Found domain name in blacklist :(

[Yahook]

But I'm afraid you will not give me this list - because these links are important for you.

[Yahook]

So, guys, why not to give full list of banned hosting companies here? It will be very good and usefull info for webmasters.

[plateman]

who needs a list when you can just see who is listing you and if you dont see hits from a certain LL then mail or post here and ask why...

the problem is most of the cheaters just
build auto submit and dont bother checking anything..

[Yahook]

Thanks for your answer Plateman, but I'm not agree with you - This is problem of honest posters, not of cheaters.That's why I want to discuss it.

So, You hide the full list of banned hosting companies. You offer for posters first to post and put your recip, then wait for a month for example, and then got a message that their hosting are banned? In the result some of posters remove your recip, some are to lazy to do that. This policy is profitable for you in any case, but I think you can do more honestly.

Why don't give them exact rule before they submit site to your linklist? It will be rather more honest in relation to linklist posters.

[Yahook]

And you got this submissions over and over again with the same banned hosting. Because it's profitable for you.

[sundiver]

lol. the scary-scary secret is that most of link lists who ban hosting providers are already known and posters interested in this just do not post there.
for most of serious posters it is better way than changing hosting provider twice a month.

[RawAlex]

If you post a list of hosts that are not accepted, the cheaters, scammers, and liars would just move to another host or take other actions to hide themselves out. That you happen to choose a host that has a high concentration of free site cheaters on it is really not a link list's problem.

Here is an example:

I have whole classes of IP addresses blocked to keep certain open proxies, ISPs, and other annoying sources of "wasted time" from getting to submit to me. Now, should I contact each of these people one at a time and explain to them exactly how to bypass the systems I have setup for myself to avoid having to look at their shit useless spam sites?

Nope. Revealing all of the truth would just create huge amounts of work for me as scammers and jammers will find new proxies, new ISPs, or find other methods to submit... which I will then have to review and decline over and over again.

There are certain hosts out there that are havens for scammers. If you are hosted with them, link site owners have to way to filter you out of all the shit that is out there. You may be a really nice submitter, but all the idiots around you make you very hard to pick out of the crowd. I get enough submits in a day, there is no reason to spend them time to try to pick you out of the crowd.

Return links are a very small part of a link site's overall traffic, most often a single traffic trade will generate more traffic than all of the return links total combined. "Tricking" people into putting up more return links will have a very, very small effect on total traffic - so small as to not be worth the effort.

Just one of those things.

Alex

[sundiver]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Revealing all of the truth would just create huge amounts of work for me as scammers and jammers will find new proxies, new ISPs, or find other methods to submit... which I will then have to review and decline over and over again.

hm. so you believe that cheaters do not check their stats and do not check if their domains are blacklisted or not, but they will check if their host is banned or not? strange, don't you think?

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I get enough submits in a day, there is no reason to spend them time to try to pick you out of the crowd.

well, actually I understand your point of view =) that's why I do not submit my freesites to your LL.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Return links are a very small part of a link site's overall traffic, most often a single traffic trade will generate more traffic than all of the return links total combined. "Tricking" people into putting up more return links will have a very, very small effect on total traffic - so small as to not be worth the effort.

did you read previous posts? nobody talk about traffic. we are talking about SE. backlinks.

Originally Posted by RawAlex

If you are submitting to so many link sites that you are unable to detemine which ones are listing you and which ones are not, then you might want to look at your overall business model. If you build a ton of sites and never see a link site in your referal list, maybe that might be a clue.

as for me I know who list my sites and who don't.
but I don't understand where you see somebody telling smth like "my big problem is that I don't know who list my sites". we are talking about hosting banning. let's say you've banned me for using 3fn.net (just an example, because I'm hosted with another host). I email you. let's imagine you answer me ('let's imagine' - because I remember how plateman ignored my appeals even when the problem was resolved): "Your hosting is banned". I remove your link list from my database, you're happy, I'm happy. the only problem appears if you added me to shared blacklist. you wont remove my domain from there, right?

[RawAlex]

I just want to add this: If you are submitting to so many link sites that you are unable to detemine which ones are listing you and which ones are not, then you might want to look at your overall business model. If you build a ton of sites and never see a link site in your referal list, maybe that might be a clue.

Alex

[Yahook]

RawAlex, I understand your side. And I respect you very much. But you see you also ban good webmasters. I don't submit free sites by myself but this situation is not profitable for me too.

If you can't control cheaters why do not close your submit form and make like dangerdave? You will get submissions only from good webmasters and you will not need to ban hosting. And finally all posters will be happy too - because you can give an account for good poster.

Please agree with me, you get lots of "free" links over and over again and you don't want to change this situation. Sure it's more easier to hide the rules.

[Yahook]

Some webmasters can's ask you on this board, for example their english isn't too good, so you will ban them because of this? But they can make good free sites, they can read your rules.

I don't protect cheaters, I hate them, but you also ban good webmasters. There are lots of other ways to protect you from cheaters and be honest with the webmasters and other linklist owners.

[Yahook]

I want to add that to ban hosting company is the same as to ban webmaster nickname For example you ban webmaster wich nickname "Alex" because you've find cheater with that nickname Isn't funny?

[Yahook]

RawAlex, I'm not cheater, could you please give that the list of hostins providers that are banned with you for me? by PM or by ICQ. I will use if for myself and for good linklist posters that I know.

[natalie]

I meant illegal domains like rape and ****** shit Yahook. Sif you would want to host your sites on places that have that kind of stuff.

[SI]

I have said about these issues 1.5 ago or so as my hosting suffered from cover ban. At the same time clever guys from this board had adviced me to use 'right' hosting company. They had argued in a same way: 'plenty of cheaters bla bla etc.' They had told also they don't need reciprocal links much, just like now. 1.5 years pass away i'm host my sites at dedicated servers currently, but LOL still can't get listed at the same LLs as before, perhaps reason for this time is 'bogus NS' or something like that because i've setup my own nameservers for these servers (there is no another way). There is one conclusion i've made up from that all is almost no matter where you're host your sites - sane guys will list you, insane will not. IMHO

[Surfn]

[AlexD]

Of course it's the easiest way for LL owber to ban the hosting copmany and not to ban cheaters((( I had the same situation when my domen was banned for this reason though i've posted a lot abd for a long time from this domen and did nothing wrong.

[Yahook]

Natalie, thanks for your answer
All illegal stuff is prohibited on that hostings too: 3FN,HQHost and so on... (As for rape - there is difference between bsdm and rape - if you don't work in this niche you don't understand it. Rape is illegal, bdms is not).

Let's make some conclusions:
RawAlex wrote:

If you post a list of hosts that are not accepted, the cheaters, scammers, and liars would just move to another host or take other actions to hide themselves out. That you happen to choose a host that has a high concentration of free site cheaters on it is really not a link list's problem.

But why are you afraid? The "legal" hosting companies will not delete this users? You afraid because it's very difficult for hosting company to control those cheaters, and any big hosting company can be banned by this reason.

Surfn, could you please show your sites? I don't understand why you laugh

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Yahook

As for rape - there is difference between bsdm and rape - if you don't work in this niche you don't understand it. Rape is illegal, bdms is not.

Okay... well, I work in the bdsm niche just a little. So I do understand that part.

Yahook, I quoted your post but the rest of this isn't really directed at you specifically. It's for anyone who doesn't see that this is a very simple thing here.

What I don't understand here is that:

(i) some people seem to be warning others that if they use the wrong hosting they won't be listed on some links lists; and
(ii) other people seem to be trying to talk about whether banning hosting companies is a good idea, and if there's some way to provide a list of all the banned hosting companies.

Okay, I get the first group, they're sparing a few valuable minutes to spread the word that you need to be very careful these days about what neighborhood your sites are in. So if someone accidentally got in with the wrong crowd they can move instead of being punished like the rest who choose to live there.

But the second part of the discussion just baffles me. It's not anyone else's problem that some hosting companies allow spammers, scammers, bot operators, illegal content, and all sorts of other problems on their servers. There are too many good hosting companies to worry about posting lists of the bad ones.

All someone needs to do, if they want to be listed by the bigger/better link lists, is two things:

1. Get hosted by a reputable hosting company that's known for taking a hard line against that crap.

2. Most important... don't actually be a spammer, scammer, or other kind of cheating fuck.

Seriously, all the talk about improving the system is off the track. If it would be of benefit to link list owners to do it they would do it. It's not to their benefit to rearrange things the other way. Plus, it would benefit the scumbags who try to abuse the system, so it's not likely to get changed.

To any webmasters here who just want to get listed, and who aren't cheaters already, just move to reputable hosting and forget about this problem.

Simon

(didn't we cover all this in yesterday's OTB?)

[sundiver]

Originally Posted by Simon

Okay... well, I work in the bdsm niche just a little. So I do understand that part.

Yahook, I quoted your post but the rest of this isn't really directed at you specifically. It's for anyone who doesn't see that this is a very simple thing here.

What I don't understand here is that:

(i) some people seem to be warning others that if they use the wrong hosting they won't be listed on some links lists; and
(ii) other people seem to be trying to talk about whether banning hosting companies is a good idea, and if there's some way to provide a list of all the banned hosting companies.

Okay, I get the first group, they're sparing a few valuable minutes to spread the word that you need to be very careful these days about what neighborhood your sites are in. So if someone accidentally got in with the wrong crowd they can move instead of being punished like the rest who choose to live there.

But the second part of the discussion just baffles me. It's not anyone else's problem that some hosting companies allow spammers, scammers, bot operators, illegal content, and all sorts of other problems on their servers. There are too many good hosting companies to worry about posting lists of the bad ones.

All someone needs to do, if they want to be listed by the bigger/better link lists, is two things:

1. Get hosted by a reputable hosting company that's known for taking a hard line against that crap.

2. Most important... don't actually be a spammer, scammer, or other kind of cheating fuck.

Seriously, all the talk about improving the system is off the track. If it would be of benefit to link list owners to do it they would do it. It's not to their benefit to rearrange things the other way. Plus, it would benefit the scumbags who try to abuse the system, so it's not likely to get changed.

To any webmasters here who just want to get listed, and who aren't cheaters already, just move to reputable hosting and forget about this problem.

Simon

(didn't we cover all this in yesterday's OTB?)

thanks for detailed reply. =)

just wanna add a few things to previous posts made by Yahook, Scooter and me.

1) nobody clearly stated what are you fighting against. I do understand your position when you talk about cp or other illegal shit. yes. hosting company must prevent such kind of activity. but when you're are talking about cheaters who redirect traffic from freesites in example, I do not understand, how can hosting company prevent this. they do not do anything illegal, right? the reason why I'd want to clear this up is that I know some hosting companies which are banned, but they never hosted any illegal stuff. so we are coming to a conclusion: poster should be hosted with wellknown company like isprime, webair or something like that. I believe this is stupid. if I know some good and honest hosting provider, whose pricing policy is more attractive for me than isprime's one I think I can use it. you think I can't, because you don't know this hosting provider (you don't know who are this guys so they are possible cheaters. that's a normal psychological reaction). that's what is usually called 'conflict of interests'. everybody should make his or her own choice - would they rather host their sites with hosting company they like or submit this sites to link lists which do not like this hosting company. business is always finding a compromise. but. business has at least two sides. in our situation those sides are posters and owners. the only reason for this discussion is that some link list owners play unfair. you want poster to everything while you do nothing. at least you could send a one-time banning notification. cheaters won't read it, for a honest poster it can be useful. you want us to respect your work, and we do so. the only thing we want from you is to show some respect to our work. that's first.

2) I believe banning for own nameservers is stupid. 'bogus whois hosting'. lol. do not give access to the shared blacklist to those idiots who do not know what is dedicated server. it wouldn't be a problem, but it is, because some owners just ignore appeals.

3) all the hosts mentioned in this topic are Russian hosting providers. in fact almost all Russian hosting providers are banned. (I mean Russian hosting providers who allow adult material) that makes link list posting for Russian newbie* webmasters really hard and even impossible**. I know that's not your problem I'm just trying to explain why we are worrying about this so much***.


__________________
* most experienced Russian webmasters have epassporte account or credit card, so they are able to get a hosting by foreign company. but actually even for an experienced webmaster this is really incovinient due to different reasons. once again I want to point out, that not all of the banned Russian hosting providers host any kind of cheaters or illegal stuff. some of them are banned just because they are not 'known and reputated' for american webmasters.
** only when talking about link lists which ban hosting providers.
*** especially for Surfn. non of the webmasters posted in this topic are newbies.

[Yahook]

I see in the result - there are not garantee for webmaster. Any hosting can be banned and his sites will be deleted.

And my conclusion: Webmasters have to follow rules of big linklists like Link-O-Rama and so on even if they are like this one, because these linklits have lots of quality traffic.

IMHO: As for small linklits with PR4 and 300-500 backward links that are "too big" to ban hosting companies - I don't think they should post there at all. No traffic and no Pagerank and NO GARANTEE!

[Yahook]

Surfn, sorry for posting this link, but which traffic are you talking about? I don't see any traffic, but you already ban hosting companies
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?u...adultlinks.com

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Yahook

Surfn, sorry for posting this link, but which traffic are you talking about? I don't see any traffic, but you already ban hosting companies
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?u...adultlinks.com

That's not my main LL just the one I accept partners for. Ask them if they like my traffic.

[Surfn]

I like new webmasters. I spend a good amount of time helping them. I do not like cheaters.

Good webmasters learn to work within the system. Cheaters whine and complain they are being treated unfairly because you make it harder for them to cheat you.

[Yahook]

And sorry guys, I really don't want any war with you, just want everything to be honest. I like new webmasters, they can post lots of free sites, with you policy you decrease the number of this webmasters.