New free site format (version 1.5)

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CrazySy

...Just my 2 cents

I'll add my 2¢ in with CrazySy's, maybe we'll have enough for a Starbuck's after awhile.

Increasing diversity is probably a good goal, but don't let the tail be wagging the dog.

I optimize for sales first and SE second.

[Cleo]

Most of my sales come from the index page followed by the main page.

Enough said.

[Useless]

OBAMA '08 It's Time for Change (or something like that)

Most free site builders put ZERO effort in to SEO or effective sales text on any of their pages, so I'm not sure why they'd fight against losing one worthless page of a free site that isn't going to produce sales any better than, or even as good as, a single TGP gallery. The big difference being that TGPs have more traffic. I think people are clinging to a dead concept.

Those of you who have the ability to track sales per page, have you considered why your numbers are the way they are? Do you know that it's because we are going out of our way to make the content difficult to get to, or could it be merely the fact that you've been lucky enough to place a good ad block on the first page that the surfer sees (which you could still do with a different format)?

I hope this thread/debate/argument goes on for awhile. I love it.

[plateman]

it's funny, free site builders and harden LL owners are gonna be the first ones to go back to doing what they did before, cause they will not accept change or invent a different model

[ponygirl]

Well, I'm all for trying something new, more for sales than SE purposes, but whatever works. UW quoted DD a bit back, with 'sales are created by content'. While this seems at odds with most people saying their sales come from the index and main pages, I don't think so.

When you think about it, I'm sure most surfers have seen enough tours to know the general idea now. A lot of new tours all have great quality video samples, big huge pics, 3 or 4 pages etc. If I knew that, I might be inclined to click through to a tour as fast as I can if the first page I saw of the freesite was kinda crappy looking. Maybe that's why I've also been told from many people that ugly freesites sell

anyway, just a thought. I don't know if it would work out or not, but I'd give it a shot.

I really like Simon's idea of 4 links out, too

[spacemanspiff]

Those of you who have the ability to track sales per page, have you considered why your numbers are the way they are? Do you know that it's because we are going out of our way to make the content difficult to get to, or could it be merely the fact that you've been lucky enough to place a good ad block on the first page that the surfer sees (which you could still do with a different format)?

Is it possible that the sales are just coming from the first page the surfer gets to when they click on the link to your freesite, regardless of how good the ads are? Is it possible that it's just a numbers game? I've always thought that's why a lot of FS builders made that claim. I haven't built many freesites so I just don't know.

As for my position on accepting those types of sites, I'll accept pretty much anything I think the surfers would like. And yes, different is good.

I'll even go a step further. If you want to do some testing, how about this. Build a traditional freesite and a 1.5 freesite and submit them both at the same time, and see which sells better. Either pick similar content and submit both sites to the same category, or pick content that can fit into multiple categories. Just hit me up first so I'll know what's going on.

[plateman]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

Well, I'm all for trying something new, more for sales than SE purposes, but whatever works. UW quoted DD a bit back, with 'sales are created by content'. While this seems at odds with most people saying their sales come from the index and main pages, I don't think so.

When you think about it, I'm sure most surfers have seen enough tours to know the general idea now. A lot of new tours all have great quality video samples, big huge pics, 3 or 4 pages etc. If I knew that, I might be inclined to click through to a tour as fast as I can if the first page I saw of the freesite was kinda crappy looking. Maybe that's why I've also been told from many people that ugly freesites sell

anyway, just a thought. I don't know if it would work out or not, but I'd give it a shot.

I really like Simon's idea of 4 links out, too

the reason sales came from the index and main was that most good free site submitters could get the surfers to click before they see the content, and most newer tours had enough content to get sales from the tours

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by plateman

the reason sales came from the index and main was that most good free site submitters could get the surfers to click before they see the content, and most newer tours had enough content to get sales from the tours

yes, I believe that too. That's why I always put more effort into those pages, which would naturally result in more sales from them (I keep hoping, anyway )

[LD]

Originally Posted by plateman

the reason sales came from the index and main was that most good free site submitters could get the surfers to click before they see the content, and most newer tours had enough content to get sales from the tours

Hey, I've got an idea...let's lose the galleries completely!

fs 2.0 baby!

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by kit

...I offer one simple rule for discussion:
We accept free sites without warning page if you will add ICRA or RTA meta tags to your site HTML code....[/url]

Kit - you are such a fucking moron that it baffles my mind how you got to where you are now (well, except that you copied an established format, but that's another story)

Follow me for 2 seconds: the RTA label is part of ASACP - we all know this. The ASACP has a list of what they call "industry best practices":
http://www.asacp.org/page.php?content=best_practices
It's a list of things that we, as adult website owners, should follow. One of those things, oddly enough, IS TO HAVE A FUCKING WARNING PAGE. The RTA label is supposed to go on your warning page!

I haven't even read the rest of this thread yet, but I will also say that, while I find my ego being inflated as I type, anyone that is moronic enough to re-invent the LinkList/FreeSite concept without discussing it on this board does not belong in the business.

Gimme 15 & I'll shoot down the rest of your ideas

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by kit

This is not a big secret, traffic leave Link Sites last years, especially after Google algo sfiting last 12 motnhs.

If you were a Free Site submitter you'd have been banned for Grammar & Spelling Errors If you look at all the major Link Lists over the last 5+ years, it's almost all ebbs & flows. Sometimes we're high, sometimes we're low. It's always been like this & I assume that it always will. I say "assume" because, like everyone else reading this thread, I don't know what Google's really doing. I just base what I assume on what's happened in the past. My bet is that you have never had the bottom fall out. You've never lost 96.67% of his search engine traffic. My suggestion to you is to ride it out. Stop assuming that it's everyone else's site & that everyone else has to change to better you.

Originally Posted by kit

...Free sites is a bad quality site in therms of Google because:
1) They never updates.
2) Text content duplicates many times and equal texts of hundreds other free sites.
3) They don't have new incoming links after initial listing in Link Sites....

1 - Your idea doesn't have pages that update either.
2 - Your idea will still have mirror sites with different recips.
3 - Your idea does not have new incoming links either.

Originally Posted by kit

...Benefits:
1) There is no reason to keep warning page if you add special meta tags to HTML code.
2) Therefore free site layout become more usefull for surfing. Content can be accessed by two clicks instead 3 clicks before.
3) Decrease free sites mirroring...

1 - I've shot that down already.
2 - why not remove the main page & just link to the galleries? OH wait.....
3 - See 2 above.

Originally Posted by kit

....PS. Read initial discussion on Master-X here (russian text)

Oh Yeah! Invite a group of English speaking webmasters to jump into a discussion on a foreign language board. Another BRILLIANT fucking idea

(my spell-checker went off 5 times - 4 times I had to hit "ignore")

[Sergeyka]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Kit - you are such a fucking moron that it baffles my mind how you got to where you are now (well, except that you copied an established format, but that's another story)

Follow me for 2 seconds: the RTA label is part of ASACP - we all know this. The ASACP has a list of what they call "industry best practices":
http://www.asacp.org/page.php?content=best_practices
It's a list of things that we, as adult website owners, should follow. One of those things, oddly enough, IS TO HAVE A FUCKING WARNING PAGE. The RTA label is supposed to go on your warning page!

I haven't even read the rest of this thread yet, but I will also say that, while I find my ego being inflated as I type, anyone that is moronic enough to re-invent the LinkList/FreeSite concept without discussing it on this board does not belong in the business.

Gimme 15 & I'll shoot down the rest of your ideas

TGP gallery without warning page |badidea|
This format
http://thepurelinks.com/tmp/f2.gif

without mirrors and submit in 30-50 LL's

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

Interesting. But will everyone else accept fs 1.5?...

Everyone? No. But I'm also betting that ZERO Link List owners that frequent this board will accept them either.

Originally Posted by Licker4U

All this does is knock out one whole page of ads and possible sales....

That's always been one of the selling points of building Free Sites.

Originally Posted by TekAngel

I don't understand how is this going to "Decrease free sites mirroring"...

It doesn't. Assuming that everyone changed, you'd still have the same number of mirrors, but now it's main page mirrors instead of warning page mirrors.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...This is a great idea and a great discussion. I *think* even himself may have said that the free site has needed to be revamped for quite some time.

I was thinking more along the lines of 3 & 4 gallery Free Sites (and if my mind was normal, I'd have suggested that a year ago)

Originally Posted by Preacher

I like the idea of streamlining freesite navigation, especially from a linklists perception...

Have you surfed your Free Sites lately?

Originally Posted by ponygirl

...I like the idea of having to put the tags in there...

That's the ONLY good idea Kit has.

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I like it. I like it a lot!
When I first started building free sites (way back when, not in the last few years) it wasn't so regimented and they all didn't look the same. Any ideas that will allow a little more creativity are fine by me, and might even convince me to build fs's again.
Whether I do or not I'll definitely list free sites that don't fit the standard warning-main-gallery1-gallery2 grind. I'm listing some galleries now because the free site model is boring to me, and I would imagine it's boring to surfers as well.
I believe it is time for some free-thinking, and some changes to the rigid rules so many LL's live by.
Shit, if somebody was to send me a site made up of 3 galleries with no warning page I'd list it.

How does going from warning-main-gallery1-gallery2 to main-gallery1-gallery2-gallery3 allow for more creativity? If anything, it's a decrease in creativity, as you are removing a page that is designed very differently from the other 3 & adding another copy of the gallery template.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...Most free site builders put ZERO effort in to SEO or effective sales text on any of their pages...

WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE! After reading that & then re-reading Kit's post, I have a new way of thinking! Kit's not worried about his SE traffic. He's worried about YOURS! Think about it. He's not changing the structure of his Link List, he's asking you to change so that you get more hits from Google! Well fuck me! Kit deserves a metal or some other prestigious award. Putting all Free Site builders ahead of himself, tracking the listings of Free Sites in Google for years & years & years & coming up with this fantastic concept! I think everyone should bow down & kiss the ground that Kit walks on! B-R-A-V-O!

(excuse me while I throw up)

Back to Useless's statement - Kit thinks that his plan will benefit Free Site listings in Google. There is no other way to look at this, as he says "google" or "SE" 5 times in his 1st 7 sentences. And what you put up there about "ZERO effort" is a big part of the problem. People get out what they put in & SE's are no different. If you have all your Free Sites on a domain that are not linked to a hub on the index page, you either have no concern about SE traffic (which is fine) or your not educated enough on SE methods to be worried about it. I use this as one example of MANY things that webmasters can do to better their sites in SE's. Removing one page & adding another to a small area of your network is not going to increase or decrease your SE listings.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

TGP gallery without warning page |badidea|
This format
http://thepurelinks.com/tmp/f2.gif

without mirrors and submit in 30-50 LL's

So you want to put up to 50 recip links on that page?

[Sergeyka]

Example
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/

Free site add in Russian LLs, no mirrors unique text content

[Sergeyka]

Originally Posted by Greenie

So you want to put up to 50 recip links on that page?

Certainly!
And no mirrors!

Otherwise it is senseless

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

If you have separate ad campaigns running on your index and main pages than you have on your gallery pages, which is the only way I can think of to know which pages create the sales, then go ahead and show us.

Huh? I don't need seperate ad campaigns to know which pages generate sales. Almost every sponsor I promote gives the referring URL when a sale is made. TCG shows I had 4 sales from index pages and one from a main page. No ad campaign needed:

http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/babe/fuck-and-squirt/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/clean/squirting-teen/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/babes/her-pussy-squirts/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/clean/her-pussy-squirts/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/babe/s...gasm/main.html 1 0 0

From checking a few months ago I know that about 90% of my sales come from the index page so naturally I don't want to lose it.

When sponsors let me set up ad campaigns I use that for my referral links on my link lists so I'll know that a sale came from the link list.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Example
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/

Free site add in Russian LLs, no mirrors unique text content

There's 36 recip links on there - you have just eliminated ONE page from the internet

What happens if I have 72 Link Lists on my submit list? 2 mirrors instead of 4?

If I made 2 warning pages with 18 recips (very common) what makes you think that Google would even notice? Most of the page will look very different, as 18 recips take up a lot of space/coding on a page.

And why do you assume that Free Site builders are not smart enough to change around the coding on "mirror" pages so that the coding doesn't look exactly the same?

I can sit here all day & shoot down this idea.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

Huh? I don't need seperate ad campaigns to know which pages generate sales. Almost every sponsor I promote gives the referring URL when a sale is made. TCG shows I had 4 sales from index pages and one from a main page. No ad campaign needed:

http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/babe/fuck-and-squirt/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/clean/squirting-teen/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/babes/her-pussy-squirts/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/clean/her-pussy-squirts/ 1 0 0
http://www.best-wet-pussy.com/babe/s...gasm/main.html 1 0 0

From checking a few months ago I know that about 90% of my sales come from the index page.

Actually, that's not true. Many of those referrers are due to the surfer clicking through, possibly even accidentally, to the tour from the index of a free site and getting cookied and/or starting a tracking session. That doesn't mean they were sold. They probably returned instantly to your free site, enjoyed your galleries, and then clicked back to the tour to check it out more thoroughly.

Your server stats will also tell you that your index pages get a lot more traffic than any other page of a free site. That's because a lot of surfers hit a free site, say, "what the hell is this slop?" and go somewhere else. Reading stats and understanding what you are reading are two different things. It's far more complicated than what people like to think.

[Sergeyka]

It is necessary to believe

To criticize always it is easy

[koalaTalex]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

If you have separate ad campaigns running on your index and main pages than you have on your gallery pages, which is the only way I can think of to know which pages create the sales, then go ahead and show us.

My sponsors track which page the sale comes from so I know exactly which page the surfer signed up from. The ratio of 49% being index sounds about right to me and the main, gallery1 & gallery2 percentages posted above seem pretty accurate with our results as well.

I am always open to change, change is good, but of course I need to know how all my LL owners feel about this before making any such changes, their traffic is after all what is paying the bills.

I agree that LL rules make all our free sites look the same, we change the colours, style, content, etc. but with so many rules it's hard to keep things looking "new" and "original".

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Greenie

WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE! After reading that & then re-reading Kit's post, I have a new way of thinking! Kit's not worried about his SE traffic. He's worried about YOURS! Think about it. He's not changing the structure of his Link List, he's asking you to change so that you get more hits from Google!

Sounds great to me. I'm sold.

All I'm saying is that the topic playing with the format is worthy of discussion. I don't agree with Kit's SEO assertions, but I'm also not certain that I'm fully comprehending it. I'm not an SEO. The idea of altering the free site has been put on the table a few times and you, my sexy green friend, have had quite a few ideas yourself. You just haven't gone public with them. If you do, please post them in English so that I can read them.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

...Free site add in Russian LLs, no mirrors unique text content

Before we go any further, I think we need to hear from the French Link List & Free Site Coalition as well.

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

It is necessary to believe

To criticize always it is easy

No, it's not. See, over here, we have this thing called Freedom Of Speech and while it's not a perfect system, we do have the right to question what we do not agree with & not just blindly follow what we are told is right.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...All I'm saying is that the topic playing with the format is worthy of discussion. I don't agree with Kit's SEO assertions, but I'm also not certain that I'm fully comprehending it. I'm not an SEO. The idea of altering the free site has been put on the table a few times and you, my sexy green friend, have had quite a few ideas yourself. You just haven't gone public with them. If you do, please post them in English so that I can read them.

I do have ideas & I really wish this sleep apnea thing didn't run (and ruin) my life for the last 12 months, otherwise I know I'd have brought them up for discussion.

[Sergeyka]

Originally Posted by Greenie

There's 36 recip links on there - you have just eliminated ONE page from the internet

What happens if I have 72 Link Lists on my submit list? 2 mirrors instead of 4?

If I made 2 warning pages with 18 recips (very common) what makes you think that Google would even notice? Most of the page will look very different, as 18 recips take up a lot of space/coding on a page.

And why do you assume that Free Site builders are not smart enough to change around the coding on "mirror" pages so that the coding doesn't look exactly the same?

I can sit here all day & shoot down this idea.

Greenie!
To add a rule for free site 1.5
1. Minimum 40 other LLs
2. Free site (main page - index.html) created domain.com/free-site/index.html and gallery only gallery1.html (index1.html) and gallery2.html (index2.html) page.
Other pages In other folders - decline

In a result - 100% no MIRRORS

[koalaTalex]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Actually, that's not true. Many of those referrers are due to the surfer clicking through, possibly even accidentally, to the tour from the index of a free site and getting cookied and/or starting a tracking session. That doesn't mean they were sold. They probably returned instantly to your free site, enjoyed your galleries, and then clicked back to the tour to check it out more thoroughly.

I read this after I posted my reply Useless, you know more about this than me for sure. I have always noticed how many sales I get from the index page but never thought more of it then the surfer signing up from the index page.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Gimme 15 & I'll shoot down the rest of your ideas

Knew I could count on you Kit - GG drama is the best

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I hope this thread/debate/argument goes on for awhile. I love it.

Threads like this sure get us thinking outside the box and generating some new ideas we may not have had otherwise.

Greenguy's traffic is exceptional, I have to follow more specific rules to get accepted at LOR but it is well worth it.