Why cant we get listed because we have counters

[halfpint]

Hi I would like to know why we cannot be listed on Jims site because we have a counters on our main page, this does not interfere with anybody browsing the page All the counter does is give us a quick indication of the amount of traffic we are recieving, Counters are nothing compared to popups and redirects which our site does not and will not have...please tell me what the problem with counters are as this is the first time We have had this problem with site submission

Regards

Halfpint

[Tommy]

A lot of tgp's and LL's are not listing sites with counters

the counter code thats on your webpage can be used for spyware and popups and some counter companys have been a bit sneaky so...

its a lot easyer to just ban them then deal with what counter is naughty or nice

[halfpint]

Hi thanks for the reply, I Guess we wont be listed on Jims then, as I would prefer to keep the sextracker counter as its sending traffic my way

Regards

Halfpint

[Surfn]

Tommy is right. Most of the counters start out fine but turn into a nightmare mess at the drop of hat, or as soon as the owners see big bucks. So it's best not to list them.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by halfpint

Hi I would like to know why we cannot be listed on Jims site because...

Jim's site?

[halfpint]

OK sorry guys greenguyand jims, Im just lazy coundent be bothered to write the whole name

regrads

Halfpint

[Greenguy]

I'm just wondering where you've been submitting that this is the 1st counter rule you come across.

[Tommy]

a smart man would go and do a little research on google

I list em but if something happens the webmaster loses his or her partner account, no execuses

[Useless]

Originally Posted by halfpint

OK sorry guys greenguyand jims, Im just lazy coundent be bothered to write the whole name

regrads

Halfpint

No, you're just confused. The Link 'O Rama belongs to Greenguy. This board belongs to both he and Jim.

[halfpint]

Have a look at my site and you can see all the places i have submittted
to Most are on the links page

http://www.amateur-hotshots.com

[Useless]

MOST link lists wouldn't list that anyway.

Oh, btw - whatever trickle of traffic those crap counters may be sending you is absolutely nothing compared to what link lists would send you.

[Greenguy]

You sure the copyright date on the bottom shouldn't be 1997?

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by halfpint

Hi thanks for the reply, I Guess we wont be listed on Jims then, as I would prefer to keep the sextracker counter as its sending traffic my way

Regards

Halfpint

Sextraffic is one of the original scammers.

[Viper]

Frankly, there's really no good reason to ban "known" counters from galleries or freesites. Why? Because a well written scanner (which the vast majority of LLs seem to be lacking), can check that there's no malicious javascript. Instead of banning the javascript, certain javascript "functions" can be banned which still allows the submitters to use most counters. I've done that on my TGPs and it's been a damn long time since there's been an issue.

[Useless]

If you have server stats, Sexcounter is pointless anyway. And really, it doesn't fucking matter because the site in question is a ball of shit - no offense intended. It's simply NOT the kind of site which is listed by link lists.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

If you have server stats, Sexcounter is pointless anyway. And really, it doesn't fucking matter because the site in question is a ball of shit - no offense intended. It's simply NOT the kind of site which is listed by link lists.

I think they're confusing "free site" LLs with directories that would list their site.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Viper

I think they're confusing "free site" LLs with directories that would list their site.

Even if he is, this is the Link Lists & Getting Listed forum & he's asking about submitting to my site, which is a Link List.

[Linkster]

Viper - I dont know what "known" counters you would be talking about - I know everyone that I used to use has gone the swapping out route including sexcounter and every other major counter out there - every one of them has installed spyware on surfers computers through their counters - its pretty easy when they control that js - if you could please tell us which ones havent I would appreciate that - as I have yet to find anything other than server stats that hasnt tried to install shit at one time or another

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by halfpint

Have a look at my site and you can see all the places i have submittted
to Most are on the links page

http://www.amateur-hotshots.com

If this is the page http://www.amateur-hotshots.com/page3.html you are referring to there are NO LL's listed there?

[Linkster]

It wouldnt get listed at any reputable site anyway:
"ALL THE PICS & VIDS ARE POSTED BY OUR USERS"

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Viper - I dont know what "known" counters you would be talking about - I know everyone that I used to use has gone the swapping out route including sexcounter and every other major counter out there - every one of them has installed spyware on surfers computers through their counters - its pretty easy when they control that js - if you could please tell us which ones havent I would appreciate that - as I have yet to find anything other than server stats that hasnt tried to install shit at one time or another

sextracker, sexlist, xxxcounter.... when has sexcounter or any of these installed spyware on surfers computers via the counter? sexcounter and sextracker are used by major traffic networks. sextracker is used by thehun. Please point out some board links to me where it was shown these guys installed some shit because I've never seen any. I'm not saying that there hasn't been issues at times in the past, but those counters are still here and being used by some major people.

Regardless, the reality is that LLs and TGPs banned the use of "javascript" because cheaters would use it. Counters were caught in the crossfire.

And with todays reality, "javascript" is the least of the problems.. Every one of the LLs (and TGPs) that accept submissions, are getting dynamic galleries/sites.. You can't detect them. They are redirecting, changing content and plenty of things like that. Take some time to browser some of the bigger link lists. You're going to find sites that now go to hosting landing pages because the domains have expired.. Sites that are "broken" because the php has been broken.. sites redirecting.. sites where the deeper pages have been changed etc. etc. etc. etc. VERY few sites have active scanners checking everything. And of those that have scanners, most only do a cursory test. How many scanners check for the full sized images/videos going 404? How much traffic can be fed to other sites, exploits and the like via that method?

I submitted a FS the other day.. It was accepted and listed on a bunch of sites.. But I couldn't figure out why there was nothign getting to the sponsor... It was because I had messed up the link.. NO ONE even checked that the link was going to my 404 page. And that included a couple major LLs.

Here's another "trick" that cheaters do and that pretty much every TGP/LL accepts. Don't link to the sponsor, link to a FPA etc. Then you can redirect that page wherever you want. No one ever checks that. I for one only allow that for people that have "proven" themselves to be as trustworthy submitters.

I know a bunch of you have been doing this longer than my 5.5 years, but I've been accepting TGP submissions (free, not paid or partner) all that time and have been fighting all of this. So when I say Javascript is the least of our problems, I do know what I'm talking about. I've developed some decent software to scan my stuff.. In fact, I notified a sponsor yesterday that their FHGs were redirecting because my scanner caught it.. Turns out their server had been hacked and the apache binary overwritten. I'm really passionate about this stuff as I don't like getting screwed over. And as I said, javascript/counters simply pale in comparison to everything else.

[Greenguy]

Sextracker? I love Bode, but fuck me. They were really bad a couple years ago.

java? It's not banned by me, just some applications that may or may not use it, like counters.

You're listing what you think are a bunch of "tricks" that submitters use to fuck with traffic (which has nothing to do with counters) But I can tell you that I as well as many others have things in place to check & verify these "tricks".

You can believe me or not, but I can produce a massive blacklist with domains of people we're found using these "tricks" We might not catch all of them, but when we do.....

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Sextracker? I love Bode, but fuck me. They were really bad a couple years ago.

I know there was talk about them installing something if the surfer clicked thru to some things from their site, but I haven't heard anything in the last couple years about the counter installing things. I don't watch the boards all the time though so I could have missed something.

Originally Posted by Greenie

You're listing what you think are a bunch of "tricks" that submitters use to fuck with traffic (which has nothing to do with counters) But I can tell you that I as well as many others have things in place to check & verify these "tricks".

I'm sure you do and from the little bit of time I've spent looking at some of your listings, you seem pretty clean.. but I've found things on sites like penisbot, hoes etc. etc. etc. My comments were not specific to your sites.

The point is that "counters" and javascript may have been banned, but these other things are not. So you may catch things after the fact, but it's not stopping any cheater from screwing with your traffic. When a "counter" goes bad, everyone knows very quickly. But if you blacklist a submitter for some of the things they do, that information isn't making it out to the masses. In other words, the amount of damage a counter "could" do is a hell of a lot less than what's currently going on.

Oh.. and I don't just "think" they're tricks submiters do, I know they do them.. and given you're response and that you say you have things in place to check for these "tricks", you know it as well.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Viper

...The point is that "counters" and javascript may have been banned, but these other things are not. So you may catch things after the fact, but it's not stopping any cheater from screwing with your traffic...

Jut because you don't see it on a rules pages does not mean it's not banned

The bottom line with this thread is that some people like counters & some don't. If you do like counters, then you have to find other people that share your view & submit your to them.

[SaucyPanties]

Rather than use these so called 'Free Counters' (nothing is ever free) why not consider http://www.google.com/analytics/ I use it on one of my blogs and its better than any free counter... You just insert some code, you do not even get an advert to display and nobody unless looking at your source code would realise it is there. I am getting geared up to submitting free sites again, I am not going to use this on those in case it earns a rejection.

Its an easy rule, don't shit on the link list owners because a free site without link list traffic is bolloxed. If Greenguy or any other link list owner said I am changing my rules, you all need to use green backgrounds, then it is his rule... You either submit under those conditions and get listed or you find someone who doesn't use 'certain' criteria. If a link list owner gets too strict and submissions do not flow then they are bolloxed but it is their choice.

At the end of the day, my free sites get traffic from link lists because the end user who clicked the link obviously feels that the link list he clicked from is trustworthy. If link lists relaxed rules so that cheaters could get in then I would not want to submit to them. So those that feel naked without a free counter go and take a look at http://www.google.com/analytics/