Bizarre site of the day

[RawAlex]

Oh, I want to add this: I am not your personal stalker, when you post on a public board, people read your posts and will comment on them. Get use to it, I am sure with all your experience on the web you understand how a public chat board works.

Alex

[furrygirl]

You say that challenging stupid (government and Visa) restrictions on consensual adult sexuality ruins the adult industry, I say that without doing so, there would be no adult industry.

We're just going to have to let history decide on this one. So far, history is on my side.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Oh, I want to add this: I am not your personal stalker, when you post on a public board, people read your posts and will comment on them. Get use to it, I am sure with all your experience on the web you understand how a public chat board works.

If you and I are arguing about something on one thread, I consider it thread-stalking to come into another thread I'm participating in and trying to stir shit with me for no reason other than that we're arguing elsewhere. I don't follow you around this board and try to argue with unrelated posts you make in other threads, so please don't start doing that to me.

Are you just worried that I'll forget about you or something? Gee, and here I thought I was a clueless loser who wasn't worthy of your attention.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Furrygirl, have you considered that, maybe, just maybe, your choices are self defeating?

Trixie's boyfriend giving up billing rather than removing a link seems to be a very "high moral stand / low business sense" move. Perhaps he feels he was "making a point", but that point and $3 will get you a good coffee at Starbucks.

CCBill (and other adult sex sites processors and merchant account providers) are held to very tight standards by Visa and Mastercard. There are rules, and the rules are enforced. The rules enforced by CCBill and other are arbitrary because the rules forced on them are arbitrary as well.

In each and every one of the cases you listed here, a single link could have been removed and things would have been better. In each case, a bad business decision appears to have been made in order to "protect a cause", but in reality income was lost, and that loss of income could cut down the amount of money available to keep websites online to promote awareness of those causes or situations.

Adult porn sites should not link to sex information for minors, it shouldn't link to anything to do with pedophilia, and it shouldn't link to anything to do with rape. Visa and Mastercard have made it clear to CCBill and others that all of those are unacceptable as part of the rules for retaining their processing. It isn't CCBill randomly picking on certain causes or whatever. They are applying arbitrary rules imposed on them.

You are free to speak about whatever you want. You are free to run an adult website. There are rules regarding running an adult website and being able to accept credit cards. Unless you end up in a position in your life to change those rules (say like taking a lead position in Visa's policy department), you have to work with them, or work without income.

As FG pointed out, we didn't give up our billing when CCBill told us we had to take down the link to Margaret Cho's blog. We finally asked to speak to someone who could actually look at the site and see that it was a mistake.

From what I understand, CCbill blacklists sites by doing keyword searches for the "bad" words, and in so doing blacklists non-porn sites with political commentary where the bad words are used in a context that's not PROMOTING activities like CP, bestiality, etc. but is merely discussing them. I know -- it's CRAZY! Why would we link to a free site with absolutely no possibility of making a sale? We are SUCH bad business-people!

Some of us have actual content on our site. You know, content that we wrote ourselves, shot ourselves, etc. Content that we're invested in politically and personally as well as financially. Content that is not ALL porn. Content that makes people bookmark our sites. Content that engenders loyalty and establishes trust with surfers. Content that sets us apart from other sites. Content that gets published in books and magazines. SO STUPID OF US!!

I know it's just MIND BOGGLING to some people in this industry to actually offer more to surfers than some bought content of strangers (or promo content laden with so many ads you can't find the photos) with the occasional misogynistic remarks and maybe some really fantastic organizational methods with everything broken down into handy (but ultimately deceptive and random) categories like MILF porn and Amateur Porn. And you think people with who offer surfers more than ads and FREE PORN! FREE PORN! are the ones bringing down the industry by "rocking the boat"!!

I totally agree that running sites like yours would be easier and more efficient business-wise than anything I have ever done. Running personality-driven sites requires . . . you know . . . PERSONALITY. No wonder so few people in the industry take this route!!

What you're suggesting (simply removing offensive words and links without pointing out the context) is a bad business idea for some of us who actually WRITE about rape, bestiality, and the issues and laws affecting the porn industry, etc. from a political, newsworthy standpoint. If CCBill bans sites based on the use of blacklisted words without looking at context at all, that means none of us can write on our sites about the laws that affect our industry . . . that's a pretty fucked up situation, no?

Essentially what you're pushing for is for porn sites to be devoid of EVERYTHING except porn. I think that's a bad business move . . . unless of course you have no imagination, no life, no social conscience, and no personal involvement with your business at all.

More power to you if you like seeing the internet littered with shallow, repetitive, cookie-cutter porn sites, but don't act like the rest of us are simply bad businesspeople for wanting to do something different with a little more depth and like to link to sites that are more substantive than a long-ass list of tgp after tgp after linkdump after linklist.

It may seem self-defeating to you that some of us would like people to realize that it's healthy for people to have sex or masturbate when a woman is menstruating, but forget about the fact that calling menstruating women obscene is discriminatory and rooted in some very fucked-up ignorance. Forget about all of that and look at it from a business standpoint . . . why should I only be able to shoot content and do shows when I'm NOT menstruating? That's very inefficient, business-wise. You call it "rocking the boat" but you're not the one being told your totally natural pussy fluids are obscene. Even old Dr. Ruth was on tv in the eighties talking about how natural and nice and totally healthy it is to have intercourse when a woman is having her period. I don't expect you to give a shit, but don't expect us to appreciate your fantastic business advice or to respect billing company's "high standards" which are nonsensical, discriminatory, and allow for guys to piss and cum all over people's faces, to double penetrate people's assholes, to rape people when they're sleeping . . . but NOT to show a women menstruating. Those aren't "high standards". It's just plain bullshit.

[RawAlex]

What you see as a stupid restriction is what others would consider an acceptible tradeoff for peace with the government and with the credit card companies. The implication is that if you push on them, they will push back HARDER, and in the end, your little stand to wave your used tampons in the air could end up costing other people a livelihood when the credit card companies decide that they don't want to touch porn at all, or if they cut off all "extreme" porn of any sort from the business profiles.

History isn't on your side, I think you have not read enough of it. The government side is like the tide, coming up and going down, and yes, in the end, we usually end up with more liberty rather than less.

However, the CC side is entirely different. It has gone exactly one directly, LESS AND LESS SITES ALLOWED TO PROCESS. Visa and Mastercard are not obliged to process adult, and they are fairly restrictive now (compared to before you were legally allowed to view this stuff). 8 or 9 years ago, you could get processing for a signup page without even having a website. Now they want assurances, the sites have to be reviewed, and fees paid. All the pushing in the world has just encouraged these companies to stop processing for huge parts of the adult business.

You tweak their noses, and they will tweak the whole industry back. I don't think you have a clear understanding of all the forces in play here.

You have the right to free speech, but please, don't fuck up other people's business just to make a point.

Alex

PS: I happen to look at all new posts. You made a post here that was a natural extension of other discussions, so I answered in place. Again, chat board 101.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

What you see as a stupid restriction is what others would consider an acceptible tradeoff for peace with the government and with the credit card companies. The implication is that if you push on them, they will push back HARDER, and in the end, your little stand to wave your used tampons in the air could end up costing other people a livelihood when the credit card companies decide that they don't want to touch porn at all, or if they cut off all "extreme" porn of any sort from the business profiles.

Would those other people who think it's an acceptable tradeoff be mostly men? Huh . . . funny coincidence!

MENSTRUATION IS NOT EXTREME. This is a very simple concept. If you cannot grasp it or respect it, forgive me if I don't give a flying fuck about protecting your livelihood. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to "destroy" anyone in this industry no matter how boring or offensive I found their sites, but I'm not going to try to MIMIC those sites because you think it would be safer for you and your cronies.

I understand the concept of choosing your battles which is why I've put my menstruation fetish site on the back burner, but that doesn't mean I support totally submitting to the censors and politicians who use our industry to gain political leverage. You sound like one of those jews in Nazi Germany who watched his neighbors being carted off and thought that if he kept quiet the whole thing would blow over and his happy little life wouldn't be disrupted. Just go along with them! Don't fight it, that will only make them more mad!! We're going to camp but it will all be over soon!!

[Toni KatVixen]

I admire women like Furry-Girl & Trixie. They are the kind of women that showed me that you could be a feminist and be in porn AND have ethics.

I'm not into the menstrating sites cuz I don't like blood, my choice. But we are in porn, we help to push the ideas of sexuality, like it or not.

Porn needs more women like them to shake the boat. I'm sick and tired of porn being dicated by just the male side.....the sick part of them....vomiting, raping....all the crap that demeans us. Trixie & Furry-girl are pushing the limits for HEATHLY NEEDED conversation about women's bodies.

If we didn't have women to "shake the boat", then we wouldn't have the right to vote, the right to conception or the right to do with our bodies as we please. If you had your way on not "shaking" the boat, then the I still wouldn't be able to own property. If people didn't have the guts to shake the boat then we would still have slavery.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by KatVixen

I admire women like Furry-Girl & Trixie. They are the kind of women that showed me that you could be a feminist and be in porn AND have ethics.

I'm not into the menstrating sites cuz I don't like blood, my choice. But we are in porn, we help to push the ideas of sexuality, like it or not.

Porn needs more women like them to shake the boat. I'm sick and tired of porn being dicated by just the male side.....the sick part of them....vomiting, raping....all the crap that demeans us. Trixie & Furry-girl are pushing the limits for HEATHLY NEEDED conversation about women's bodies.

If we didn't have women to "shake the boat", then we wouldn't have the right to vote, the right to conception or the right to do with our bodies as we please. If you had your way on not "shaking" the boat, then the I still wouldn't be able to own property. If people didn't have the guts to shake the boat then we would still have slavery.

Awww -- thank you! Good points too, and I stand in mutual admiration of your feminism which I noted years back in your posts on other boards.

After being so argumentative, I should let people know that I haven't griped to CCBill about the no-menstruation policy, and I don't "blame" them for trying to keep the CC companies happy -- on the contrary, I appreciate it and the job they do for us. I realize that with issues like menstruation there are bigger forces at play. I also realize that the majority of sites they deal with have business models that are different from our own so their standard operating procedure on stuff like banned words appearing on sites doesn't often have to allow for context since on most sites PORN (and making fast sales! and pushing more porn!) is the only context.

I don't expect CCBill to piss off Visa so a little entity like myself who makes them very little money can wave her red flag. But I do expect to be able to call bullshit on the whole thing in a public way that brings a little necessary contemplation and discussion to the issues at hand. I realize RawAlex isn't the only one who thinks what he's written here, so I hope he understands that my ire is generally directed to a bunch of people's attitudes and not his alone.

And now I must do some important business: sit on the couch and watch old Star Trek Next Gen episodes.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Would those other people who think it's an acceptable tradeoff be mostly men? Huh . . . funny coincidence!

I understand where you are coming from now. When the chip falls off your shoulder, call me back.

Alex

[Toni KatVixen]

I'm disappointed, you usual have much better comments, next thing you'll be saying is "oh, she is just bitchy cuz ragging"?

[RawAlex]

Kat, there is absolutely nothing left to add.

[furrygirl]

Thanks for your input, KatVixen! On the topic of feminist porn, there was a good quote in the latest BUST Magazine:

"I'll always prefer to play [in bands] with women and hang out with women, and I'll always be a feminist. But let me tell you something: Gloria Steinem never helped me out; Larry Flynt did." -- Courtney Love in Spin.

I don't like to be such a reductionist, (although lordy knows no one comprehends my long-ass posts anyhow), but it is *impossible* to not note that every time the period discussion comes around, it breaks down into men versus women. One side is disgusted, one side is incensed that they're being told they're disgusting. It's not a matter of forcing anyone to jerk off thinking about tampons, it's a matter of respect for women and their bodies. You know, *women and their bodies*, those "things" that almost everyone here derives their income from.

It's nice to hear from the perspective of a woman who doesn't make period porn, since I suppose Trixie and I are "bias" when it comes to supporting such dangerous extremist revolutions as menstruating.

[juggernaut]

Maybe CCBill is working off that old guy saying
"If something bleeds for 5 days and don't die, don't trust it"

Come on people this was supposed to be a funny post. In the words of RK. "Can't we all just get along?"

[RawAlex]

See? now there is something to add

Furrygirl, you really truly don't get it, do you? It isn't about MY opinion (and my opinion is menstruation is natural, but like peeing and shitting, it isn't porn, just a body function that isn't really sexy... ) it is about how that type of site would hold up to Visa rules and community standards. Not the community you live in, but perhaps the one you host in or the one your credit cards are processed in, or who knows where else, depending on how the DoJ would look at it.

Me taking a dump would be Man and his body. Big deal. It ain't sexy (and I ain't sexy either!)

It is only men versus women because someone decided to make it that, and guess what, it wasn't me. Scan the thread... go see who made it a man versus woman thing, then direct your sarcasm back at them (if you care to be sarcastic to your good friend and mentor Trixie).

I'm done with this thread.

Alex

[Chop Smith]

Alex, you are not going to try to make a living from selling pictures of you taking a dump?

Trixie is a cute little thing. It is ashame that we only hear from her when blood is mentioned. I also understand that she is smart. However, the sheer mention of a jew in Nazi Germany trying to save their ass has very little to do with yeast infection and it is stupid of her to bring it up.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

See? now there is something to add

Furrygirl, you really truly don't get it, do you? It isn't about MY opinion (and my opinion is menstruation is natural, but like peeing and shitting, it isn't porn, just a body function that isn't really sexy... ) it is about how that type of site would hold up to Visa rules and community standards. Not the community you live in, but perhaps the one you host in or the one your credit cards are processed in, or who knows where else, depending on how the DoJ would look at it.

Me taking a dump would be Man and his body. Big deal. It ain't sexy (and I ain't sexy either!)

It is only men versus women because someone decided to make it that, and guess what, it wasn't me. Scan the thread... go see who made it a man versus woman thing, then direct your sarcasm back at them (if you care to be sarcastic to your good friend and mentor Trixie).

I'm done with this thread.

Alex

It's not a man vs. woman thing -- there are a number of men (even on webmaster boards!) who have earned their red wings, who think sex during menstruation is normal and fine and not a threat to the industry, etc. and there are plenty of women who agree with you, Alex, and think their menses are nasty and gross. My point earlier that you glommed onto is simply that the majority of men in this industry would see capitulating to the regs regarding menstruation as "an acceptable tradeoff" because they have no personal investment in it. It's a fact, and I don't expect guys to champion this issue.

Menstrual fluid and piss and shit are all really very distinct things. I'm sorry for you that you equate menstruation with your daily bowel movements -- it's really not the same thing at all or even comparable. Are you really saying fucking a girl in her pussy while she's menstruating is the same as fucking a girl up the ass while she's taking a shit? Stupid. Really stupid. It may come as a shock to you, but most people lay down a towel and fuck while the chick is on the rag, but most people do not integrate scat into sex. Doctors even tell women with menstrual cramps that orgasm may help relieve them.

What comes out of my pussy is not the same as what comes out of your ass. Sorry to disappoint you and complicate your simpleminded world view.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Alex, you are not going to try to make a living from selling pictures of you taking a dump?

Trixie is a cute little thing. It is ashame that we only hear from her when blood is mentioned. I also understand that she is smart. However, the sheer mention of a jew in Nazi Germany trying to save their ass has very little to do with yeast infection and it is stupid of her to bring it up.

No, it doesn't have anything to do with yeast infections -- looks like your cute little Mississippi IQ prevented you from understanding the analogy. Thanks for trying anyway.

It's true, I rarely pop up unless something comes up where I hope I can lend a unique perspective or when my name is specifically mentioned. There are plenty of smart people with more experience than I on this board who have more relevant things to say than I do. At this point I don't get a lot out of the boards since I don't run the same kinds of sites as most people here and my affiliate program is rather neglected so I don't have a lot to offer, either. But basically I just hate reading retarded shit and being tempted to post retarded shit in response and would rather spend time talking to my members than sitting around on the boards.

Sorry for taking Emma's fun yeast thread off track . . .

[RawAlex]

Trixie, once again, you totally utterly miss the point.

It isn't me. I got my red wings ages ago, I don't have anything against it (most girls I know are not interested, as they feel that they are dirty during that time and don't want to participate). I dont' really care one way or the other about scat or watersports or whatever. If that is what turns people on, more power to them, I guess, providing they don't hurt themselves and become a burden to society.

There is a huge difference between my personal opinion and what is acceptable business wise in order to keep partners like Visa and Mastercard in the game and to keep agencies like DoJ out of your house. For them, what comes out that isn't directly involved in sex ain't good, at least based on what I have read and been told so far.

There is a huge difference between business choices and personal choices. Perhaps your work as a camgirl has blurred that line until you can't see it.

Alex

Edit: now I am truly done. Sorry, but I cannot let someone insult me and put words in my mouth.

[Toni KatVixen]

Alex, you are good guy with an open mind & I don't believe you meant to cause this uproar.

Yes, there are the decisions you make for your business has "limits" in the business community, if you allow them. It is your PERSONAL decision to play by the rules & not rock the boat, it is their PERSONAL decision to push the rules and call the business limits hypercritical, because they are.

The major point is YOUR way of business is NOT the only way to do business.

[emmanuelle]

it is *impossible* to not note that every time the period discussion comes around, it breaks down into men versus women. One side is disgusted, one side is incensed that they're being told they're disgusting. It's not a matter of forcing anyone to jerk off thinking about tampons, it's a matter of respect for women and their bodies. You know, *women and their bodies*, those "things" that almost everyone here derives their income from.

People tend to fear what they don't understand.

No, it doesn't have anything to do with yeast infections -- looks like your cute little Mississippi IQ prevented you from understanding the analogy. Thanks for trying anyway.

Come on Trix, you can do better than this, that was uncalled for, although just as wrong as

Trixie is a cute little thing.

so I do understand the impulse.



In my experience, Ccbill initially reviews sites with a bot, picking up hot keywords. They are relatively easy to work with, it only takes a bit of effort to open a discussion to point out context as Trixie & Tucker did.

(Trix- Kass & I are looking forward to seeing you in Vegas)

[Kenny B!]

Wow I have a second thing that isn't intelligent to add to this thread… I am Furrygirls official stalker not Alex!

My 2.3 canadian cents:-)

[Chop Smith]

I am perfectly content with my cute little Mississippi IQ. Lucky me for being an over achiever.

I do think Trixie is a little cute thing. Is there something wrong with saying that one finds another to be attractive. Or is that something similar to the "buddy/friend" deal?

In 1962, I was in a building that got tear gassed by US Marshals. It scared the shit out of me and I considered painting my face black to save my ass. While this is a true statement it is offensive and has no value in this or any other discussion on this board. Either does the jewish statement made by Trixie.

BTW, I know every one here does not celebrate Thanksgiving but I am thankful that I live in a society where folks can speak their opinion, agree or disagree and still exist with each other.

[Cleo]

I do hate getting hair stuck between my teeth

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Or is that something similar to the "buddy/friend" deal?

hehe- Do we need to teach you the buddy lesson again?

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by Cleo

I do hate getting hair stuck between my teeth

Now ain't that a bitch but I do have a problem with eating high to stay dry?