Gun law changes and reality

[DangerDave]

The result of the court case in DC has been news out here, and personally I was a bit shocked at the result.

.. but with opinions aside, I have to say that I have never heard of a story where a gun-owning citizen in the US has used their gun in 'self-defence' and it has saved their life?

Are there cases like this?
Is it just not newsworthy?
or is the self-defence argument just not a reality?

( please don't turn this thread into a pro vs anti argument, I just want to know if defence situations exist?)

DD

[ArtWilliams]

I am from Toronto Canada and we don't have many hand guns here but we do have a lot of long guns (rifles, shotguns, etc) especially outside of large cities. We do get a lot of American TV including their news. Here are my 2 cents.

There are often stories on U.S. TV of people using their guns to protect themselves but they are often stories of 1.) people being killed in shoots out with intruders or the reverse, 2.) being shot by intruders because their are afraid to take a shot or 3.) killing family members by accident.

Sadly, the last you hear about the most IMHO. In an urgent situation a gun with its bolt and ammunition locked away safely is of no use to anyone. What happens is guns are sometimes left easily accessible and then kids get a hold of them.

Originally Posted by DangerDave

The result of the court case in DC has been news out here, and personally I was a bit shocked at the result.

.. but with opinions aside, I have to say that I have never heard of a story where a gun-owning citizen in the US has used their gun in 'self-defence' and it has saved their life?

Are there cases like this?
Is it just not newsworthy?
or is the self-defence argument just not a reality?

( please don't turn this thread into a pro vs anti argument, I just want to know if defence situations exist?)

DD

[Greenguy]

I've never heard of one & I think it's an excuse.

[walrus]

The NRA used to do a show on like Saturday afternoons called the Armed Citizen which highlighted one or two (I don't remember which) instances where a citizen with a gun had prevented a crime.

According to the NRA each year in the U.S. gun owners use firearms for protection as frequently as 2.5 million times.

According to the WWW Gun Defense Clock, every 13 seconds an American firearm owner uses a firearm in defense against a criminal.

While I admit that these people have an incentive to twist the stats in their favor, I also have to admit it does happen.

[Maj. Stress]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I've never heard of one & I think it's an excuse.

That is because you don't live in the south. I see it from time to time in the Houston news and I actually worked with a guy in Dallas that killed a guy breaking into his house.

[FanTC]

If I'm not mistaken the law change won't make much difference anyway. There are only a handful of states that have a Castle Doctrine in place, so if you use even a legally registered gun in your home in a state that has no Castle Doctine, you are still in a bind legally if you use it.
Fortunately, Mississippi has Castle Doctrine in place. I don't do guns, but if I come home or otherwise find some fool up in my business, I have a nice big meat cleaver to ensure they leave in a bucket.

[ArtWilliams]

The thing that always got me about do that was if you said, "stop or I'll shoot", the robber is likely to fire at you (and maybe kill you). If you say nothing and shoot first there is always a chance that you'll accidentally mistake a robber and shoot a family member or friend.

The number of mass murders in the U.S. is what saddens me. Elsewhere in the industrialized world, it is rare to hear about a gunman going into a school and work place and killing a large number of people. In the U.S. it is quite literally a weekly occurrence.

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

That is because you don't live in the south. I see it from time to time in the Houston news and I actually worked with a guy in Dallas that killed a guy breaking into his house.

[hashbury]

I worked with a delivery guy that killed a man tring to rob him, but he was then fired from his job because its against policy to carry weapons. I carry a gun with me (abiding state law) while i work but as soon as i get home it gets locked in a box and put out of reach of any little fingers that might be around. Im in the deep south and hear about defense shootings somewhat often. I like fantc's meat clever idea personally

[Linkster]

http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/Default.aspx
You can just choose a state from the dropdown to see the archives of the armed citizen articles

[virgohippy]

Funny, I always thought the right to arms had more to do with defending yourself against oppressive GOVERNMENT rather then your neighbor.

[SCORE-Cash]

What gets me are the semi-automatic weapons. More and More fools are buying these machine guns and they are getting on to the streets.

[Maj. Stress]

This just happened to be in the news today. http://www.khou.com/topstories/stori...d.d53dd22.html

[Useless]

Originally Posted by SCORE-Cash

What gets me are the semi-automatic weapons. More and More fools are buying these machine guns and they are getting on to the streets.

Machine guns fire on automatic, not semi-automatic.

Of course these guns are getting on to the street. What the fuck good is a gun in your closet?

[LD]

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

This just happened to be in the news today. http://www.khou.com/topstories/stori...d.d53dd22.html

I was just watching that story on the news. Man, that's wild. The guy shot two people in the back with a shotgun...while talking to 9-11 on the phone. And the jury found did not convict him, either. Don't mess with Texas...

But I do think guns are used in legit self defense from time to time. If someone pulls out a gun to protect themselves, and no shots are fired, you will not hear about it since it doesn't make the news. how often this happens is hard to say....gun proponents say it happens all the time.

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

I was just watching that story on the news. Man, that's wild. The guy shot two people in the back with a shotgun...while talking to 9-11 on the phone. And the jury found did not convict him, either. Don't mess with Texas...

Fucking Hell... what sort of society is that in that area?? Killing two people with a shotgun over stolen property, and he walks free.... I am shocked that this could happen, that he could get off, and that it is just accepted!

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Fucking Hell... what sort of society is that in that area?? Killing two people with a shotgun over stolen property, and he walks free.... I am shocked that this could, that he could get off, and that it is just accepted!

It's in Texas. People are different there.

[Cleo]

I've got six bullet wounds due to a drunken ex having easy access to a gun at one of these homeowner's right to bare arms and having a house full of guns.

Sadly many of the people that I know have houses full of guns, it's very common here.

I personally don't know of anyone actually using one in self defense despite so many people that I know owning guns.

I do hear about lots of domestic violence involving guns and most years someone dies after some idiot fires one into the air celebrating New Year's eve.

[Maj. Stress]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

It's in Texas. People are different there.

We are very different. We don't put out welcome mats for people who want to invade our homes, kill our families and steal our belongings.

How do people in your part of the world handle those situations, call 911 and hope for the best?

[FanTC]

Moby's right. It's different in Texas, and the South as a whole for that matter. We don't like the idea of feeding and housing criminals and giving them A/C and cable TV for years just so they can get out and do it all again and again.

As for Cleo, it looks like alcohol is the common denominator. Perhaps Florida should toss their drunks keys so they can terrorize the roads instead or do like they do in Moby's neck of the woods and give them ballots so they can vote for crackheads for mayor.

[SheepGuy]

It's also different in parts of Canada, I'm from a rural area in New Brunswick where everyone has guns, long guns though, nobody has handguns. You grow up with them, hunt with them, shoot sick animals with them, but you'd never really think of using them on a person, even if you're really drunk and really pissed off.
But, if your house is broken into, the shotgun is handy and sometimes the thief gets shot. If you're the shooter you'd likely go to jail, but not for very long. Probably get more time for shooting a moose out of season.
If you shot a guy in the back though, you'd be fucked.

[Zel II]

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

We are very different. We don't put out welcome mats for people who want to invade our homes, kill our families and steal our belongings.

How do people in your part of the world handle those situations, call 911 and hope for the best?

Well - its not that different in these parts. Then again, our house burglars are not that violent either - usually they take more time to make sure no one sees them doing' their "business", and if they get spotted, they hit the road instead of trying to kill.

Over here you are allowed to shoot without warning only to prevent physical damage to yourself or others, but not to stop a theft or anything else that does not involve violence against person. You have to fire at least a warning shot in the air first.

As far as this case with Joe dude goes - thats obviously an overkill - he shot the bad guys in the BACK. Thats beyond self defense by miles IMHO.
They were not breaking in his house, though they were committing a crime, and while he had the right and obligation to stop them, shooting them without at least shouting something like "Hey you - stop!" is too much, and he should get at least few years in prison "on paper".

My 2¢

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

We are very different. We don't put out welcome mats for people who want to invade our homes, kill our families and steal our belongings.

How do people in your part of the world handle those situations, call 911 and hope for the best?

What does this have to do with the issue at hand? As I understand it, he shot 2 guys in the back that were NOT trying to invade his home, kill his family or steal his belongings.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by FanTC

As for Cleo, it looks like alcohol is the common denominator. Perhaps Florida should toss their drunks keys so they can terrorize the roads instead or do like they do in Moby's neck of the woods and give them ballots so they can vote for crackheads for mayor.

Florida invented the "Shoot First" so guns will be there for a long time.

Don't forget, DC usually has the highest percentage of gun deaths in the nation. It often goes back and forth between DC and Detroit but DC is a heavily armed city.

[LD]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

What does this have to do with the issue at hand? As I understand it, he shot 2 guys in the back that were NOT trying to invade his home, kill his family or steal his belongings.

It's fucked up for sure. In states where deadly force is allowed, it's only for self defense, and somehow they were able to convince the jury that this was self defense. I think the fact that they were illegal immigrants probably swayed the jury's decision.

[LD]

Originally Posted by FanTC

Moby's right. It's different in Texas, and the South as a whole for that matter. We don't like the idea of feeding and housing criminals and giving them A/C and cable TV for years just so they can get out and do it all again and again.

I grew up in the rural south USA where everyone had guns but nobody ever got shot. We hunted, shot tin cans and such, but that was about it. Guns are a huge part of the culture in the south, but society has changed a lot. People just seem more angry these days...at least that's my preception. Some of it is justified, but I think we are sometimes made to feel threatened by the powers that be.