The shitstorm scenario of 2257

I agree RA.

but because a car can be stolen does not mean we should leave it with the doors open, engine running and the keys in the ignition.

Of course it does to some people, but the more sensible see the benefit of fitting an alarm and locking the vehicle.

[RawAlex]

Paul, agreed... but issuing copies of the registration of the car to everyone in your neighborhood isn't going to help protect it.

Alex

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Paul, agreed... but issuing copies of the registration of the car to everyone in your neighborhood isn't going to help protect it.

Alex

I agree, but tell it to mr blue becasue he thinks it makes no difference, But then he keeps going on about a single nutcase and ignores all the others who might get access to it.

Maybe he will be putting his name and address on his galleries if it's so safe.

[Mr. Blue]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham2

I agree, but tell it to mr blue becasue he thinks it makes no difference, But then he keeps going on about a single nutcase and ignores all the others who might get access to it.

Maybe he will be putting his name and address on his galleries if it's so safe.

Actually, I am...your point is?

The car analogy was cute, but happens to be apples and oranges when it comes to this situation. So, I'm putting my address up, I'm in far more danger than 99% of the models as their id will be handed out to a few thousands of webmasters that have to prove who they are, while mine will be posted to the whole internet.

You see, I understand that if I want to be in this business...that's the risk I'm taking...Models that enter this business know that they're putting themselves up for the world to see them, they sign an agreement, they know what they're getting into.

If you say they don't know what they're getting into then you as a content provider are taking advantage of their naivety. It’s great to have morals that you can flip on and off when it suits you. I happen to be a realist…I know right now people could find my address out…a little difficult, but they could. I know right now people think getting a business address will protect them…that’s also a joke as you have to be at that address 20 hours a week to be compliant.

I don’t moralize…if I want to be in this business it’s a risk I’m taking…I don’t make excuses for my decisions. If you want to be a porn star and want your content in America, you’re going to have to lose your anonymity. Will it stop people from being webmaster? Yes. Will it stop models from performing? Yes. Will it stop the industry on the whole…NO!

2257 is a hiccup, it’ll be overturned, but if you want to play in the adult industry in America at the moment you have to play by the rules. If you don’t, you have to be prepared for a court challenge. If you win, you’re the next Larry Flint, if you lose you’re some guys bitch in jail. Life is all about decisions...we each make them and have to live by them.

[Boogie]

Let me give you folks an analogy that I think we can all agree on.

Think of the number of movies that come out for wide release in a year. Lets imagine its a thousand. So we have in those movies tens of thousands of stars that appear.

This law makes it tantamount to forcing each theatre that shows a film have the ID's and adress and personal information of each of these stars that star in a movie.

But instead of it being every movie theatre its every two bit pornographer in the industry.

Instead of it being a thousand movies its hundreds of thousands of depictions of sex.

Instead of being movie stars is it people who in the eyes of some, terrible loathful sinners.

Instead of being in a nice safe inside a movie theatre its on the desktop PC of every webmaster who has used sexually explicit content and that PC is connected to the internet.

I hate to draw a roadmap for you here but good lord.

[GenXer]

Paul Markham, I think that the PRODUCERS , the ones responsible for shooting the content, procuring models etc should be required to keep the documentation. I do NOT agree that webmasters, sponsor programs should be held accountable if a producer of content is not doing their jobs correctly. That is what the photographers are SUPPOSED to do, when photographing the content , is verify that the models are of age, as you are the one procuring the models. That is how it has always worked as you deal with these models FACe to FACE, and we do NOT! Also, it does give more privacy to the models if only the photographer and producers they dealt with and trust are the ones who have their personal information and ID's, and not every webmaster on the internet! I completely agree with the 10 Court of Appeals on the Sundance vs. Reno case that the responsibility should lie with the primary producer to keep records. I also do believe that webmasters should post who their sponsors are on the 2257 statement and the content providers that their sponsors use, as well as content providers listed if the webmaster does not use sponsor content but purchases it themselves directly from a content provider.

[Vink]

What about men stalking men. Remember the Steven Spielberg stalker.
http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,2258,00.html
The DOJ acts like it was adult industry people that flew the planes into the twin towers.
Where is this generation's Larry Flint? Fighting it out in court. Paying his fine in pennies. Larry was the man!

[tickler]

Originally Posted by Vink

The DOJ acts like it was adult industry people that flew the planes into the twin towers.

Actually another WM on a sponsor board suggested that twisted person like W. might label us "bad" people and try to use the patriot act against us.

[ponygirl]

ok, I have to butt in with a point that is bothering me...there is concern for privacy of both models and webmasters, and that is a HUGE problem.
BUT...I also am hearing this "so what, it'll weed out the little guys, the cottage industry, the part timers" etc...so basically the only ones that can be in business are the "big guys" who have the money for offices, lawyers, record keeping and whatnot?? Look at what is happening around the world. Someday 1 corporation will own everything and then where will we be? no competition means no choice. I think we should be supporting the little guys, not trying to drive them out of business. Just because I work from my basement doesn't mean I'm not serious about it or that I'm just a fly by night type of operation.
It is very sad to me that so many single sites or webmasters are feeling that they will no longer be able to work in this industry because some narrow minded hypocrites think they know what is best for everyone else, and they are afraid of the repercussions of going public in a LEGAL industry that some people don't like.

IT'S JUST SEX FOLKS!
If they want to kill cp, do it but let us run our businesses just like everyone else has the right to.

Ponygirl

Originally Posted by ponygirl

ok, I have to butt in with a point that is bothering me...there is concern for privacy of both models and webmasters, and that is a HUGE problem.
BUT...I also am hearing this "so what, it'll weed out the little guys, the cottage industry, the part timers" etc...so basically the only ones that can be in business are the "big guys" who have the money for offices, lawyers, record keeping and whatnot?? Look at what is happening around the world. Someday 1 corporation will own everything and then where will we be? no competition means no choice. I think we should be supporting the little guys, not trying to drive them out of business. Just because I work from my basement doesn't mean I'm not serious about it or that I'm just a fly by night type of operation.
It is very sad to me that so many single sites or webmasters are feeling that they will no longer be able to work in this industry because some narrow minded hypocrites think they know what is best for everyone else, and they are afraid of the repercussions of going public in a LEGAL industry that some people don't like.

IT'S JUST SEX FOLKS!
If they want to kill cp, do it but let us run our businesses just like everyone else has the right to.

Ponygirl

Yes there are many one man bands who run a tight ship and some big companies who do not. I worked in London on my own for years and had everything legal and above board. Was even raided by police with a search warrant and they commented that my paperwork was correct and I even paid taxes. They found nothing and the paper work saved me a big lawyers bill or even prison time. Some models boyfriend had reported me for shooting underage models. The accusation false, the search warrant real.

GenXer if I motivate some to be more careful then I'm getting through to you.

Some people publish porn from a sponsor, they bought from a broker, representing a producer who holds the legal proof the model is over 18 and signed a model release stating the content could be sold. Often buyer, broker and producer are in different countries. They then give that content to affiliates.

Some can sit back and not point out the folly of this, some cannot.

So far there have been 4 underage models caught doing porn in the US. Everytime a DA looked at the case and thought of his chances of putting someone in prison. He must of considered the measures the publishers took to ascertain the models age.

Do you think he would of been more likely to get a conviction on "I do not need to have the documents because of 2256/Sundance nad did not know she was 17" or "I checked her documents which were fradulently obtained but would convince anyone"

Now add to the first one, "I got the content from a broker who got it from a guy in Russia"

you are right opinions and reputations are being formed. Think of all the companies giving you content they had no PROOF was LEGAL.

Originally Posted by GenXer

Paul Markham, I think that the PRODUCERS , the ones responsible for shooting the content, procuring models etc should be required to keep the documentation. I do NOT agree that webmasters, sponsor programs should be held accountable if a producer of content is not doing their jobs correctly. That is what the photographers are SUPPOSED to do, when photographing the content , is verify that the models are of age, as you are the one procuring the models. That is how it has always worked as you deal with these models FACe to FACE, and we do NOT! Also, it does give more privacy to the models if only the photographer and producers they dealt with and trust are the ones who have their personal information and ID's, and not every webmaster on the internet! I completely agree with the 10 Court of Appeals on the Sundance vs. Reno case that the responsibility should lie with the primary producer to keep records. I also do believe that webmasters should post who their sponsors are on the 2257 statement and the content providers that their sponsors use, as well as content providers listed if the webmaster does not use sponsor content but purchases it themselves directly from a content provider.

And you think as a pornographer you can take the word of a person you have never met, never will meet and could be in another country?

Tell that to the judge.

[GenXer]

Hey Ponygirl I agree!

I've been on doing this a few years and no fear-mongering content providers or any other people who thrive on fear are going to scare me out of the biz. It is actually people like that who motivate me to do my job even BETTER, just to piss them off that their tactics don't work!


I AM HERE TO STAY DAMN YOU! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

[Mr. Blue]

Originally Posted by GenXer

Hey Ponygirl I agree!

I've been on doing this a few years and no fear-mongering content providers or any other people who thrive on fear are going to scare me out of the biz. It is actually people like that who motivate me to do my job even BETTER, just to piss them off that their tactics don't work!


I AM HERE TO STAY DAMN YOU! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

lol, good for both of you. When 2257 first came out I was concerned about putting my address up on the net. I was reading the boards, reading the fear mongering, and reading this overwhelming over-reaction from some in the industry. I stopped reading the boards for a few days and thought carefully about what my options were...pretty much I came to the conclusion that no one was going to scare me out of the business, whether it was the DOJ or Others in the industry trying to use fear tactics to push their own agenda. If you look carefully enough it’s pretty easy to see who has a 2257 agenda in this industry.

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue

If you look carefully enough it’s pretty easy to see who has a 2257 agenda in this industry.

yes, it's been VERY interesting to read what's been going on, not just here but at other boards too -not that there ARE any other boards, mind you hehe

Opinions are being formed & reputations are being made & broken right now. A lot of people are sitting back quietly to see what happens - myself included - and will be there to pick up the slack once the dust clears.
Interesting times - I don't think things will be the same again but that's not necessarily a bad thing...
I'm definitely learning A LOT, and not just about the industry, either.

Ponygirl