Need help /raided and computers seized

[lassiter]

Originally Posted by webwoman

It was a setup ..still dont know why they raided me took all my stuff and left .
how do i get it back anyone have any information i can use to help fight this.

Possibly even more useful to contact in these cases than the ACLU is the NCSF (National Coalition for Sexual Freedom - http://www.ncsfreedom.org/

They specialize in legal issues concerning both lifestyle and professional BDSM practices.

[Chop Smith]

Rob, why the initial post of this? It certainly can only hurt your program. I, for one, questioned Cash4Fetish being listed on an adult resource page in lieu of this being made public.

I just cannot figure why folks air their legal problems in public?

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Rob, why the initial post of this? It certainly can only hurt your program. I, for one, questioned Cash4Fetish being listed on an adult resource page in lieu of this being made public.

I just cannot figure why folks air their legal problems in public?

Actually, if it fit my traffic better, I would be *more* inclined to link to a site that was going through tough times. I think that more than trying to garner attention from webmasters for their affiliate program, they were reaching out for support from a community, but sadly, there seems to be more animosity and "Egads, a hooker!" than anything else on this thread.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by lassiter

Possibly even more useful to contact in these cases than the ACLU is the NCSF (National Coalition for Sexual Freedom - http://www.ncsfreedom.org/

They specialize in legal issues concerning both lifestyle and professional BDSM practices.

Good one! Thanks for contributing something helpful.

[RawAlex]

furrygirl, it isn't "egads a hooker"... it is the discredit that comes to our industry when a working girl attempts to cloak herself in the "I am a webmaster" deal, looking for sympathy from our industry, all the while openly soliciting directly on the same websites we are suppose to send traffic to?

She openly solicites on the website, uses the standard "I don't charge a fee, but there is a manditory donation" doubletalk. In reality, this women appears to have built a full dungeon in her house in a residential area, and is accepting paying cusotmers for BDSM and sexual encouters.

This likely has little to do with "censorship" or "obscenity", and more to do with being caught being a prostitute and soliciting online for business.

Alex

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

"Egads, a hooker!"

that's really funny

are you implying that we are prudes ??

to tell you the truth it crossed my mind a little while after this thread got going
I started thinking that maybe I am getting to old
but then I thought

how could I be a prude
I am a pornographer...... and a damn good one at that

but either way Again I am standing with Alex

[Beaver Bob]

this has nothing to do with 2257 neither.. completley unrelated. it HAS to be prostitution and I must agree with Greenguy.

[Chop Smith]

I think I can read fairly well and I just reread this thread. Furrygirl, I fail to detect any animosity or anyone being judgmental.

I stand with Tommy and Aliex. I think publicity like this hurts our industry.

I do not think the initial poster was trying to garner attention from webmasters for their affiliate program. As I said, the initial post can only hurt their program. For certain, reputable webmasters will pull their links. Had the post not been made, 600+ webmasters would not have known about it.

There is a time to keep your fucking mouth closed.

[tickler]

Well it boils down to whether "sex" is involved or not.

[webwoman]

beaver bob you built my site cash4fetish sitting here after i flew 5 of you from arizona to ct to finish my sites. You also were in my videos, programmed my sites and slept in my home for the weekend. I paid 2000 to fly you all here plus 2000 for cash4fetish
and 300 for each site template. Look at thumbdesigners where the site was created and solicited to me via the owners of hardcoremodeling. I was over charged and more than gracious in accomadating all 5 of you here in my home business, when your crew took over 10,000 dollars you were not saying any thing about prostitution, you were looking to cash in. My private life is not the case here and neither is my personal site.
No one here sends traffic to my personal site and i dont ask them to.

No one was charged with prostitution nor was it ever referred to by the cops, that is not why they raided my home business.
They violated my rights and nothing more. So before you speak and make claims remember your involvement in my websites. Not only did you create my site, but you acted in my videos. So why did you ??? if you thought this to be true.
I dont agree with vanilla porn either, but i dont accuse well known webmasters with crimes of pimping and pandering. You pay for models and shoot content, then live off the income that you make selling it. I would say that it is the same thing.

[webwoman]

There is no sex involved at all ..

[Beaver Bob]

lol if i did cash4fetish it would look and work a lot better than it does now. I did not create your site.

to the point of the thread i was simply stating that I agreed with what Greenguy said.

[webwoman]

there was no prostitution charge or arrest. Why do some of you here keep implying that. I'm amazed at the ignorance of people who have no understanding of how the bdsm community helps each other with donations so that we can keep our businesses and studios open. We are always willing to help others in the fetish lifestyle or not. I live the lifestyle and no one gets that..Why???
I guess i misjudged this adult fourm. I see that you sponser all kinds of fetish and mistress sites and earn money off them ..they are exact to mine ..are you saying that they dont take donations .Yes all Mistresses have people who donate to keep her sites and dungeon open.

[GonZo]

I want to make it clear.

I was sincere in the advice I was giving you. And I hope you have a first Amendment lawyer. If they rolled up a forensic van then rest assured there is a foresic data recovery tech or examiner already acquring the hard drives of your comptuer.

Every website that youve visted at least in the last 30 days will be found.

Depending on your email program every email that youve sent or been sent will be found.

In short whatever you were actually doing there [and I dont care] and if you kept a record on your computer...it will be brought to light. And thats just on your computer.

I dont care that you may or may not have been a hooker in the eyes of the law. [I do understand the community.]

I dont care that your sites fall into that extreme genere. Even though I do agree that they bring a lot of unwanted attention to this business its your 1st Amendment right to have them.

I dont care that your use of the Epassporte was also questionable which is going to make it harder in the long run for all merchants to use one...thats between you and Epassporte.

If you were seeking advice I will amend what I told you you might want to get 2 good lawyers. One of them better be a Free Speech or 1st Amendment lawyer and the other one needs to understand this industry and technology pretty well.

You've managed to come up on the local radar and if they have confiscated all of your gear then you can rest assured that they are coming after you with a crusade like youve never seen before. And based on the points Ive made above youve got a rough road to travel.

If you came here looking for any other assistance ... I find it curious. As a former board owner Ive seen a lot of people call for help over the years but have never participated in the community that they are asking help from. Im sure with your involvement in the B&D community you can appreciate why these members find it curious to say the least.

Nonetheless you have a long and rough road to travel in the legal world if you are as pristine as you say. Your time might be better served working with lawyers and the local B&D community.

If the courts clear your name....might I also suggest reading some of these board with a little more detail. Maybe attend a few industry shows and participate in the ethics seminar.

I do care that you have an affiliate program that solicits traffic from other webmasters yet you 'shave" the donations from the aforementioned traffic.

That certainly doesnt look very well in the eyes of the webmaster community.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

I stand with Tommy and Aliex. I think publicity like this hurts our industry.

I agree with you as well but its still her 1st Amendment right to keep them. Theres no doubt that the extreme sites sell.

Its my guess that in the long run with the current administration they are also going to cost ----- cost to defend the right to have them.

Those site owners are the equivalent of the industry's "canary in a coalmine".

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by GonZo

Those site owners are the equivalent of the industry's "canary in a coalmine".

Good analogy, but it brings up a point. Is it bad for our industry that sites like this exist because it brings attention to all of us, or is it a good thing for those of us that don't do extreme sites, because it focuses the attention elsewhere?

I'm dying to hear the next point about Beaver Bob though because it looks like some real drama brewing there. Did he design the site or not? And if not, why is he being falsely accused in a public forum of being involved with a company that is under criminal investigation?

[Beaver Bob]

I did lend her a hand with 2 of her pages on cash4fetish. I myself did not design the site, and I had no other involvement whatsoever with the design, programming, or production of ANY of her websites other than a helping hand on 2 pages of her affiliate program.

To be honest, some of that stuff is just too far out there for me

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Beaver Bob

I did lend her a hand with 2 of her pages on cash4fetish. I myself did not design the site, and I had no other involvement whatsoever with the design, programming, or production of ANY of her websites other than a helping hand on 2 pages of her affiliate program.

2 pages for 10K...damn can I come work for you?

[Hammer]

So now it sounds like the company Beaver Bob works for did indeed do the work, but he himself did not do all of it, although he did apparently just slam the work in his previous post, which doesn't makes sense. I'm guessing that his company would not be happy about an employee dissing their work.

"lol if i did cash4fetish it would look and work a lot better than it does now."

[RawAlex]

Gonzo, while agree with on most of your points taken on an individual case basis, the reality is a "whole ball of wax". In this ball of wax is a girl doing extreme bondage, soliciting for clients (for acts that most straight people would feel are at least somewhat sexual in nature, hence the revealing constumes, nudity, and the like), and a webmaster program that sends traffic into the mix from porn sites.

Nothing can be taken without context, and the context says "this is a porn site where the girl solicites for clients at $300 an hour, and then requires they are donations not fees". If this was above board, she would take the $300 as a hourly rate and not play games. By playing the old hooker game "it's not a price for sex, it's a donation to show appreciation for me", she puts herself in the same game.

Her traffic comes from porn. She acts like a hooker. She operates a "sexual" business receiving clients in a residential neighborhood. When she gets caught, she doesn't run to the S&M people for support, but tries to claim "porn webmaster" and tries to get the support of our industry.

Except for a webmaster program that cuts the webmasters out of the most profitable part of the business (the donations) she has little or nothing to do with our industry.

Oh yeah, while canaries are good, enough dead canaries can really stink a place up... especially when you didn't put them there to start with.

Alex

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by webwoman

I dont agree with vanilla porn either, but i dont accuse well known webmasters with crimes of pimping and pandering. You pay for models and shoot content, then live off the income that you make selling it. I would say that it is the same thing.

Sorry, but it is a well estalished legal fact that there is a large difference in this area. Please see all the legal cases that happened in the 70's regarding porn films (most people don't realize how many people got arrested for making relatively tame porn).

There is a difference, you know it, and you are just attmepting to hide behind a none too clever reading of the rules.

Alex

[Beaver Bob]

Originally Posted by Hammer

So now it sounds like the company Beaver Bob works for did indeed do the work, but he himself did not do all of it, although he did apparently just slam the work in his previous post, which doesn't makes sense. I'm guessing that his company would not be happy about an employee dissing their work.

"lol if i did cash4fetish it would look and work a lot better than it does now."

well its not really that cut and dry. yes, an associate of mine did some web design work for her, I had no involvement in any of it besides the 2 pages I mentioned which was to help him out. I'm not really an employee, and the guy lives downstairs from me and knows I think that site sucks and i dont even think he did that one.. lol so its no big deal. and to be honest i'm not really sure who did what where, nor do I care, nor is it realy even the point of this thread. i just know I didn't!

[Hammer]

You may want to look up the word 'employee' in the dictionary Bob, because if you were 'employed' by that company to do any of the work -- whether you received benefits and they took out your taxes and you punched in on a clock or you worked for them strictly on a freelance basis -- you were employed by them. The point is not whether or not you consider yourself an employee, the point is that you slammed their work and if I ran that company, I'd be more than a little upset by it.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Webwoman

You pay for models and shoot content, then live off the income that you make selling it. I would say that it is the same thing.

Fortunately for us pornographers, the law doesn't see it that way.

[Beaver Bob]

I'll find out soon enough I dont think he'll be too upset tho.