Affiliate program growth

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

I think the main points on all this is that you don't have to have NATS or MPA or whatever to run a successful business AND having one of them does not mean that your program is better than one that uses the CC processor's tools.

I would go as far to say that programs that don't use NATS or MPA are better. As an affiliate, I used to love the bells and whistles. I really did. But as time goes on and I anaylze my sales trends, I see consistancy in the sales/rebills I make with CCBill programs and odd behaviour amongst the programs I'm affialiated with that use other tools. That's all I'm going to say.

Disclaimer: The preceding text is opinion and is based on one man's experience. The author realizes that opinion is dangerous when it conflicts with the opinions of others and the author is thusly willing to compromise by saying, "that's too fucking bad". If you feel the preceding text is implying something that was not overtly stated, then you are probably a lot fucking smarter than you look. PS - The author is behind you, looking through the window.

[LB]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

LB - you're painting with a very big brush on this. I am emotionally attached in a ridiculous manner to a lot of my sites (this board included) and I have a ton of great business relationships.

I think the main points on all this is that you don't have to have NATS or MPA or whatever to run a successful business AND having one of them does not mean that your program is better than one that uses the CC processor's tools.

I can accept that. I was just voicing my on topic opinion ... I didn't realise I would get lynchmobbed for it.

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by LB

Though I warn about being too emotionally attached to your business, though having pride in what you've built may have been what you meant. Overly emotional business men and women are a pain to deal with and usually find it hard to foster more than a handful of good business relationships.

Add me to the chorus!

Some of us don't want to foster more than "a handful of good business relationships"... as that is about the limit of decent reliable people in this biz, and probably all we need.

DD

[Evil Chris]

Greenguy, I think that making the switch just for the extra bells & whistles isn't a very smart move. The main reason (as I see it) to make the move to a NATS would be to have a better control of your program.

The ability to bill with any processor (even your own merchant accounts) being paramount here. The extra gadgets such as hosted galleries etc. are indeed a plus, but that sort of thing can be easily programmed outside the boundaries of NATS if desired.

For me, using your own stats comes down to growth, as indicated in the thread title.

[DangerDave]

Amen, Emmanuelle.

The use of NATS does not a quality program make.

In my view, NATS counts against a program when I am assessing it for 'use'.

DD

[amadman]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Amen, Emmanuelle.

The use of NATS does not a quality program make.

In my view, NATS counts against a program when I am assessing it for 'use'.

DD

Ditto.

[The Ghost]

It seems the whole issue boils down to trusting the sponsor you are working with. Having a certain software does not magically make anyone more money. Affiliate support and great content is key.

But I've dealt with both CCBill only and Nats programs and MPA3 etc. I know the feelings of some of the older programs trying new technologies and softwares. I dealt with the same thing when alot of the old distributors were hesitant to make the jump to DVD. The word "fad" came up alot. Heck, most of those old pro adult companies considered the internet as a fad as well. They're singing a different tune now. Many of the established CCbill companies have been burned by the ibill of the world, etc. And we all know the old expression, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

Having a Nats style affiliate software can enable you to make your partners and yourself more money if it is utilized correctly. There is no question about it. I have no idea why CCBill hasn't made their affiliate software better. It's been something that's been asked of CCbill for years. I know there are aspects of the obtaining of the promotional content that can be a pain to get to in Nats if you're not used to it. But one of the great things in Nats is tracking every campaign you create. So if you place a banner, or gallery or ad, you (the affiliate) can see how it's doing.

With my new program I had the option to start with the CCbill based program, and I did consider it. By using only CCbill only business model, a sponsor does not have to think about sending out affiliate checks, setting up additional processors, etc. But a few things lead me away from that business model. Cascading billing to help my partners get those additonal sales. The ability to direct certain countries to certain billers. It is more work to have Nats or similar program, but the tools are worth it. There are some features that might be bells and whistles, but those are only if you don't use them. Again though, it falls back on the integrity of the program it's self. If you as an affiliate and parter are worried about not getting paid and do not want to promote the program, it's all for nothing.

And for the minimum payments and such, a program can set their minimum to whatever they want. I have the IslandDollars minimum set at $25, which is a little less than 2 sales.

I already know of a few estabished older, larger CCBill based programs that will be taking the plunge to different affiliate software. You know why? Because they have no idea where their traffic comes from, or how to improve their programs. That is the truth. They will also keep their old program operating for any affiliates that do not want to switch over.

If anyone wants to talk more, I try to always be around on IcQ.

[tigermom]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

It seems the whole issue boils down to trusting the sponsor you are working with. Having a certain software does not magically make anyone more money. Affiliate support and great content is key.

Amen to that. I have what I consider good sponsors using CCBill and others using their own system. What matters to me is their conversions and affiliate support, I can handle rest with either system.

That said, I do wish CCBill would have breakdown by site. I have a great new sponsor that has two sites, I'm making sales but I'm not sure where the sales are coming from (freesites? blogs?) or even which sites are making the sales (of the two sponsor's sites).

[Evil Chris]

I never meant for anyone to get so defensive in this thread.

I would however, like to point out something that has maybe been missed in all of this. Purely using CCBill's affiliate system rather than your own independant system is limiting your program's growth. You cannot use any other processor. Your hands are tied.

Not once did I say that one program might be better than another based on any of this. The question here is about growth and flexibility.

[hollywood376]

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

Purely using CCBill's affiliate system rather than your own independant system is limiting your program's growth. You cannot use any other processor. Your hands are tied.

another huge reason I went with NATS. CCBILL is fine, although I think their fees are over the top. Because of that, I hope to move away from ccbill in the future to a merchant account. I was billing several hundred thousand a month in mainstream, but getting an adult processing merchant account with an american bank is more work than it's worth for a startup (you cant have a webcam, you cant have this, you cant do that, etc) so unless you are doing $100K plus per month in adult with a 1-2 year track record, you move into something like ccbill. But I also want the flexibility to provide paycom and other billers so that sales are better, affiliates are happier because sales are better and my girlfriend doesn;t leave me because we have to move into a cardboard box.

[GonZo]

Good thread on many levels!

[Beaver Bob]

To be honest, when I'm promoting a sponsor I don't really take into consideration whether its NATS or CCBILL or whatever. If it converts and has the tools I need to promote, thats what I'm concerned with.

And on the sponsor end of it, we use CCBILL, we're doing well, and don't feel a need to go to something else unless we decide to add cascading billing. Otherwise CCBILL's affiliate admin does the job just fine

[xcitecash]

This is interesting to us as we are at this point exactly as a fairly new programme ...
We intend to stay solely with CCbill for the future as we have looked into options and we cant see any value changing

[Kacy]

I have enjoyed this thread as well Chris I have alot of clients that ask me the same original question you had. I am happy to refer them to this thread now, as there was alot of great advice and opinions.

[Evil Chris]

Originally Posted by Kacy

I have enjoyed this thread as well Chris I have alot of clients that ask me the same original question you had. I am happy to refer them to this thread now, as there was alot of great advice and opinions.

Thanks Kacy...

[shunga]

To answer the original question, I would say when adding a second processor. And I would agree that NATS, or MPA, isn't necessary in itself. The admin and affiliate features are nice to have, but it's just window dressing without cascading processing.

[Kenny B!]

This is a great thread, and a subject where I can give my 2 cents and have them worth more perhaps:-)

Going with the original question, when starting an affiliate program your focus should first be on the sites in the program, if you have sites that convert then affiliates will promote you regardless of the back end you use.

I think it’s extremely important for programs to use a third party back end and here’s my reasoning (I cannot say one company nats/mpa/riverstyx/X3 is better then the other as I’ve only used nats and can only comment on their back end)

As a program owner I think having a third party software can only help you in building your business and you should budget it in to your start up costs. Sure there are the features that benefit affiliates, stats, access to content and link codes etc. But as an owner of an affiliate program you should want to have as detailed stats as possible. I find it extremely useful to see from where my affiliates are making their sale, it helps me support them better. When an affiliate signs up to you’re program you want to know as much information as possible to better help them with the promotion of your sites.

I find it much easier to add hosted promotional material to our program using the nats back end, and when promoting other sponsors I love the options to dump link codes in the format I chose.

I’m aware that many of the features offered by these affiliate back end software companies can be done with some scripting and coding. I sure as hell am not able to code it so having the option of a turn key solution really has helped me grow my business.

I like the fact I have access to my affiliates addresses, it made it possible for me to send them X-mas cards last year.

Btw Emma, You can set the min payout to whatever you like, that isn’t an issue.
If anyone is worried about a sponsor shaving, you shouldn’t promote them no matter what they use for billing, stats or hosting, use common sense here.

In conclusion :-) you do not need any third party affiliate back end to make a success of you sites and affiliate program but in my eyes it makes managing the whole program much easier and has helped us in being more productive.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

...If anyone is worried about a sponsor shaving, you shouldn’t promote them no matter what they use for billing, stats or hosting, use common sense here...

Agreed, but I've never heard anyone accuse CCBill of doing any shaving.

That said, shaving can be done many ways, and most of them DO NOT involve using the backend software.

[Kenny B!]

Originally Posted by Toby

Agreed, but I've never heard anyone accuse CCBill of doing any shaving.

That said, shaving can be done many ways, and most of them DO NOT involve using the backend software.

CCbill doesn't shave, but anyone who owns a website that uses CCBill as a biller can change links, have leaks on their tour, or find may other ways to skim off top.

I think these days the vast majority of programs spend their energy building their business and supporting affiliates, not finding ways to shave their partners.

[Kenny B!]

wow it's so much easier to just type "I'd hit it" LOL

[The Ghost]

NATS program owners (and probably any program owner) can set the minimum payout as low as they want. IslandDollars is at $25 (2 sales) and you can be paid either by check or Epassporte. I agree the higher payout is shitty, especially when trying a new program. That's why mines lower (or reasonable).

[JustRobert]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

IslandDollars is at $25

I did not know this. Maybe they should state something in their FAQ about this. Most nats programs are $100 with a few at $50. Anyway, since you put up that info I just signed up under you. Of course I now have to wait for approval which I understand but its still annoying since most signups with ccbill you are good to go once completed.

[juggernaut]

why is it that CCBill can send thousands and thousands of small checks out every single fucking week with a minimum payout of only $25, but sponsors, who send out a lot fewer checks, demand a minimum payout of $100 - and then only want to send checks out once or twice a month.

We all know what that is. That's no differant then cam sites. The programs secertly hope you only send them tons of signups. If you send them just a few and don't make the $100 then they are figuring you will get tired or not care so much. And if you don't send them anymore sign ups well that's $100 in their pocket.