Anyone here feel best qualified to be point man with the FSC?

[Bill]

Meatpounder, we can't know yet if the FSC is the right organization to ally with, we're still in the stage of gathering information.

However, our choices of which organizations to ally with are not large. We've already made an impact on the FSC because of the rush of webmaster memberships related to 2257. Thats a kind of investment on our part. Before we throw away that investment I would say we should try to give the FSC some new tasks and see how well they can carry out our political wishes.

I'm open to suggestions as to other organizations that could be of use.

An older face&phone organization might be exactly what we need. Congress is all about connections, who you know, and Congress is an even older school face&phone system.

So having some old school face&phone types as 'hired guns' might be exactly what we need.

It's possible that everything we need could be done without going to meetings.

[Toni KatVixen]

I like the summary that Bill created; I would add that we want the point person that can have credibility with the webmasters and have an understanding of the issues we face, so they should have been involved (at one time) in the internet side of the business. So having an already established board personality would go a long way to accomplishing that.

Ps. I vote for point man, it is the army brat in me.

[Far-L]

My partner Spike is an excellent liasion. We are FSC members, have a long history of being proactive in political and financial issues that impact our industry. ( I was part of a lobby group that defeated a porn tax in California among other issues, like Acacia for example)

We have an excellent relationship with Tom Hymes and would be happy to help coordinate communication.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

My partner Spike is an excellent liasion. We are FSC members, have a long history of being proactive in political and financial issues that impact our industry. ( I was part of a lobby group that defeated a porn tax in California among other issues, like Acacia for example)

We have an excellent relationship with Tom Hymes and would be happy to help coordinate communication.

Let's meet Spike and hear his views. I'd love to chat with him and I don't think we have a lot of time to start educating the FSC.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Let's meet Spike and hear his views. I'd love to chat with him and I don't think we have a lot of time to start educating the FSC.

With all due respect the FSC will always need to be educated on the issues so that they can be more proactive on our behalf. That is the purpose of the trade organization.

I will be happy to have Spike jump in here to share his views.

[Greenguy]

I smell another Radio Show conference call using Home Grown's phone lines

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

I smell another Radio Show conference call using Home Grown's phone lines

Well all you ever have to do is ask my friend and we are there!

[RawAlex]

Spike has certainly shown in the past to be good at this sort of thing, and homegrown certainly does bridge the gap between the walmarts and the indies.

Alex

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Spike has certainly shown in the past to be good at this sort of thing, and homegrown certainly does bridge the gap between the walmarts and the indies.

Alex

Thanks!

I like to think that we bridge the gap between the old brick and mortar and the online worlds too...

[RawAlex]

Sadly, it looks like other people are on the move on this issue, and we are barely even talking:

http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?P...tent_ID=259202

Can someone get to cambria before he goes and volunteers us to have complicated and mostly overblown labels all over our sites?

Alex

[Ms Naughty]

Eeeek!
*Runs around in circles screaming*
Spike! Spiiiiiiike!
Perhaps we can whip up a statement to send them?

[Ms Naughty]

OK, I stopped running in circles and threw together this draft statement-type-thing.

Feel free to say it's shite, if necessary. I just thought it might be a start. Now I have to get back to work.
-----------------

We, as adult webmasters are eager to prevent minors from accessing our material.

We believe that a rating system, rather than an AVS, is the best way to do this.

The results of a poll reveal that a majority of webmasters favor a simple meta tag as the best way to prevent children from accessing sites that are obviously adult. This is a simple self-rating system that can be easily adopted by adult webmasters and can, we believe, be used in addition to the existing ICRA PICS rating system.

The ICRA system can be used to rate “borderline” sites that may need more specific labeling, as an alternative to, or in addition to, the simple meta tag.

We are prepared to lobby other webmasters to take up labeling and will encourage the use of labels through rules on linklists and TGPs.

-------------

I also had the idea about affiliate programs asking affiliates to label their sites, but that's just another vague thought...

Edit: Maybe this post belongs in the label poll thread. And maybe ICRA doesn't want statements sent to their "invitation only" meetings. My apologies if this post is kind of off topic.

[MeatPounder]

So the rep has to be a west coast webmaster?
They cuts out 90% of the link list view you are looking for

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by MeatPounder

So the rep has to be a west coast webmaster?
They cuts out 90% of the link list view you are looking for

No but it is a good idea... Obviously if you want to lobby at the federal level you need to have lobbyists in Washington. Similarly, if you want the best FSC representation then you want to have not just a voice but a face too at the FSC meetings - which are generally in California.

The only people that really should concern themselves with what the FSC can do for them are FSC members.

The FSC, first and foremost, is a trade organization that works on behalf of its membership. They are not the ACLU and it is a lucky coincidence that much of their work goes on to benefit all the others that are not members.

When you all are asking this representation let me ask in return - are you all members? I seriously don't think it is fair to demand something of an organization that you are not making a commitment to in return.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Far-L

No but it is a good idea... Obviously if you want to lobby at the federal level you need to have lobbyists in Washington. Similarly, if you want the best FSC representation then you want to have not just a voice but a face too at the FSC meetings - which are generally in California.

The only people that really should concern themselves with what the FSC can do for them are FSC members.

The FSC, first and foremost, is a trade organization that works on behalf of its membership. They are not the ACLU and it is a lucky coincidence that much of their work goes on to benefit all the others that are not members.

When you all are asking this representation let me ask in return - are you all members? I seriously don't think it is fair to demand something of an organization that you are not making a commitment to in return.

It's thinking like this that reaffirms my position that independent webmasters hold the keys to their own destiny. Collective representation is more monotheistic than most people realize. I will never support the FSC.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Surfn

It's thinking like this that reaffirms my position that independent webmasters hold the keys to their own destiny. Collective representation is more monotheistic than most people realize. I will never support the FSC.

No problem. If you think indie webmasters can do what a professional organization can that is made up of many with similar interests then have at it. To the best of my recollection, no indie company stepped up to dealing with the feds alone in the 2257 proceedings.

A trade organization like FSC is not "monotheistic". It is democratic and all paying members have voting privileges.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Far-L

When you all are asking this representation let me ask in return - are you all members? I seriously don't think it is fair to demand something of an organization that you are not making a commitment to in return.

I have been assuming that everyone seriously involved in this discussion so far are members.

One of the big questions, or perhaps positions is a better word, has been "Should we renew our memberships when they come up this summer, and can we use the power of those renewals (or choosing not to renew) to get the FSC to communicate with us more and take some of the actions we want to see.".

If there isn't more communication between the FSC and onliners I think a large number of webmasters who joined over 2257 will let their memberships lapse.

And if the FSC doesn't add an online CC processor for memberships and donations, I think a lot of webmasters will also let their memberships lapse.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Bill

I have been assuming that everyone seriously involved in this discussion so far are members.

One of the big questions, or perhaps positions is a better word, has been "Should we renew our memberships when they come up this summer, and can we use the power of those renewals (or choosing not to renew) to get the FSC to communicate with us more and take some of the actions we want to see.".

If there isn't more communication between the FSC and onliners I think a large number of webmasters who joined over 2257 will let their memberships lapse.

And if the FSC doesn't add an online CC processor for memberships and donations, I think a lot of webmasters will also let their memberships lapse.

Great points, thanks.

I think the success so far of the 2257 rebuttal is reason to stay with the organization - and like I have said in other threads, the are many other successes the FSC has achieved on behalf of its members that make it worthwhile.

The online join is a great idea and I will bring that to Tom Hymes personally, find out the status, and come back to this thread with an update.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I think the success so far of the 2257 rebuttal is reason to stay with the organization...

I agree. The FSC stepped up to the plate on 2257 and aceived a success which benefits every webmaster in the business, including non-US webmasters and non-FSC members.

It wasn't a perfect and ideal process, and you'll hear complaints about it, but the bottom line is still - the FSC fought the feds on 2257 and got the result webmasters wanted, which was protection for secondary producers.

This is the big reason that I think we should ally with the FSC, and try to make it "THE webmasters trade organization".

Do you know who is behind the Adult Freedom Foundation and Paul Cambria, Far-L?

[Ms Naughty]

LOL
“THE ADULT FREEDOM FOUNDATION WILL SPEAK WITH A NEW VOICE," he shouted.

Damn, it's hard to read things in capital letters.

Even so, it's a decent enough mission statement.

[RawAlex]

Far-L, the FSC needs to clean up some of the very basic things before they can move on to really representing us properly.

First off, let me say this: I am not currently an FSC member. However, I have a closet filled with everything FSC has ever offered at the shows, and I routinely toss a large bill in the bin at every show. The trade shows I have been involved with have always supported and helped the FSC to be at the shows and give them the time and space to discuss their issues.

I am not a member, and the reasons are simple:

1) The membership rates need to be clarified and made SIMPLE to understand, and they must reflect the business we are in online. Free site/ gallery builder - single paysite owner / solo amateur site operator - program owner - content provider - services provider (hosting etc) - independant worker (graphic artists, site designs, etc). Set the rates, publish them, make them reasonable, and get everyone under the umbrella.

2) Make signup online work. This isn't a big deal, I am sure that the major processors would gladly provide services at reasonable, reduced, or even cost price rates.

3) FSC needs to put someone in charge of communication to the online community, and make an effort to not only provide the news "when it breaks" but to put a regular flow of information in the hands of it's members. If commercial organizations like AVN and XBIZ can get the mail out there (and every other program in the universe mails regularly) why can't FSC get to it?

4) Work more on not only informing webmasters and movie people about what is going on, but also to provide a public information site where we woudl feel comfortable sending surfers to make them better informed about what is going on and how acts of the US government could limit thier access to the porn they enjoy.

At this point, I think the FSC is running so fast that it doesn't have time to focus on finding it's focus and working to do what organizations need to do: Represent and listen to it's members.

Alex

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Far-L, the FSC needs to clean up some of the very basic things before they can move on to really representing us properly.

First off, let me say this: I am not currently an FSC member. However, I have a closet filled with everything FSC has ever offered at the shows, and I routinely toss a large bill in the bin at every show. The trade shows I have been involved with have always supported and helped the FSC to be at the shows and give them the time and space to discuss their issues.

I am not a member, and the reasons are simple:

1) The membership rates need to be clarified and made SIMPLE to understand, and they must reflect the business we are in online. Free site/ gallery builder - single paysite owner / solo amateur site operator - program owner - content provider - services provider (hosting etc) - independant worker (graphic artists, site designs, etc). Set the rates, publish them, make them reasonable, and get everyone under the umbrella.

2) Make signup online work. This isn't a big deal, I am sure that the major processors would gladly provide services at reasonable, reduced, or even cost price rates.

3) FSC needs to put someone in charge of communication to the online community, and make an effort to not only provide the news "when it breaks" but to put a regular flow of information in the hands of it's members. If commercial organizations like AVN and XBIZ can get the mail out there (and every other program in the universe mails regularly) why can't FSC get to it?

4) Work more on not only informing webmasters and movie people about what is going on, but also to provide a public information site where we woudl feel comfortable sending surfers to make them better informed about what is going on and how acts of the US government could limit thier access to the porn they enjoy.

At this point, I think the FSC is running so fast that it doesn't have time to focus on finding it's focus and working to do what organizations need to do: Represent and listen to it's members.

Alex

Tremendous feedback and excellent suggestions! I will bring these things up as well.

[SirMoby]

Yes, I'm a member and I think no matter what the FSC deserves support from everyone that is benefiting from their efforts. Lack of online signup is an excuse and not a reason for nonsupport.

Are they perfect? Nope, but who else is stepping up to fight the legal battle for the right to free speech and privacy?

As RawAlex points out you don't have to be a member to support them. I would like them to improve many things but they are doing what is most important and that is protecting people from the legal nut cases that feel rights are only for those identical to themselves.

I will request 2 things before I renew though.

1. They keep fighting the legal battles just like they are now. No need to change things.

2. Get back in front of the Senate and correct the false statements. Such as explaining that most responsible webmasters are labeling their sites, that AVS cannot work based on today's technology and that we are more then happy to work on a better labeling system that can be easily adopted by all sites including news sites.

To me that's what's most important.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Lack of online signup is an excuse and not a reason for nonsupport.

It's not an excuse, it's a political demand.

I plan on not renewing my membership unless I can do it online.

And I will be trying to persuade others to do likewise.

Politics is all about symbolism and messages. The symbolism of not having an online method to take memberships and donations is profound.

It says, loudly and unmistakeably, "We don't give a fuck about you onliners.".

It is a core issue. A line in the sand. If they can't get their shit together enough to install a goddamn CC processor they are not worthy of onliner support.

I am totally committed to this position.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Bill

It's not an excuse, it's a political demand.

I plan on not renewing my membership unless I can do it online.

Using an online processor for $100s of dollars where nothing is actually shipped has charge back written all over it. I would have concerns about accepting $300 from webmasters that understand chargebacks. Wouldn't you if it was your business?