them are FSC members.

The FSC, first and foremost, is a trade organization that works on behalf of its membership. They are not the ACLU and it is a lucky coincidence that much of their work goes on to benefit all the others that are not members.

When you all are asking this representation let me ask in return - are you all members? I seriously don't think it is fair to demand something of an organization that you are not making a commitment to in return.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Far-L

No but it is a good idea... Obviously if you want to lobby at the federal level you need to have lobbyists in Washington. Similarly, if you want the best FSC representation then you want to have not just a voice but a face too at the FSC meetings - which are generally in California.

The only people that really should concern themselves with what the FSC can do for them are FSC members.

The FSC, first and foremost, is a trade organization that works on behalf of its membership. They are not the ACLU and it is a lucky coincidence that much of their work goes on to benefit all the others that are not members.

When you all are asking this representation let me ask in return - are you all members? I seriously don't think it is fair to demand something of an organization that you are not making a commitment to in return.

It's thinking like this that reaffirms my position that independent webmasters hold the keys to their own destiny. Collective representation is more monotheistic than most people realize. I will never support the FSC.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Surfn

It's thinking like this that reaffirms my position that independent webmasters hold the keys to their own destiny. Collective representation is more monotheistic than most people realize. I will never support the FSC.

No problem. If you think indie webmasters can do what a professional organization can that is made up of many with similar interests then have at it. To the best of my recollection, no indie company stepped up to dealing with the feds alone in the 2257 proceedings.

A trade organization like FSC is not "monotheistic". It is democratic and all paying members have voting privileges.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Far-L

When you all are asking this representation let me ask in return - are you all members? I seriously don't think it is fair to demand something of an organization that you are not making a commitment to in return.

I have been assuming that everyone seriously involved in this discussion so far are members.

One of the big questions, or perhaps positions is a better word, has been "Should we renew our memberships when they come up this summer, and can we use the power of those renewals (or choosing not to renew) to get the FSC to communicate with us more and take some of the actions we want to see.".

If there isn't more communication between the FSC and onliners I think a large number of webmasters who joined over 2257 will let their memberships lapse.

And if the FSC doesn't add an online CC processor for memberships and donations, I think a lot of webmasters will also let their memberships lapse.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Bill

I have been assuming that everyone seriously involved in this discussion so far are members.

One of the big questions, or perhaps positions is a better word, has been "Should we renew our memberships when they come up this summer, and can we use the power of those renewals (or choosing not to renew) to get the FSC to communicate with us more and take some of the actions we want to see.".

If there isn't more communication between the FSC and onliners I think a large number of webmasters who joined over 2257 will let their memberships lapse.

And if the FSC doesn't add an online CC processor for memberships and donations, I think a lot of webmasters will also let their memberships lapse.

Great points, thanks.

I think the success so far of the 2257 rebuttal is reason to stay with the organization - and like I have said in other threads, the are many other successes the FSC has achieved on behalf of its members that make it worthwhile.

The online join is a great idea and I will bring that to Tom Hymes personally, find out the status, and come back to this thread with an update.

[RawAlex]

Far-L, the FSC needs to clean up some of the very basic things before they can move on to really representing us properly.

First off, let me say this: I am not currently an FSC member. However, I have a closet filled with everything FSC has ever offered at the shows, and I routinely toss a large bill in the bin at every show. The trade shows I have been involved with have always supported and helped the FSC to be at the shows and give them the time and space to discuss their issues.

I am not a member, and the reasons are simple:

1) The membership rates need to be clarified and made SIMPLE to understand, and they must reflect the business we are in online. Free site/ gallery builder - single paysite owner / solo amateur site operator - program owner - content provider - services provider (hosting etc) - independant worker (graphic artists, site designs, etc). Set the rates, publish them, make them reasonable, and get everyone under the umbrella.

2) Make signup online work. This isn't a big deal, I am sure that the major processors would gladly provide services at reasonable, reduced, or even cost price rates.

3) FSC needs to put someone in charge of communication to the online community, and make an effort to not only provide the news "when it breaks" but to put a regular flow of information in the hands of it's members. If commercial organizations like AVN and XBIZ can get the mail out there (and every other program in the universe mails regularly) why can't FSC get to it?

4) Work more on not only informing webmasters and movie people about what is going on, but also to provide a public information site where we woudl feel comfortable sending surfers to make them better informed about what is going on and how acts of the US government could limit thier access to the porn they enjoy.

At this point, I think the FSC is running so fast that it doesn't have time to focus on finding it's focus and working to do what organizations need to do: Represent and listen to it's members.

Alex

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Far-L, the FSC needs to clean up some of the very basic things before they can move on to really representing us properly.

First off, let me say this: I am not currently an FSC member. However, I have a closet filled with everything FSC has ever offered at the shows, and I routinely toss a large bill in the bin at every show. The trade shows I have been involved with have always supported and helped the FSC to be at the shows and give them the time and space to discuss their issues.

I am not a member, and the reasons are simple:

1) The membership rates need to be clarified and made SIMPLE to understand, and they must reflect the business we are in online. Free site/ gallery builder - single paysite owner / solo amateur site operator - program owner - content provider - services provider (hosting etc) - independant worker (graphic artists, site designs, etc). Set the rates, publish them, make them reasonable, and get everyone under the umbrella.

2) Make signup online work. This isn't a big deal, I am sure that the major processors would gladly provide services at reasonable, reduced, or even cost price rates.

3) FSC needs to put someone in charge of communication to the online community, and make an effort to not only provide the news "when it breaks" but to put a regular flow of information in the hands of it's members. If commercial organizations like AVN and XBIZ can get the mail out there (and every other program in the universe mails regularly) why can't FSC get to it?

4) Work more on not only informing webmasters and movie people about what is going on, but also to provide a public information site where we woudl feel comfortable sending surfers to make them better informed about what is going on and how acts of the US government could limit thier access to the porn they enjoy.

At this point, I think the FSC is running so fast that it doesn't have time to focus on finding it's focus and working to do what organizations need to do: Represent and listen to it's members.

Alex

Tremendous feedback and excellent suggestions! I will bring these things up as well.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I think the success so far of the 2257 rebuttal is reason to stay with the organization...

I agree. The FSC stepped up to the plate on 2257 and aceived a success which benefits every webmaster in the business, including non-US webmasters and non-FSC members.

It wasn't a perfect and ideal process, and you'll hear complaints about it, but the bottom line is still - the FSC fought the feds on 2257 and got the result webmasters wanted, which was protection for secondary producers.

This is the big reason that I think we should ally with the FSC, and try to make it "THE webmasters trade organization".

Do you know who is behind the Adult Freedom Foundation and Paul Cambria, Far-L?

[SirMoby]

Yes, I'm a member and I think no matter what the FSC deserves support from everyone that is benefiting from their efforts. Lack of online signup is an excuse and not a reason for nonsupport.

Are they perfect? Nope, but who else is stepping up to fight the legal battle for the right to free speech and privacy?

As RawAlex points out you don't have to be a member to support them. I would like them to improve many things but they are doing what is most important and that is protecting people from the legal nut cases that feel rights are only for those identical to themselves.

I will request 2 things before I renew though.

1. They keep fighting the legal battles just like they are now. No need to change things.

2. Get back in front of the Senate and correct the false statements. Such as explaining that most responsible webmasters are labeling their sites, that AVS cannot work based on today's technology and that we are more then happy to work on a better labeling system that can be easily adopted by all sites including news sites.

To me that's what's most important.

[Greenguy]

Jim & I (the board) are members, but I forget in what capacity because the membership form/costs have change 2 or 3 times since we became members.

I think I registered as my company with the board as my primary domain? In any event, Jim & I are members

[Bill]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Lack of online signup is an excuse and not a reason for nonsupport.

It's not an excuse, it's a political demand.

I plan on not renewing my membership unless I can do it online.

And I will be trying to persuade others to do likewise.

Politics is all about symbolism and messages. The symbolism of not having an online method to take memberships and donations is profound.

It says, loudly and unmistakeably, "We don't give a fuck about you onliners.".

It is a core issue. A line in the sand. If they can't get their shit together enough to install a goddamn CC processor they are not worthy of onliner support.

I am totally committed to this position.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Bill

It's not an excuse, it's a political demand.

I plan on not renewing my membership unless I can do it online.

Using an online processor for $100s of dollars where nothing is actually shipped has charge back written all over it. I would have concerns about accepting $300 from webmasters that understand chargebacks. Wouldn't you if it was your business?

[cd34]

The FSC could ship a document with membership card Return Receipt Requested.

[RawAlex]

Sirmoby, the online signup doesn't have to be "with nothing shipped". Heck, they could ship a small membership package and information to each new member (or a Tshirt who cares) if they think it is an issue. Taking the signup over the phone isn't making it much more secure when you think about it.

The other thing is that membership wouldn't have to be $300 if they had more members. With a membership fee of $50 or $100, they would attract many more webmasters under the umbrella of the group. Putting the membership fee so high (especially for people who just build galleries or free sites) just encourages people to NOT join the game.

"friends of FSC" memberships would go a long way to getting people on the team and supporting the group.

Alex

[Toby]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Using an online processor for $100s of dollars where nothing is actually shipped has charge back written all over it. I would have concerns about accepting $300 from webmasters that understand chargebacks. Wouldn't you if it was your business?

Sorry SirMoby but you're all wet on this one. An FSC membership isn't like a pay site membership where you can download all the content in a few days. The value is in being a member, not in having been a member. Chargebacks is a non-issue.

Cost is also a non-issue. The number of additional people that would join if there were an online registration available would offset any costs for the CC processing many times over.

It's simply a matter of making it a priority and getting it done.