Internext Las Vegas 2007 - Give me some feedback! (Part 2)

[Dr Bizzaro]

How many of you here are going to Vegas in January, but not buying a badge or are still unsure if you are going to buy a badge or not?

If that is you, let me know why.
Cost?
Unsure about "new concept"?
Have been to Miami and didn't think it was worth it?
Past shows were too much of a let down?
All of the above?
Other reasons?


(I started the new thread, because I thought this would just get burried in the other thread.)

[Ramster]

Well I had a big looooooong post written up and decided not to post it. Bottom line is $250 is too much especially if you have to pay for a spouse or employees. This show is suppose to be for webmasters to mingle and meet new people. A lot of webmasters cannot afford to go to this show anymore. The big comapnies can but many webmasters cannot justify it.

[docholly]

As a card carrying member of the press..it costs me virtually nothing to attend except my time and I find it too valuable to waste on what I saw last year. This will be my 4th year at Internext and the 3rd since I've lived here. In the past I've paid the $$ but found that I spent less than 1 hour on the show floor and about 2 hours attending seminars most of which I thought I had more knowledge as a newbie than some of the panelists.

So in answer to your question, Yes I will be at the hotel, no i will not be going to the seminars or show floor but plan on doing some additional business while everyone is in town.

[MrMaryLou]

All of the above DrB but less Miami since I stopped going there.

[T Pat]

I'll be there with the wife
we won't be buying no stinking bages

[Dr Bizzaro]

Originally Posted by T Pat

I'll be there with the wife
we won't be buying no stinking bages

Pat,
What is your main reasons for not buying the badges?

[T Pat]

$500 that close to Christmas is a lot of cash for a small time guy like me.
I plan on doing Phoenix and Xbiz Las Vegs this year, San Diego is a maybe
I'll pay for those shows.

[Greenguy]

You remind me so much of a younger version of myself...12 months younger to be exact

[Dr Bizzaro]

Originally Posted by Greenie

You remind me so much of a younger version of myself...12 months younger to be exact

Oh quiet you.....

If they can get their act together and make changes for the better of the show, then I am all for it.

Last year I was not “talked into going”. I went because I always buy a badge and go in to see what they offer.

It was the same old show. But by far, much worse. Any of us who bought a badge last year, know that.
The only thing that changed, was the fact that there were a LOT less booths, and a LOT less people at those booths. The floor was virtually empty, all 3 days.
We all felt ripped off. We all said that they need to change.

So they made changes. Changes that are seemingly taken from the Miami show. I have not attended Miami for the past 2 years, so all I know is what I have heard 2nd hand from various people.
Most of them saying it was not worth the price, for what they got. That seems to be the biggest issue with people.

It’s very easy to sit back and say “This is going to be crappy show because the past 3 or 4 have been going down hill”. But the past 3 or 4 have been the same show, going downhill.
I don’t recall any “major” changes in the show last year. (Or am I forgetting something?)
Good or bad, they did try to make changes to the show. So if you don’t plan on going to see the changes and judge the show for yourself, how can you support not going?

That’s like bad mouthing a movie that you’ve never seen yourself, just because the director put out a few bad ones in the past.

I have no idea what to expect from this show, but if I don’t go in, it will be awfully hard to judge how bad it was, based on the last few.

I’d rather be pro-active and try to help make some changes for the better so that everyone can go in and turn it into a profitable experience for everyone.
Nothing is going to change if we just sit back and do nothing.

I’m not trying to talk you into going. I know where you stand. I’m just trying to give AVN feedback about WHY people don’t go or are not going to go in the future.

If AVN sees that by lowering the price by $100 will bring 500-1000 more people in the door and make it more successful, then they might make the changes.
Or at least offer some options like they did in the past.
If affiliates see that more webmasters are attending they will buy more booths or do more stuff to drum up business.

That’s how it supposed to work anyway.

See my point?

[Greenguy]

Right after I read this last post, I decided to go back & listen to the show that Farly (AVN) & Far-L (HomeGrown) did with us:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj051206.mp3

I was going to make a little "clip show" of sorts & 20 minutes into it, I realized I was the only thing I took out was the show intro & 2 minutes of introductions.

Go back & listen to this show again - I know, it's long (90 minutes)

I'm 30 minutes into it & so far I've heard that $170 is a reasonable price for the badge (up to $250 this year), that the show floor is the place to meet people & do business (if there was no poker tournament, it'd have been empty), that the seminars will be great for learning & very informative (in the basement with a lot of crowd noise & staff waling around)

Listen to all the promises that were made before last years show & seriously rethink all of this.

I think you're wasting your time.

[Dr Bizzaro]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Right after I read this last post, I decided to go back & listen to the show that Farly (AVN) & Far-L (HomeGrown) did with us:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj051206.mp3

I was going to make a little "clip show" of sorts & 20 minutes into it, I realized I was the only thing I took out was the show intro & 2 minutes of introductions.

Go back & listen to this show again - I know, it's long (90 minutes)

I'm 30 minutes into it & so far I've heard that $170 is a reasonable price for the badge (up to $250 this year), that the show floor is the place to meet people & do business (if there was no poker tournament, it'd have been empty), that the seminars will be great for learning & very informative (in the basement with a lot of crowd noise & staff waling around)

Listen to all the promises that were made before last years show & seriously rethink all of this.

I think you're wasting your time.

I know, I remember the radio show. (Or that he was on saying this and that.)

My point is that no big changes were really made last year to the over all show. So really all he was doing was trying to get people to go.
That's his job.

$170 is a fair price to get into the show. I agree. Not last years show though.... If NO changes were made this year, it would be a no brainer for me to. I would not be going.
But since they are changing things up a bit, I am curious as to what they are going to do. I really can't judge on what's to come, if it's different from what happened last year.

"The show floor is the place to meet people & do business"? That is something they will say at every show.
I think for the most part, the show was dead was mainly because of AVN being right next door at the same exact time.

I did not attend any seminars last year, nor do I usually. All I know about them, is what I hear from those of you who went. I certainly can't say anything about them one way or another, since I did not actually attend. You can, because you were there and that’s fine.

I'm not defending them, nor am I trying to sell people on buying a badge. I'm just trying to gauge WHY people are on the fence about going or WHY they are not going at all. So I can give them feedback as to what could be changed to get more people to go and making it a more successful show.

Let's say that you don't go this year. And hypothetically when we get back you hear that this was a cool show from people who went. The seminars were informative, the floor was small but, the this was cool, the that was ok, but in general people thought it was pretty successful. .

Now January 2008 rolls around and based on feedback from webmasters in 2007, they decided to try a few other new concepts as well as a reduced priced badge to get more people to come and make it more successful. $150 or $170 badges.

Now since last year (2007) you heard that the show was cool and with a reduced priced badge would you still not go? Just because it had been going downhill in 2004, 2005 and 2006?

[Greenguy]

All I'm really saying is that whatever they promise you this year, I was promised basically the same things last year & we all know how well that went.

The only difference is that those that buy into this years changes will pay $250 to be let down, where those that bought into what they heard on the radio show last year only paid $170

[MrMaryLou]

Dr B I see your points here but if you give a shitty show then come back and say oh this is gonna be great but we are going to charge you more for this, if anything it should be the same or cheaper to bring people back not to keep people out.

[Dr Bizzaro]

Originally Posted by MrMaryLou

Dr B I see your points here but if you give a shitty show then come back and say oh this is gonna be great but we are going to charge you more for this, if anything it should be the same or cheaper to bring people back not to keep people out.

I fully understand that and totally agree. And that was my biggest beef with it.

When I talked to AVN on the phone, I told them that "I felt ripped off and let down. Had I thought it remotely possible, I would have demanded a refund last year."

I also went on to say that trying to promote a "new concept" for Vegas was not going to drive people in, in bus loads, by charging so much.
If the price was $150, this year, I would have never even mentioned anything and I would have bought a badge, (actually 2, because I am bringing someone) no questions asked. Even though the show last year was terrible. And I bet a lot of other webmasters would have probably done the same.

In the past, I looked at it as a cost of doing business.
I get to go to the show, get some info, get some ideas, meet some advertisers, meet people who buy traffic or buy Private submit accounts from me, etc.. Sometimes this is the only place I will run into these people. We shake hands, we make small talk, we move on.
But for me to drop $500 on that, is crazy.

What if I had 2 or 3 employees that I was going to bring?
Or what if I was a webmaster making $1000 a month? Are they going to drop drop a 1/4 of their monthly income to see what the floor has to offer? Doubtful.

I am just trying to get them to see what is wrong with what they are doing, in the eyes of the webmasters.

I have no idea what the show will be like this year. It could be all smoke and mirrors, sure. But it also could be pretty cool.
Either way, for a lower priced badge I be willing to risk it and chalk it up to the cost of doing business, even if it were terrible.

I can honestly say last year, had I won the porn Poker tour (Not that I even came close) the show floor would have been totally worth it for me.

As I'm sure that some people, as small of a % as it was, probably DID do some great business deals on the floor.

The show is also what you make of it. I would hate to miss a business opportunity because I couldn’t get somewhere because of not having a badge.

[SirMoby]

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Those may be words from an old Sci-Fi show but they're accurate. I purchased a badge last year and got a freebie for my wife so basically 2 of us got into the show for the price of one and it was still a bad deal.

If I go to Vegas I won't buy a badge. It's not that $250 or even $500 is too much. It's that $20 was too much for what I got last year. The year before that was a big disappointment as well.

I'll think about buying a badge again when people come back from a show and tell me how great the show floor was and how valuable the badge was. Until that happens they can say and do whatever they want.

They've burned me too many times.

I'd rather go spend a weekend with GG & MML

[Dr Bizzaro]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

I'd rather go spend a weekend with GG & MML

Who wouldn't....

[Dr Bizzaro]

So, all these webmasters that visit this board and I get feedback from 6?

C'mon people check in here.

Is it that you are all not going or that you've already decided to buy a badge?

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Dr Bizzaro

So, all these webmasters that visit this board and I get feedback from 6?

C'mon people check in here.

Is it that you are all not going or that you've already decided to buy a badge?

Fine. I will be in Vegas around that time but I will not be staying for Internext. What could sway me? How about a badge price of $150 that includes a spouse pass onto the floor and into the parties. It's probably too much to shoot for but I couldn't imagine going to Vegas with my spouse and telling her to go have fun elsewhere because I can't afford to get her into parties/floor.

I would not attend any seminars, because I haven't enjoyed them in the past regardless of the industry.

[Torn Rose]

We are not going and honestly, this has been said to AVN over and over and over and ........ they still don't care, so what more can be said?

I do wish you luck in your effort, I hope it works out, but I don't think it’s a "worth while" battle any more, there are other shows that know what they are doing and I look forward to going to those over anything AVN offers.

[cd34]

I went to Hollywood's show this year to meet people and paid my $300 to get into the hotel. I wasn't there for the show, but, specifically to meet up with some people.

Had I been there to see the show and not meet clients and potential clients, this is what I saw:

Show floor - very few booths, even fewer attendees -- even with food in the same room, and poker right outside, the show floor was deserted. Booth babes all looked completely bored.

Pool Cabanas - well attended except the one not serving free alcohol. 90% of the networking occurred at the oceanside tables where you could get food or drinks or at the restaurant that was Air Conditioned. Seems that some northerners believed that 90 & 95% humidity was too hot to be outside.

Seminars - I poked my head into a few and had I expected to actually get usable information rather than hearing people pat themselves on the back on what they did without revealing the actual message, maybe there would have been value. I sat in on 3 different discussion groups, none provided any real information. I did learn that some guy sat in his underwear and came up with an idea that made him $20k. He never did explain what he did, he just seemed happy that he had earned $20k and wanted the attendees to know that.

For me, the $300 was worth meeting a few people and having lunch, dinner or drinks with them. Had I been there to see the show or the exhibits, I would have been sorely disappointed.

If I were going to Vegas, I would probably pay the badge fee knowing that I would be there to meet clients and it was easier to meet people at the hotel than trying to coordinate. I certainly wouldn't be paying the fee for the content offered at the show.

[Simon]

Okay, since you asked...

I've pretty much decided not to go. But if I do go, it won't be to attend the show floor or seminars, or anything else the show has to offer. And there's no chance at all that I'd pay for a badge this year.

I went to lots of their shows, but never really did business on their show floors (it's like paying to get spammed). Business got done, but in hotel rooms, bars, and restaurants. None of it really with anyone I met at the show for the first time.

I think they need to completely rethink their strategy for the show. If they want lots of independent webmasters to attend (and I mention that because I believe that's the majority of this board), then they need to stop trying to make a profit from them.

They should make it some nominal fee, say $25 or less, with additional badges at $5 or $10 each at the most.

They could fill the show with webmasters if they had any sense. A packed show would mean a lot more sponsors buying booth space next show. And it would mean an even larger turnout the next show because everyone would say it was a good show if there were free seminars and the entrance fee was $25 or less.

They're still trying to make money from all sides, and it's way too much to ask when they've disapppointed the independent webmasters for too many years in a row now. And now the sponors don't want to spend money since attendance is down, particularly among one of the groups they'd like to reach.

I believe they have a flawed model and they're trying to tweak it to make things work better. I think they need a completely different model, because the one they're trying to tune up is too old and tired, and just won't work anymore.

Their show has crashed. If they want to bring it back to life, it's going to take a hell of a lot more than tweaking what they have.


-- It's sort of like if I was trying to build a high-traffic link list so I could sell link spots and traffic. But at the same time I'm also asking the average surfers to pay $50 to get into my link list. And then wondering why I don't have enough surfers coming inside to interest anyone in my link spots or traffic, or enough content inside to interest the surfers.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Simon

...They should make it some nominal fee, say $25 or less, with additional badges at $5 or $10 each at the most...

They'll say that wouldn't work because of the "riff raff" aspect, but what would make it work?

Go from board to board & have the owners arrange/approve who's going - so they'd come to us & ask for an approved list, we'd start a thread & based on how we knew them, we could approve them for a $25 badge. They'd get assigned a code/password & when they went to buy their tickets, they were only $25 (90% off )

OR

Have sponsors give them out to their top webmasters - sponsors would be able to weed out the trash based on traffic/sales.

There's 2 ideas for you to ponder when you're on the shitter

[Linkster]

DrB - Ive been to pretty much every show in Vegas and Florida - my opinion is that the last two shows in Florida as well as the last one in Vegas were a total waste of money for the badges
I really enjoyed meeting with people, playing poker, dinners, lunches(thanks cd34) parties (I even sponsored two of the players balls) and everything in between - however the show floor in all cases was a total disappointment - and had nothing to do with the AVN show next door, or the lack of babes etc etc - it was the lack of any sponsors that really wanted to push their biz that way - while there were a few that do the booth thing every year and probably can justify it - it seems that the drop in floor traffic and booth advertisers has accelerated to the point of no return.
The days of the extravegant booths and draws that we saw back in the 2001-2 era just isnt there anymore - as most sponsors have had to cut overhead just like every other biz - and until someone can come up with a way to draw in the little sponsors with cheaper rates for booths, as well as PROMOTING it!!! - the show will continue to dwindle down to nothing

[Dotcommer]

INTERNEXT STOLE FROM ME AT THE LAST SHOW IN FLORIDA

After Florida, I am not sure if I will go to another Internext Show. I brought my wife down to visit some friends in Florida. The first night was fine. The next day she left to go visit her friends, when she came back they wouldn't let her back into the hotel.

I went down and explained that she was not there for the show. They said they didn't care and would not let her back into the hotel without me buying her a pass.

I wanted to check out of the hotel room right there, but they still wouldn't let my wife go to the room to get her stuff.

I had no choice but to buy a pass.

That was really jacked up.

[Linkster]

Dotcommer - obviously you didnt read AVNs expo page real well - its been that way for at least two years - in Florida the hotel is closed off to anyone without a badge - no matter who they are

You probably checked in before they implemented the "lock-down" - and got caught in the next-day purge

Not saying I agree with the way they handle it - but it is right on their home page for the shows in Fla