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#1 | |
Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,914
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Quote:
Suppose all we webmasters, especially the small linklist owners, spent a couple hours a month researching and reporting spam networks using these special techniques? In theory, the spam networks would start collapsing _much faster_. All of our pages would rise in the results and the surfers would be happier because they haven't been harrassed by spammers and toolbar installers and the like. Happy surfers spend money. The hundreds of signups these guys are taking from our pockets become ours again. I mention small linklist owners becuase they would, in theory, benefit the most. They are using a centralized search engine strategy, but they can't compete head to head with GG or penisbot or Jays. The spots they can get with the centralized strategy are the ones most easily attacked by script spammers. So, the struggling small LL owners would probably see actual cash benefits the quickest... Like I said, a new business model, based on the concept of attacking the spam networks to get our spots back. |
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#2 |
Shut up brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 115
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No offence but IMHO you will struggle to make a dent...
All SE spammers work on the assumption that their shit's going to get banned sooner rather than later, and if you're smart then you'll build everything different so it's difficult to catch algorithmically... all those combined man hours of trying to report spam are nullified by running the script a few more times. It's a simple equation of money in vs. money out... time is not a factor for the spammer except for the development time of the scripts themselves, and the established spammer can afford to throw as many servers as is required at the problem. All you will do is turn a proportion of the small LL owners to the dark side by revealing black hat tricks of which they would otherwise be ignorant. Small LL owners and free site builders just cannot compete with the sheer volume of stuff, the tools, the high level of optimization or the volume of linking power that either spammers or more accomplished white hat SEOs can bring to the table. I should add that I have heaps of respect for the Penisbot/ Dangerdave style white hats with real volume, and I think that is an awesome business model, just not one that interests me... but there is no room in the world of SEs for the miniroller if you want to make real money... IMHO. The advantage of the group reporting system is that the big dog white hats get the little yappers to do their shit work for them. |
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#3 |
Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,914
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There is some truth to that, BUT...
1. There is no market force to stop scriptspammers from pushing the button and adding even more pages to google. The one thing that is absolutely certain, is that if we don't counterattack spam, spam will continue to grow and take money from our pockets. 2. By definition, every scripted spam network of 125,000 pages we knock out will increase the number of dollars in our pockets. 3. Google's new patent with it's ageing implications, if it is active, may level the playing field a bit, as may other changes in search technology. Scripted "junk" content is an information problem that will be solved sooner or later. 4. It might warm the cockles of our hearts to be the ones putting the shaft to the spammers, as opposed to the alternative. --- As far as I'm concerned, the primary issue here is the question of wether or not the spamreport can actually be effective. It obviously _should_ be done, the question is _can_ it be done... |
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#4 |
Shut up brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 115
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So can someone tell me why you don't think that sponsors should not accept perfectly legal traffic? For example, with the filehandler.biz guy's stuff - no laws are being broken, no mainstream surfers are being forced to look at porn, there's no blog/ wiki/ ref spamming, about the only thing he's guilty of is adding some hidden links to the bottom of the pages on his own site and using a content delivery method that the SEs themselves use. The guy isn't filling up the internet with hardcore free porn for minors to look at (except for the single hosted galleries to which he sends some of his traffic). In my view this is certainly no worse than expired domain traffic (with which a far greater proportion of mainstream surfers get sucked into looking at porn) and no one ever bitches about that.
Oh sorry, I forgot, he's "cheating honest webmasters." ![]() SPAM = Site Positioned Above Mine ![]() |
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#5 |
I can now put whatever I want in this space :P
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Greetings doublep. Glad you guys sort this out.
I have a question about it: why does this guy have the lyrics paravan? I don't get it. Is he tricking the SEs in some way with it? They crawl the first few pages, give his domain the "ok" and only then they get into the porn stuff which they think it's ok too? I mean, it's a porn site, even if it doesn't have the right domain name. So, why the front? Why not have porn on the main page to act like a hub or something?
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine! |
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#6 | |
Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,914
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Quote:
The "holy grail" for a script spammer like this is to get control of a high PR mainstream domain like this one WITHOUT triggering the devaluation penalty that google applies to recently transferred names. There are two ways to do this - one is to convince someone to turn over a domain to you without changing the name of the registrant. The second is to buy a name, then let it sit for a year without changing the content, to get around the approximately 4-8 month long penalty that google applies. Then, you use scripts to generate tons of fake content, and use the original domains high PR to get the pages pushed ahead of everyone elses actual content pages. So, he's done something on that order. There are other possibilities, but the two I mentioned are the most common. It's easier to buy a mainstream domain with high PR, nobody with an adult domain with high PR would sell it cheaply. |
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#7 |
Took the hint.
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Doublep, I am not in the slight bit racists or otherwise having prejudice to people (my girlfriend is from a completely different culture, as are many of the friends).
However, if I want to locate an SE spammer or a link list cheater, I can assure you 110% that I have way more chance to find one if I head just slightly east of your location. Some of the best programmers in the world, combined with a "fuck the system" attitude and a willingness to do almost anything for money makes certain eastern block countries heaven for spammers, scammers, and jammers. It's not racist, it's what almost 10 years in this business has taught me. Alex |
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#8 |
Took the hint.
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Bill, in theory, you are right, in reality, you are wrong.
The average SE spammer is working 1 cycle ahead. They are assuming that whatever is up this month is going to be toast in the next update, so they are already working on the next batch. Figure probably 10 real cycles per year, so they have 10 projects per year. So we can bitch and moan and whine and get google to remove their domains at the end of a cycle - only to have it all replaced with another pile of spamming dung. They are laughing at you because instead of improving your own stuff, you have been killing off what they were already assumign would be dead. That is the beauty for them to what they do - they only things exposed are at the end's of their lives anyway. Google works as a reactive system to spam. You report spam, they look at it, they develop new tools for their algo, and they hope to kill the spam the next time around without deleting half the web on the way by. They are 100% reactive, and 100% committed to removing spam through careful (and often convoluted) programming methods. It's a totally bullshit way to get rid of spam. Considering the value of Google these days, they can afford to hire a small group (20 - 40 people) to spend their days looking at the sites in the top 20 of the top 1000 searches, plus whatever domains have marked increases in pages in a given update cycle. If a domain goes from 200 pages to 125,000 pages in a month, well, it shoudl be flagged for review BY A HUMAN. Then they need to make it so said domain can be banned and removed INSTANTLY (or as instantly as possible) rather than having it slowly fade out over a 30-60 day period. Google really blows at this point, and it's getting worse instead of better. Alex |
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#9 |
Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,914
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Ahhh, Alex, so then you are saying that the google spamreport doesn't work?
At a minimum, you appear to be saying it doesn't work well enough to be bothered with. |
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#10 |
Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,914
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You said...
---- They are laughing at you because instead of improving your own stuff, you have been killing off what they were already assumign would be dead. ---- Alex, first of all, it's not possible for the average webmaster to "improve" their own stuff to a level where it effectively compete with a comitted spammer. But that's another issue. If it can't be done by spending a few hours per month, if it takes more time than that, I agree, it wouldn't work. But, it's possible that the return on investment for two hours a month of spam reporting could be significant. We don't have to stop spam completly, but like with any parasite, it could be healthy to knock it back every once in a while. I share your general annoyance at google. I have yet to actually, personally SEE the google spamreport work. I think it's an experiment that should be tried. |
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#11 |
If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 306
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Alex - I know for a fact you are not a racist
![]() Like yourself, I'm a link list owner, I have enough on my plate keeping cheaters at bay on my own little corner of the web. Unfortunately greed is prevalent in all races - the point I was making is that not all members of any particular race are cheaters - most have morals and integrity - and lumping the tendency for greed and deception on any group just because they are outside of ones country is wrong - hence, I did get a little wound up by Gideon's post when I read parasite and foreigner in the same line. To be honest - I'm past caring who is spamming Google with this and that new technique - let Google worry about it - it's their traffic after all - not mine or any other webmasters - cheaters will always be here - as you say ".. we can bitch and moan and whine and get google to remove their domains at the end of a cycle - only to have it all replaced with another pile of spamming dung". And also, as you rightly say, the only way you can compete with them is improving your own stuff! That I do believe to be true. |
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#12 |
NO! Im not a female - but being a dragon, I do eat them.
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Alex - actually Google has hired rooms full of people -they are online as of a few months ago doing "quality hand checks" - part of a university project they have going on
As far as the spam report - yeah it works - may not seem that way in some cases - but those are the ones that Google tries to fight over a long period of time. More important though - most of this building ahead and knowing your stuff is toast a wekk after it appears is very correct - and accounted for - so for the ones that want to take the few minutes to fill out the report - thats fine - if not - thats fine too |
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#13 |
If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 306
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Go on then, count me in - I'll help out anyway I can.
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#14 |
If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 306
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.. and Gideon - I checked your blog, it's right up my street
![]() I loved this: TVNL Editor's Comments: This morning Miles O'Brien, the pretend journalist on CNN, asked a shark expert what he thought “the shark was thinking” while it was biting the girl who was killed in Florida. Am I wrong or can we simply declare that the talking heads on CNN are idiots? What kind of question is that? He also asked the expert what makes this attack different than other attacks. I’ll answer that…the overblown and idiotic media coverage. Cheers - I'm going to send you an icq request ![]() |
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#15 |
They have the Internet on computers, now?
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I have already got so many guys removed it took me a few minutes to find one lol.. but here is one
google this "site:wftp.org" |
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#16 |
If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 306
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Ok - here is something interesting for you I think. I Googled 'free porn movies' http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ee+porn+movies
Top ten is TGP's, one link site in there. I surfed most of them and came away unscathed. But check the sponsored links - I'm seeing 2 domains only on there. I clicked on this one http://www.porn--for--free.com/ it then hi-jacked my browser! - Try it using Internet Explorer. One of life's little ironies! I'll look for more tomorrow. Cheers! |
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#17 | |
If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 306
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#18 | |
You can now put whatever you want in this space :)
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__________________
Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm. |
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#19 |
You can now put whatever you want in this space :)
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Here is one guy using the same script/database to generate the same exact pages over multiple domains (and I'm not talking just 2-3). He does use a noarchive tag, so who knows, the pages may well be cloaked.
premiumxxxlinks.com netcybersex.com finderoticlinks.com foxypetites.com jackoffsites.com viewpornos.com foxytranssexuals.com smutplaza.com nakedblondies.com nakedpeeing.com 11inchdicks.com xlbreasts.com nudesites.net xxxsexorgy.com sexyviews.com ipornlinks.com xxxnakedsites.com over30porn.com xxxindexer.com xxxexhibitionists.com nakedbisexuals.com upskirtlove.com xxxsitereviews.com seesexvideos.com xxxpornlinks.net sexsitedomains.com myadultlinks.net There are tons more, but my fingers are getting tired, so I'll stop here. Notice he uses comments <-- keywords: --> and <-- description: --> in the HTML a number of times on the top/bottom of the page. He also uses <img src width=1 height=1 ALT="description:......."> to put more invisible text on the page. He uses multiple CCBill accounts, including 603702, 620418, 603704, and many more (I guess he decided to use a different account for each site, for whatever reason). DHDRevEx affiliate code: 107924 Porn Star Bucks: 17114 Verotel ID: 9804000000567825 Dollar 4 Babes: 103118 Gorgia Cash: 100189 ARS: 94164 Silvercash: 257472 Light Speed Girls: 39767 Maximum Cash: nkamat Gorilla Cash: gt2103 Giga Cash: 156751 Epic Cash: fslfsl Adult Lounge: 101419 Traffic Cash Gold: top10links Sunny Dollars: 1364 Pimp Roll: pimp4753 Adult Players Club: hcfsl Platinum Bucks: 1259 Top Bucks: 5776 ..The list goes on. BTW, you can't find the affiliate codes from looking at the source code. I was able to see the actual affiliate links using http://web-sniffer.net/ Good news is only about 150 pages from each domain is indexed in Google, so far. The bad news is if a domain ranks for a key phrase, and positions above your page, then your page will be pushed a *few* pages down from all the above domains showing up above your link. Read the descriptions for all the listings and of course they're identical, except for the leading text which contains the domain name (I guess used to avoid being listed as similar pages). EDIT: Added a few more info as I came across more stuff. Double check the affiliate IDs; since I extracted them from ref codes, I can't vouch for their complete accuracy.
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Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm. |
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#20 |
Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,914
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gideon, that's a beautiful sample. That's a classic.
halfdeck, from your original description I was momentarily doubtful, but all it takes is dropping two or three of those names into the googlebar to see that it's just a distributed version of the first one. A lot of structural similarities, actually. Two good finds. |
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#21 | |
You can now put whatever you want in this space :)
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Quote:
Just do a search on google for "kristina lee" porn to see the pages in action. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...rn&btnG=Search With 10 results/page, you're looking at result pages 1-41 taken over by this guy's duplicate pages...(so redefine site positioned above mine to SITES positioned above mine) and he's not even using subdomains. Freeone comes up on page 31, and they usually place relatively high for model names. Rabbitsreview on page 38-39, and my pages on 37. Even if Google had a "block this site" feature, the surfer will have to do a lot of clicking to make those links dissappear.
__________________
Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm. |
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#22 |
Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 504
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This looks like a very promising move by the honest webmaster community
![]() It would be useful to me (and so probably many others) if the whole concept of finding spam websites could be explained in the form of a tutorial and what actions should be taken. This tutorial could then be posted on other boards to to try and encourage involvement by many other webmasters. I think this has idea has good potential to have a good effect on our SE rankings and therefore our wallets - while not solving the problem could put a nice dent in it. And one thing I can be sure of with spammers is thier after the easy buck - thier not prepared to do the hardwork - and this sort of thing makes them work harder.
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Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files |
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#23 |
Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,914
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A tutorial huh? What kinds of things should be in that tutorial, I wonder.
Definitely instructions on how to effectively use the spamreport page. I have a good general idea of the optimum ways to do this, but I'm not at all an expert on it. We'd want to ask for some input from the experts. ---- I think the new patent's implications have already been understood by the spammers, and that we should expect to see distrbuted spam that is built more slowly- basically, instead of 1 site with a sudden 10,000 pages 10 sites with a sudden few hundred to a thousand pages. This is one of the things I wa seeing as I was casually spam hunting. I think there was less spam than usual in the top tens, but it was fully occupying the results from #11 on down. Here's some samples of what i think is distrubuted spam. keyword + page scriptspamming I think by all the same guy. http://hyperfree.com/hardcore/clips/...es-photos.html site:hyperfree.com Results 1 - 20 of about 38,500 from hyperfree.com hyperfree looks to be a freehost so page count may not apply. http://mpegs.b33r.net/sex-videos/fre...deo-clips.html site:mpegs.b33r.net Results 1 - 20 of about 883 from mpegs.b33r.net http://prostrace.wftp.org/en/videos.html site:prostrace.wftp.org Results 1 - 20 of about 70 from prostrace.wftp.org this might be the same guy, but also might not: http://sraka.nerdcamp.net/2005/jul/9...cum-shots.html site:sraka.nerdcamp.net Results 1 - 20 of about 921 from sraka.nerdcamp.net Another variety of spam with cloaking and redirecting: http://www.cheneycowles.org/videos/f...l-cumshots.htm site:www.cheneycowles.org Results 1 - 20 of about 749 from www.cheneycowles.org redirects to what looks like an igotguns page |
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#24 |
Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 504
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I think the tutorial should just cover how to identify spammers in SE results - e.g what to look for - and then once you have found it a detailed step by step tutorial on how to report it to google, yahoo etc.
Keeping it as simple and as short as you can so ppl will read it and will act on its advice. Post it in a number of forums and I'm sure you would get a good number of ppl spending a few hours a month to fight the spammers. Something we would likely all benifit from.
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Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files |
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#25 |
If there is nobody out there, that's a lot of real estate going to waste!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,177
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One of the easiest to spot is duplicate page names and descriptions taking up multiple top spots. I even saw one that was tossing out different responses for every hit on the same page?????
I think using the SE spam reports, and also hammering the sponsors is a worthwhile effort. |
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