Need help /raided and computers seized

[webwoman]

my post before this one explaines the connection

[RawAlex]

furrygirl, let's play here.

Let's say someone has a business with a dozen employees, makes good money, but sometimes is resticted by, say, unfair import duties on their products. Perhaps they are losing business because another country pays their employees much less to do the same job. They have a fairly big business, and they work with the process of government, lawyers, and pressure to improve their situation and make it work out as well as can be considered.

You will notice that none of those business people were standing out on the street at the G8 summits wearing gas masks, destroying buildings, throwing firebombs, and attacking police.

The people on the street had little, so they had little to lose. They don't understand or care how their actions might affect other people, they don't care about the businesses destroyed or the people injured or the mayhem caused, as long as their points got somehow heard. Often, their points are lost in the noise of overdone protest.

Understanding and accepting that there are rules and regulations that cover our buisnesses (including such ignorant things as zoning, business permits, and obscenity laws) and the pressures applied by partner companies (such as hosting, credit card processing, and search engines).

Our industry serves itself well (IMHO) when it is careful to nurture the type of positive relationships with companies that will alow the industry to continue to grow long term. When it comes time to disagree with those partners, we do best to choose our battles wisely and use captial wisely to get them to stay in the game and perhaps open their minds a little bit more.

You have a different opinion. You are welcome to it.

Alex

[furrygirl]

Sweet jeebus! Now you want to debate "free" trade with me, Alex? Maybe next week we can argue about which religion has the one true god?

Sorry, you're too dull for me to waste any time on you with any new issues.

I'm going to do something more productive and go watch "Beneath The Planet Of the Apes".

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Sweet jeebus! Now you want to debate "free" trade with me, Alex? Maybe next week we can argue about which religion has the one true god?

Sorry, you're too dull for me to waste any time on you with any new issues.

I'm going to do something more productive and go watch "Beneath The Planet Of the Apes".

You proved by this post alone that you really haven't read a word I posted.

As soon as the discussion wasn't exactly about you, you are gone.

I understand.

|rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock| |rock|
Alex

[Tommy]

Ya know in the end things balance themselves out

I believe that this industry needs self regulation

the credit card company's and third party billers have already done a very good job of weeding out some of the more undesirable stuff

I wish the hosting companys would do more
or could do more

[plateman]

I hate to jump in here but I've been reading this thing since day one, and I can say its been interesting to read both sides and they both had very good arguments.. then it turned into a movie script type thing.. I think you two should call a truce...

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Ya know in the end things balance themselves out

I believe that this industry needs self regulation

the credit card company's and third party billers have already done a very good job of weeding out some of the more undesirable stuff

I wish the hosting companys would do more
or could do more

Tommy I agree some sort of self regulation is in order but you know as well as I do getting a group of us to even agree on where to go to dinner is like herding cats.

I did an interview last week with one of the Xbiz world reporters about some self regulation proposals and this new association Bill Margold is proposing....

I wont spoil the interview but I will cut and paste what hes proposing....

"Margold is calling for the formation of something called AMERA; the Adult Media Entertainment Responsibilities Associations. This organization would somehow try to encourage compliance with his six-point plan, which is:



1) An end to extreme hardcore content.

2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs.

3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore.

4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera.

5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US.

6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes."

Self regulation is being discussed.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by GonZo

Tommy I agree some sort of self regulation is in order but you know as well as I do getting a group of us to even agree on where to go to dinner is like herding cats.

I did an interview last week with one of the Xbiz world reporters about some self regulation proposals and this new association Bill Margold is proposing....

I wont spoil the interview but I will cut and paste what hes proposing....

"Margold is calling for the formation of something called AMERA; the Adult Media Entertainment Responsibilities Associations. This organization would somehow try to encourage compliance with his six-point plan, which is:



1) An end to extreme hardcore content.

2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs.

3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore.

4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera.

5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US.

6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes."

Self regulation is being discussed.

I see number 6 as a deal breaker.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Surfn

I see number 6 as a deal breaker.

Numbers 2 & 3 are the only ones that I can agree to without more discussion. Guess it's a good thing that it isn't all up to me.

Where's the cat herder?

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by GonZo

"Margold is calling for the formation of something called AMERA; the Adult Media Entertainment Responsibilities Associations. This organization would somehow try to encourage compliance with his six-point plan, which is:



1) An end to extreme hardcore content.

2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs.

3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore.

4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera.

5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US.

6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes."

Self regulation is being discussed.

I used to be a big fan of Bill Margold but over the past few years he's seemed a bit loony.

1- I personally would love to see this, but not at the expense of free speech
2-Should be common sense, but then who would shoot with Max?
3-Hurrah! (My own personal shooting policy btw, as I don't feel that any 18 year old girl is equipped to make decision with such far reaching consequences)
4-That's just silly. Are they going to bar "pornstars" from crossover in the reverse direction too?
5- Under 2257, isnt this already the law?
6- Will never happen. Taxation creates legitimacy, something the US is not ready for. You'll see a tax on pot before a tax on porn.

[Wazza]

1) An end to extreme hardcore content.

Bye bye bondage... then DP, then creampie, then bukkake... to steal a phrase - it's a slippery slope...

2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs.

huh?

3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore.

then 25 next time around?

4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera.

huh?

5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US.

there are other countries now?

6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes."

yeah right!

Nup... can't find a single one that I agree with there...

[DJilla]

Webwoman: Obviously, you didn't take my adivce to be quiet soooo...

I wish you the best and caution you to be very, very, cautious. Lawyers are a funny bunch and if you don't actually know the one you are dealing with its best not to follow their advice blindly without doing your own research. However, it does sound like you have a better than average situation given the complication of the bankruptcy situation (sorry that you are further caught up in the cross fire of more garbage piled up on top of an already bad situation). Two thoughts come to mind:

1) Just because you haven't heard anything generally doesn't mean that "they made an honest mistake and aren't trying to drive you into the ground. It usually means that they are just waiting to present what they have to a grand jury (The king never admits a mistake if only because it would then be actionable for damages) I can't imagine the situation where they'll go "Ooops... never mind"... so methinks you still have trouble ahead and be careful.
2) At minimum I would guess they want you out of town or out of business... don't fight it, negotiate an agreement and melt back into the framework of your community. Enough said: good luck!

Furry Girl: After watching your other posts and seeing that you generally have a sweet temperment, I was a little surprised to see you go so hysterical in this thread. I understood once I realized that you feel you are defending what most would agree is obnoxious content and I gotta tell you it will NEVER be acceptable like you proclaim it should be. You are merely defending what you do and wrapping it in a Joan of Arc type crusade. You should step aside a minute and realize that you are justifying yourself and not being objective. If you are going to be "out there" then be willing to take the hits from a majority of people who find your stuff disgusting and just don't care. Don't act like everyone else is crazy. Raw Alex not only has NOT said anything that wasn't pretty reasonable, but I can see many times he opened the door to you and offered an olive branch to having a reaonable debate and not keep it on the personal level that you kept dragging it back too. Calm down and go back to your sweet self who knows a secret no one else can understand.

FOR ME, I'm glad you're out there like that and encourage you to do more and better! You do have some guts and as long as you're pushing the barf bag stuff I know that I can safely peddle my tame stuff behind the wave that you've created.
While they are paying attention to you they'll ignore me. You are a valuable asset to the porn game because as Raw Alex originally said, you are the one likely to get the speeding ticket. This is good for everyone else because they'll get to slide right by when you take the sacrificial hit. They should be thanking you instead of attacking you.

Bill Margold: Somebody please stuff a rag in his mouth and tie him up somewhere!

The official position is:

Porn is ART and EXPRESSION!
There will be no concessions.
There will be no negotiated agreements.
There will be no taxes.
There will be no regulation.
There will be no quarter!
Period!

[weirdharold]

Originally Posted by DJilla

The official position is:

Porn is ART and EXPRESSION!
There will be no concessions.
There will be no negotiated agreements.
There will be no taxes.
There will be no regulation.
There will be no quarter!
Period!

Well said, because if we give one hard won inch... they will take a mile!

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by DJilla

You should step aside a minute and realize that you are justifying yourself and not being objective. If you are going to be "out there" then be willing to take the hits from a majority of people who find your stuff disgusting and just don't care. Don't act like everyone else is crazy.

I'm absolutely not objective about the personal porn that I meake which features myself and my cunt. Spend 22 years being told that your body is shameful, disgusting, barf-worthy, dirty, stinky, too out-there, and obscene, and then try to give me a lesson on objectivity. Sorry, dude, but this is something you will just never understand.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by GonZo

1) An end to extreme hardcore content.

2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs.

3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore.

4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera.

5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US.

6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes."

Self regulation is being discussed.

I'm all for industry-initiated self-regulation and discussion of ethics in the industry, but as Gonzo said, it's like herding cats. Whereas I'm ethically aghast at pedo-bait sites and violent degrading content, there as plenty of people ethically aghast at me for menstruating during a softcore stripping set.

3) As someone who got started at 18, I am always irked by these things. I understand where people whom I respect are coming from when they advocate over-21 policies, but I don't think that it would address either of the reasons I see for having such a rule. One, there is nothing that says a 21-year-old is more secure, mature, and better at making decisions about her life and her body than an 18-year-old. Even people in their 30s or 40s or 80s can later regret making porn and feel like they made a wrong decision or were lured into something evil with the promise of money. Two, if this is to combat pedo-bait sites like Little April, many sites/photogs/talent are trying to make performers/themselves look as much like a teenager as possible, and many sites will *always* push "she's so young" as a top selling point of their sites, whether the models are 18 or 21 or 35. I see no reason to deny legal consensual adult work to 18-year-olds.

(Personally, I have made a conscious point of never using the word "teen" or "young" to sell myself and my site, even though I have plenty of content shot when I was 18 and 19. I actually go out of my way to correct anyone who calls me a teen, and I *never* talk about "my first time" or any borderline illegal stories of underage sexual antics that are ubiquitous on adult sites. Seriously, what is with *that* being normalized?)

4) Can we just use the word prostitute and cut with the "escort" euphemisms? I don't look down at prostitutes in the least or think what they are doing is morally wrong, but I don't like beating around the bush. This would be the hardest thing in the world to try and set rules for and enforce. Aside from models who do a bit of extra work on the side, look at all the adult talent that does occasional brothel work as such-and-such-pornstar, are we going to then cut them off from the "legal" adult industry? Or is this only for prostitutes outside of legal brothels? Sticky, sticky.

5) Well, there goes iFriends and all the cam networks populated by eastern bloc ladies.

6) Feeding the hand that bites us... yeah, sign me up for that one.

Still, these are a great starting point for a kick-ass discussion, and something that would make a lively last-minute panel for Internext/AEE.

[GenXer]

That is scary stuff indeed! If they showed you no search warrant, I don't see where they were supposed to do that! It sounds like a giant harrassment to me.

[Flesh_Merchant]

I apologize for being a bit late to the party but there are a few things that I would like to point out that I did not see mentioned anywhere so far....

In regards to the issue of "prostitution" I think in general by legal standards "prostitution" would be considered as a person paying for any type of "sexual gratification". This does not necessarily mean "sex" as we know it and so if Johnny Boy gets off on being spanked then if the powers that be wanted to press the case they could do so and regardless of where the act(s) took place the situation would be the same.....whether she was running this business from her home or from a retail location would not change the situation much.

I've been involved in all aspects of the adult entertainment industry over the past 15 plus years and that does include the ownership/management of adult oriented clubs as well as an escort service and one thing I can tell you for certain is that if the city/state wants to make a case against someone they will and let the lawyers sort it out and see if they can get a conviction. I know for a fact that most working girls charged with prostitution often times are not convicted or they end up with deferred adjudication/probation. I know for a fact that police departments will go so far as to basically force people out of their jurisdiction by using tactics as described here regardless of whether or not they could get a guilty verdict in court on any charges they may file.

Almost every dominatrix that I know charges some sort of fee or "donation" for their services and although I would admit it's a bit odd for one to over "overnight" sessions who are we to say just how long anyone should be given to indulge their fantasies...

I don't think that there is a single person in this industry who could not be the target of legal action since for the most part there is a very thin line at times between what is legal and what is not and in the area of obscenity that line is very easy to cross since there really are not any set in stone guidelines in regards to what may be obscene and what is not.

A lot of people had some rather harsh things to say in this thread and I think many would be best served to do a bit more thinking before speaking since at any given time any of us could have the authorities at our door questioning what we thought were our above board and legal practices.

Best of luck to you WebWoman

[RawAlex]

Bill Margold is a very interesting man (I have spent a fair amount of time with him on various subjects, and I got to really understand a fair bit about what he does). At least a couple of these points sum up his beliefs very well indeed.

You have to remember that Bill is not suggesting that any of this content would go away entirely, but is suggesting that if the mainstream part of the industry went this way, things would change as a result. This isn't to limit free speech, just to get the majority of the industry to stay away from certain areas that are not good for us.

1 - matter of taste. If the distributors wouldn't carry it, the producers wouldn't make it.
2 - the industry needs to stop taking advantage of the weakest members of society. They need to stop taking risks. The porn industry shouldn't be the paycheck keeping these people on the gear (nor should any other company in any other business tolerate or encourage it).
3 - we all like our teen girls... but are they mentally ready to make this choice? (My personal feeling is if they are able to vote and die in a war, they are allowed to fuck on camera... but that is just me)
4 - The intention here is good, the reality is that too many porn girl make their big money do PSE hooker worker, charging upwards to $2000 an hour. Unless the porn buisness is going to come up with much larger paychecks, the girls and guys will go out and hook, dance, and whatever to make a living.
5 - The porn business should not be any different from mainstream films. If they want out of country workers to appear in a film they have to get the right documents from immigration to do it. Why should the porn business be different?
6 - a small but clear porntax (collected at point of sale, example) would go miles toward legitimizing the business. The government can only tax what is legal - once taxed, you are defeacto legal.

Bill isn't entirely right or wrong, but I can see where he is going. Personal responsiblity to assure that the indsutry as a whole can continue for a long time to come, and that the industry stops taking advantage of the most vunerable people.

Alex

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

3 - we all like our teen girls... but are they mentally ready to make this choice? (My personal feeling is if they are able to vote and die in a war, they are allowed to fuck on camera... but that is just me)
Alex

I think the age should be 21 to appear in a nude or hardcore whatever

I do not beleive that an 18 year old is mesntally ready

before everyone starts in on the army bs

I also think that a person should be 21 to go in to combat

meaning they can serve in the miltary at 18 but not be assigined to combat units untill 21

and 21 to drink

and 21 to drive unless they are in the miltary or go to college or have a full time job that requries driving

[Flesh_Merchant]

I would like to wish everyone here at GG & J a Happy Thanksgiving!

Now on to the matter at hand.....

1) An end to extreme hardcore content.
I have several objections to this but I think the biggest question would be who exactly defines what is "extreme"? There is no way that we should allow censorship to take place as I don't think anyone should have the right to judge what should be acceptable sexual conduct between two consenting adults. Anyone who thinks that could put an end to extreme content and sex is clearly wrong and but trying to limit even more what acts could be considered acceptable we would only be seeding the growth of a new underground market for material that would no longer be considered legal. Keep in mind that today film producers really don't need distributors and with VOD and IPTV technology producers of 'extreme" content can produce material and distribute it directly to buyers who are interested in such material.
When people get around to thinking about making changes to the adult industry they should really take a good look at how some of these ideas will really change what may be considered a "problem"....Do we draw the line at anal sex being too taboo? maybe interracial or gay sex. Censorship will only lead to more censorship and will not solve any of the so-called "problems' associated with the adult industry.

2) IV drug testing to discourage use of performers that are on IV drugs.
Are we only going to test people for drugs which may be taken intravenously? In all seriousness most drugs that could be taken intravenously can also be administered into the human body by other means with the same effect so I really have to wonder if this idea has much more to do with the generally negative feelings that most people have towards IV drug use as compared to really trying to do something to help protect the industry. IV use is of course always brought up when HIV/AIDS comes up but with the exception of the dangers involved with the sharing of used needles is an IV drug user any more at risk of contracting and spreading HIV or any other disease than an 18 (or better yet 21) year old performer who uses recreational drugs and engages in reckless sexual behavior.
If you're going to test people for drugs then test them for all controlled substances regardless of how those drugs may have been administered into the body....Don't take the politician route and use "hot topics" such as IV drug use to make things to the outside world seem like something is being done and things are changing when nothing really has. If you want to rid the adult industry of drug use then pot heads and coke whores have to get thrown out with the IV drug users but people need to keep in mind that drug use isn't an adult industry problem it's just a problem and people from past presidents to the cop patrolling your neighborhood may have a drug problem but the last thing anyone will hear of is the mandatory testing of everyone on Capitol Hill for controlled substances and the abuse of prescription medication.

3) A 21-and-over age limit for performers that do hardcore.
I really think a lot of these suggestions are more about PERCEPTION than reality....
If we all agree to use 21 and older performers we could say to the government that we are doing our best to try and protect young people but on the other hand are we really making a difference? Now we would have 18 thru 20 year olds who are interested in the financial gains available by working in the adult industry simply making their living as hookers as compared to being adult film performers. We haven't really solved anything and the fact of the matter is that when it's all said and done the Adult Entertainment Industry as a whole would still be looked at as a problem. Take the current 2257 legislation which honestly does very little to stop the production and distribution of child pornography and only serves to place an unneeded burden on producers and create a security/privacy issue for performers.
We really should not stoop to use political tactics in order to somehow change the governments view of the adult industry since we all know that such tactics really have no positive effects when it comes to solving the problem and only serve to make it look like the government or in this case AMERA is actually making a difference. At age 18 you can drive a car, go to war and die, or have an abortion and so for us to say that a person at age 18 is competent to make these decisions but not make a decision on how they would like to make their living is absolute nonsense. The age of consent in most states ranges from 16 to 18 and so the US/State government has made a decision that those individuals are capable of making rational decisions about having sex and they are also considered "adults" at that age but are they are not capable of making job decisions

4) Cutting ties with the escort business by not allowing escorts to perform in front of the camera.
I had to laugh a bit when I read this....regardless of what anyone may think the line between prostitution and being an adult performer is very thin. Although prostitution is illegal in most states having someone on hand to video tape the events for a "theatrical production" voids that illegality but for the most part the acts performed by the parties involved remain the same. We all know that a great number of adult performers make a considerable portion of the income from activities such as escorting....The real problem here lies is that for us to self censor and say that a performer can not work as an escort implies that all escorts are doing something illegal or immoral like having sex for money and that somehow just seems like the pot calling the kettle black.

5) Not using foreign talent unless they have legitimate papers to work in the US.
This may be the only thing here that makes sense but then again isn't it against the law to hire undocumented workers to begin with?
The last thing I really think any of us need are more rules out there to stack on top of the existing rules which are already in place. If the government wants to start enforcing this rule then let them feel free to do so but I really don't think this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

6) Working with the government to legislate a "porn tax" similar to alcohol and gambling taxes.
Although many have expressed that they feel that a "porn" or "sin" tax as it is often referred to would add a bit of legitimacy to the adult industry I really find this to be bullshit. First of the concept as a whole does nothing but put porn in a negative light...A porn or sin tax pretty much suggests that there is something a bit wrong with what we do but that the government will tolerate it as long as they get a cut of the pie and that is not something I can agree with. Is this a tax or the beginning of legalized extortion of the adult industry?
I would also like to know exactly where would this money go? Would this money go to fund anti-adult agencies so that we can help fund our very own demise or would the money go the the states or feds so that they can use the funds to pay more political bribes and fund more unneeded and unwarranted "military action" in foreign countries. I'm not a smoker but consider the ever rising tax being applied to cigarettes....All this has truly done in raise the cost of cigarettes to the consumer while bringing in more money for the government without doing mush to stop people from smoking or helping those who make be suffering from smoking related illness.



Mack Diesel
FLESH MERCHANT
"What's Your Pleasure?"
www.FleshMerchant.com

[GenXer]

What an interesting reply, flesh merchant. I must say I agree with most of what you say.

[RawAlex]

Furrygirl, you don't get it, do you?

MY PERSONALLY OPINION AND MY BUSINESS OPINION ARE DIFFERENT. You can't seem to grasp that very simple concept. I got my freaking red wings long before you were born, that isn't an issue. PERSONALLY I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHAT YOU DO.

However, from a business stand point, the rules from V&MC are clear - something are in (including gagging blowjobs, for reason I don't get) and some things are out (blood, scat, bestiality...).

You are trying to say that I think your blood is disgusting. From a business stand point, it is NOT PART OF THE BUSINESS AT THIS POINT. I also don't think that there is enough new or additional income to be had on this type of content to make it worth fighting with V&MC over the content, compared to what could be lost if they decide to restrict current porn any further.

I DON'T DENY YOU YOUR RIGHT TO BE FREE... I don't deny you your right to do what you think is right, and I don't deny you your chance to find out if your material would be judged obscene or not if the DoJ knocks on your door. I just don't want to fuck up the rest of the profitable porn business by pissing off V&MC by trying to get sites accepted one way or another that are not acceptable by their current rules.

Obscenity is a community standard, and my feeling is that blood sites would likely not go over well in all communities (neither would gagging, neither would some of the other sites that are pushing the envelope in whatever direction they are pushing).

You can fight the obscenity side of it all you like, more power to you, and plenty of people here would link to you and watch you go. From a personal standpoint, you can go fight how you like. From a business standpoint, I don't think our industry needs to be dragged into another battle that can easily be turned into bad press and another rally cry to "stop them dirty porn mongers".

You see? Personally I don't care. There are many things that I agree with or even participate in my personal life that are not acceptable in my online BUSINESS. If you can understand the difference, you can retract your insulting, rude, and downright incorrect personal comments about me, which like most everything else you have posted about me have been totally wrong.

I take serious personal offence at your comments.

Alex

[furrygirl]

Alex, either back up your "business standpoint" claims or shut up, I'm sick of hearing you state your own personal conservatism as an irrefutable fact of the entire adult business. You have no idea what you're talking about, and can't find a single example or legal case to try and prove your point.

Show me *one* case where an adult site was prosecuted for blood content (not presented as a part of a greater BDSM/violent context). I don't doubt that it *could* potentially happen, but you act like it happens so constantly that it's become common knowledge on par with not not promoting raping animals. (Always nice to see menstruation listed alongside bestiality, though.)

News to Alex: I didn't invent menstruation. There have been period-focussed sites online for *at least* 4 years, and many more with quiet red content, and I think we all would have noticed if one of them had caused the downfall of the entire adult industry.

It's fine for you to play it safe with your own business, but stop claiming that your personal fears and insecurities should dictate what *I* am allowed to do with my time.

[Linkster]

Im gonna butt in here for a sec - and only because I tend to be a little more liberal on issues - I think that a good reference point for everyone that is not familiar with the history of what furrygirl is doing here - http://www4.ncsu.edu/~n51ls801/period.html
is an excellent link to read and get some background.

I will not interject my personal feelings as they do not play in this whatsoever - I think that the whole discussion (no matter how much personal feelings have been jutted in) comes down to a battle between what some think that WMs have the right to publish and promote - vs - the effects of promoting those same ideas/fetishes/etc.

Unfortunately, the two are not opposing viewpoints although they are the talking points that have been taken in this thread.

I believe that both parties really do agree on the moral issue and the freedom of speech/publishing rights issues.

The finer point of the biz issue is really where the contention lies - and should be discussed - I think that both sides have the same outlook personally on freedoms and their sanctity.
This then boils down to one side discussing the effect of "promoting a fetish and the repurcussions on the whole industry" and the other side basing the discussion as if there is no effect and these two basis of thought aren't opposing thoughts - they are completely different basis.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Im gonna butt in here for a sec - and only because I tend to be a little more liberal on issues - I think that a good reference point for everyone that is not familiar with the history of what furrygirl is doing here - http://www4.ncsu.edu/~n51ls801/period.html
is an excellent link to read and get some background.

I saw that one a while ago, and while it's a decent read for people new to the subject, but I found it to be too much like a poorly-strung-together freshman psych term paper, even though he's aparently an associate professor of philosophy. I think it's important to point out that it is written by a male who is not in the adult industry.

Trixie actually wrote a piece from the perspective in a menstruating pornographer in the latest $pread Magazine. I know she and I both want people to support the new publication, but I'll ask and see if she wants to share the scanned story here.