What do you think about these?

[sue-fl]

Originally Posted by Simon

I could say a lot in this thread about "consensual non-consent" and how we sometimes play out these scenes in the bdsm lifestyles. But that's not the point here. There are a lot of scenes I've been involved in which I'd never want to see on film. Some things just don't translate well to the screen, and in today's political climate it's a risky choice to include what will be perceived as violence against women even by experienced, professional adult webmasters.

I'd like to live in a world where as long as there's a document somewhere attesting to the age and the consent of all parties in a scene, then it's fine to show them doing just about anything that's legal. Unfortunately we're very far from that world.

Thanks Simon, I love it when someone posts along the same lines as I'm thinking. And posts it so well

I did not see the video it was 404 on me also. I can think of quite a few scenes between my husband and I that would come across as totally opposite as what they are meant to be. Which may look painful or degrading to women but that is not the case at all it's all consensual.

Oh and I like the design and think it fits well with the content!

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Simon

...There are very, very few video makers out there who can shoot something that absolutely appears non-consensual but know how to include the minutes of lead in and lead out that leaves you feeling like that you didn't just watch a crime in progress...

I thought abot that while reading this thread last night & this morning & it is a very good point - I know I feel a sense of relief when I see those scenes, especially the after clips where everyone is smiling & happy.

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

...while I agree that as an industry we need to protect ourselves by not tolerating producers who push the envelope repeatedly; industry aside, do we not have moral and ethical responsibilities as well? What goes on between two truly consenting adults behind closed doors cannot begin to compare with the situation on a set where money, strangers and apathy are involved....

Why not?

And who draws the line & where do they draw it?

*****

Does everyone realize that we could have this exact same conversation with INSERT NICHE HERE THAT YOU DO NOT LIKE OR UNDERSTAND?

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by Simon

I'd like to live in a world where as long as there's a document somewhere attesting to the age and the consent of all parties in a scene, then it's fine to show them doing just about anything that's legal. Unfortunately we're very far from that world.

that's pretty much where I'm at too. I'm a woman, and I did see the clip. It was very graphic, pretty shocking, and it did disturb me, but I've seen much more violent and disturbing scenes in recent movies, scenes that almost made me physically ill. If it weren't for the sick percentage of people that would think it's real, or acceptable to act out without consent, I'm all for whatever 2 adults do etc...

Unfortunately, with the way society is today I am not anywhere near morally comfortable with promoting this kind of material, or even having it produced. If things were different, I'd probably feel differently, but right now the way things are, I don't think it's acceptable.

I just can't understand how they can make movies (and games) with the level of graphic psychological and physical violence that I've seen lately and then turn around and say this is worse. At best, that's hypocritical, at worst it's desensitizing a whole generation to really extreme violent behavour and that really concerns me.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

'Consenting adults' is a pretty subjective term. I can't tell you how many models give their 'consent' by signing a model release before a shoot, then have the shoot take a whole new turn than they had expected, or been led to expect. ...>SNIP<... Even by the time she signs a closing addendum, she's not going to refuse to say what they want her to, when her paycheck is still in the producer's hand. ...>SNIP<...Needing' this check constitutes a certain level of duress, or at the very minimum, pressure to perform. Very few of these young women (or men) have the inner strength to stand up and walk out the door without that money.

I know that things can go that way. Just to clarify something I posted earlier in this thread, when I mentioned a document in which all parties to an upcoming "consensual non-consent" scene agree to it, I didn't mean the standard model releases that most producers use. The kind of docs I was referring to are very, very specific about what someone can expect to have happen to them, including a wide range of things that may or may not occur.

One interesting thing is that outside of the adult biz filming "extreme" scenes, many "consensual non-consent" scenes are staged at the request of the petitioner, the one who will be on the receiving end that is. They often even have their own 'terms and conditions' all listed out and ready to go. Humiliation and degradation are sometimes high on the list, even as "must haves." As some folks say, it's not their first rodeo.

(There's also a whole lifestyle built around "consensual non-consent" a.k.a. Total Power Exchange, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.)

What goes on between two truly consenting adults behind closed doors cannot begin to compare with the situation on a set where money, strangers and apathy are involved.

While I understand your point, and know that this may be the gist of the situation today, I would suggest that unless we find a way to make those two dynamics merge, we are going to have to continue to settle for porn like most of what's out there now.

Personally I'm tired of fake lesbians, fake orgasms, fake cum, and fake bondage that you could shrug out of. Or spanking scenes focusing on reddening asses instead of the interplay between players or how the reactions on the face of the spanked partner fluctuate between pain and pleasure.

Mostly, I wish porn producers would learn more about their various audiences real likes and dislikes and stop filling the net with the same boringly repetitive crap. Extreme isn't the only way to go when you want a strong reaction, but it's definitely easier than studying people and finding out where their real hot buttons are.

Damn... this is about 3x as long as I meant to say.

Oh well, too late now to do anything but stop with a

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by Greenie

And who draws the line & where do they draw it?

GG, you don't promote Sc@t? Why is that?

DD

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

GG, you don't promote Sc@t? Why is that?

DD

There's a lot of material that I am not comfortable with - some I do promote & some I don't. I could care less if two people enjoy shitting or pissing to slapping or whipping or spitting or clamping or binding or sitting or bleeding to or on each other. But they do have the right to do it

Do you enjoy gay sex?

[DangerDave]

No I don't enjoy gay sex.. in fact it scares the shit out of me

DD

[Greenguy]

Do you promote gay sex sites?

[DangerDave]

All jokes aside...

There are... as always many issues within this thread...

No one here said that what two people do consesually in their own bedroom is under question.

No one here is questioning the legallity of what is "shot" on video by consenting models.


Two things are being questioned.

The "morality" of the acts depicted in that video.
and
wether the promotion of such content in our business is wise, sensible or judicious.

The morality question is always going to be and individual descision, but the "business" decision is debatable here. and has bearing on all of us.

While not "illegal", there is a defintion(partial) of obscene in the US(where our major markets are) and the question is..

Would the authorities pursue legal action over such content
Would they use it as a 'weapon' in influencing public opinion towards our industry.
etc..

These things have bearing on all our businesses...


As stated... IMO the content was a degrading assault on the model, and has no place in our industry.

Lets send the video to the DOJ and see what they think


DD

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Do you promote gay sex sites?

Yes I do... but I dont look at them! |shocking|

DD

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

...Two things are being questioned.

The "morality" of the acts depicted in that video.
and
wether the promotion of such content in our business is wise, sensible or judicious....

1 - morality & pornography in the same discussion always makes me giggle

2 - I agree that it's not the greatest thing in the world to be putting out the the public.

So, I think the real question here is: Why are we arguing?

[MrYum]

Upon further review...and with a cooler head. (That vid really did piss me off...probably shouldn't have let it)

First off, a sincere thanks to those that posted their views in this thread. It did get me to step back from the initial anger and realize there are some women who genuinely enjoy and consent to that treatment.

While I personally still find that kind of behavior towards women reprehensible, that's my bag. If someone enjoys that at home...more power to em.

I suppose if the girl had come out at the end of the clip and said...'hey stud thanks for smacking me around and choking me', I 'might' have viewed it differently.

That said, I still think it's an absolutely horrible idea to be putting content like that online in todays legal environment...as it really plays into the hands of the right wing

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Yes I do... but I dont look at them! |shocking|

DD

One of the most profound Useless Warrior review tips came when I asked him about his technique for reviewing his gay porn category. I believe his reply was something akin to

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I review my gay submits with only one eye open!

[Licker4U]

I certainly didn't see anything consensual in that girls face when she got the shit slapped out of her. There was genuine pain and disbelief. And when the guy was actually choking her, he wasn't acting. I saw real terror in her eyes as she was trying to get air. She may be an "actress", but no one is that good. Is filming and distributing that kind of content illegal? I don't know. But like Mr. Yum said, something went off in me when I saw it. |shocking| It wasn't like seeing a gay site and going "yuck" and hitting the back button. If it didn't break any laws then they have the right to produce it and society can decide to watch or not to watch. We need a legal opinion.

[[BV]]

Watch this if you have not already: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ows/porn/view/

PS: PBS needs a new web designer. Just click on #1 clip on the right to start.

[Lot]

The design is ok...i would not change it

[juggernaut]

I just saw this link from the news letter and read the thread. I guess the content has changed as those vids are now just normal content. I don't watch violent videos of any kind. since I saw "Faces Of Death" as a young kid it always freaked me out how fucked up people are. The current horror movies are not horror movies, they are just chop and slop movies. Shock value flicks that make me want to turn my head from watching. Not a flick that has me watching then scares the shit out of me in a split second. Interesting I just watched "Guns of Navarone" the other day and there is a scene that scared me more then any movie I have seen in a while. It was stupid, the guy is climbing a cliff and a bird suddenly flies out from the cliff with a loud shreek. Had me jump from my seat and I love it. But it was harmless.

But on this topic of violent sex videos. I don't understand why these videos can't be made like some of the sponsers are making vids where the last video shows the two consenting adults and how they both enjoyed the experience. If it's one thing I don't understand about violent content is how the sponser/filming crew don't feel any responsibility for the dumbing down of our youth. My younger friends (early 20's) think those chop and slop movies today are normal and no big deal. I can't help but think that if you see something more and more you become so amune to it that you can do it yourself. Some younger people watching crazy videos might think it's cool to give something a try like beating the shit out of a girl without her consent, film it and try to get a laugh with their buddies. Next thing you see is the people crying how they were just making a joke and should not go to jail or how they saw it on a show and were just doing what they saw on the show.
As far as the design goes, not sure how the first sites looked but these look fine.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by juggernaut

...But on this topic of violent sex videos. I don't understand why these videos can't be made like some of the sponsers are making vids where the last video shows the two consenting adults and how they both enjoyed the experience..

I don't think anyone has seen any of those videos in their entirety, so we really don't know if they have that at the beginning or end.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

...If it's one thing I don't understand about violent content is how the sponser/filming crew don't feel any responsibility for the dumbing down of our youth. My younger friends (early 20's) think those chop and slop movies today are normal and no big deal. I can't help but think that if you see something more and more you become so amune to it that you can do it yourself. Some younger people watching crazy videos might think it's cool to give something a try like beating the shit out of a girl without her consent, film it and try to get a laugh with their buddies. Next thing you see is the people crying how they were just making a joke and should not go to jail or how they saw it on a show and were just doing what they saw on the show...

Republicans think that about all porn as well as most "questionable" TV shows, violent video games, music with explicit lyrics......

[juggernaut]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I don't think anyone has seen any of those videos in their entirety, so we really don't know if they have that at the beginning or end.

https://www.kinkydollars.com/ I have not seen 100% of all their content but most if it for all their sites shows the couple at the end talking about their enjoyable experience in the video and how it is consensual. There stuff can get rather crazy.

[juggernaut]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Republicans think that about all porn as well as most "questionable" TV shows, violent video games, music with explicit lyrics......

BTW it was a democrates wife who started all that non-sense

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipper_Gore

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by juggernaut

https://www.kinkydollars.com/ I have not seen 100% of all their content but most if it for all their sites shows the couple at the end talking about their enjoyable experience in the video and how it is consensual. There stuff can get rather crazy.

I think most people know this, but we're taking about the preview clips on the site posted in this thread and, like I said, I do not know of anyone that has seen the entire move(s), so we have no idea if they begin/end the films in this way or not.

[Tre Synful]

Thanks to those of you who offered some feedback on the site designs, I appreciate the input.