New free site format (version 1.5)

[LD]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Greenie!
To add a rule for free site 1.5
1. Minimum 40 other LLs
2. Free site (main page - index.html) created domain.com/free-site/index.html and gallery only gallery1.html (index1.html) and gallery2.html (index2.html) page.
Other pages In other folders - decline

In a result - 100% no MIRRORS

If you're after SEO, is 40+ outbound links on one page really better than 4 mirrors with fewer links per page?

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

That doesn't mean they were sold. They probably returned instantly to your free site, enjoyed your galleries, and then clicked back to the tour to check it out more thoroughly.

While I agree this can happen I really don't think a surfer is going to leave all the goodies at the tour to return to my site just to see my pics, then go back and buy.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Your server stats will also tell you that your index pages get a lot more traffic than any other page of a free site. That's because a lot of surfers hit a free site, say, "what the hell is this slop?" and go somewhere else.

Well of course they get more traffic because that's the very first page they land on when they click a link at a link list. And yes, I'm sure many say "WTF is this crap?" and leave.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Greenie!
To add a rule for free site 1.5
1. Minimum 40 other LLs
2. Free site (main page - index.html) created domain.com/free-site/index.html and gallery only gallery1.html (index1.html) and gallery2.html (index2.html) page.
Other pages In other folders - decline

In a result - 100% no MIRRORS

You quote my entire post, yet you answer none of the questions I asked

And I see another rabbit that Kit neglected to mention - 1st it was 30-50 recip links, now it's the ever popular myth that index.html is the best page name in the world! Maybe next Kit will "suggest" that all Free Sites should be based in the root of the domain

[HarryM]

Originally Posted by SI

I thought the main idea of that thread was no-mirror site with 1-link resips on it. This is how they were going to improve SEO.

That one sounds better to me, but what do I know. I've never been with linklist at #1 keyword porn.

Just guessing stuff here.. A recip table in google's eyes might look a bit artificial? Who in their right mind would naturally link to 12 or so site's and their respective category pages. Inside tables upon tables, and all on the one page.

Maybe something that would help free sites and link lists overall is to move away from using tables in general (they are meant for data, like DB tables, not for designing), stop with the category recips, use valid html and even though it's pointless with porn media, try for some accessibilty.

Not writing complete jibberish might help too:
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/
"this baby never misses a chance to please her naughty mind and hungry body with a masturbation action"

What's the point of it all if this is the end product?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by HarryM

...Not writing complete jibberish might help too:
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/
"this baby never misses a chance to please her naughty mind and hungry body with a masturbation action"

What's the point of it all if this is the end product?

I just re-read some of the "sales text" as well - nothing like describing popping a cherry in detail

I recommend you a site which specializes on photo and video materials of real virgins. They find them and photograph them hymens close up, record on video the defloration actions after which defloration blood is visible.

[swedguy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

We often say that most sales are attributed to the index and main pages of a free site, but how many of us are saying that because we read it somewhere?

Since I love numbers, I'll throw some in to the discussion

I pulled some stats for 2006 and 2008, just to display the difference in CTR. Numbers are from the same domain (amateur niche) and between January 1 and March 28.

Average CTR for 2008:
index: 1.8%
main: 7.6%
gallery 1: 7.9%
gallery 2: 8.8%

Average CTR for 2006:
index: 4.6%
main: 1.9%
gallery 1: 5.2%
gallery 2: 3.0%

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

And yes, I'm sure many say "WTF is this crap?" and leave.

I do that with about 3/4 of the sites I review.

As far the 30-40 recips and no mirrors concept goes, I'm not sure I like that. If we do that, we may as well start listing blogs. Oh yeah, we already do that.

I like the idea of having the gallery navigation on the index. I really do. And I'm beginning to better understand the no mirror/SEO thing. Of course, I only ever submit to 12-15 lists with no mirrors anyway, so that wouldn't help my 10 free sites per year.

I plan on building a few more sites in a few weeks and I wouldn't mind seeing some changes before I start building.

[swedguy]

First time I only got to UW's post. But now I read the whole thing.

Instead of posting stats, I should have brought beer and peanuts!

[CrazySy]

I think I am going to try and make a sample freesite v2.01 sometime this weekend I make sure to ask "Who would list this site" for a good

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Example
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/

Free site add in Russian LLs, no mirrors unique text content

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Greenie!
To add a rule for free site 1.5
1. Minimum 40 other LLs
2. Free site (main page - index.html) created domain.com/free-site/index.html and gallery only gallery1.html (index1.html) and gallery2.html (index2.html) page.
Other pages In other folders - decline

In a result - 100% no MIRRORS

The example links to 36 Link Lists in the "recip" area. Is there a term for someone who tries to prove a point with incorrect examples?

****

So, now that I have taken a nice 2 hour nap & thought things over, let me sum everything up for Kit to comment on when he returns:
1 - Nothing Kit posted makes sense or changes anything that is always in place, except the removal of the warning page (which is called "a good faith effort" by ASACP)
2 - The hidden aspects of this - as alluded to by Sergeyka - are Free Sites where the 1st page is named index.html & has 40+ recip links on the left hand side of the main table.

Did I miss anything?

[Greenguy]

Oops! How come it's Free Sites 1.5, but Link List 2, which was a Free Site version of TGP2, failed miserably 7 years ago? |badidea|

[swedguy]

Greenie, you should star in Chainsaw Massacre 3.0

[DangerDave]

GG speaks for me on this one...

Free sites primary use is NOT SEO .. and if you think they are.. you need to go do some reading.....


As has been said.. Nothing has changed, the same static pages, in the same order, still not updated..


Oh wait.. one thing may have changed...

If you submit this type of site to PenisBot etc.. It would move THIER recips further "up" your page, making them one of the first things an SE robot will find and making "THEM" more important.. than the rest of your page...

So.... after having destroyed you page with BS spammy keyword recips, you would make the first links "off" the page the most important things...

Here is an easier way.... Find a gun, aim it at your foot, and pull the trigger...



DD

[borgivan]

I'd try to clarify a pair of moments. Shortcomings that Kit pointed to, are realy far from this format, just because it is just test. Nobody can formulate the rules and say, "YEH, THEY ARE COOL, AND WILL WORK!", so this discussion has the main aim to make your brain to work on the problem of LL slow death. I'm sure that many FS posters has there own experience and observations about SEO and usability of FS, everyone has something to say, like "I have a suggestion, I wanted this feature on FS for 7+ years, but rules fuck my creativity!". But in this discussion practically nobody said so, on russian board there was a great discussion, and the result you see is united thoughts of differen webmasters.
About text. Owners want unique texts on each FS. The easy way is to write the text from FS in quotes in google. If Google says "NO" that is cool, the text is unique and 99% that after a week of listing google will give you ONLY ONE result by the same text, and this will be FS , that submitter posted. You see? This time, LL really gets a link from UNICQUE SITE! +50 links from PR3+ LLs and we have PR2+ UNIQUE FS, link from whish will be minimum 2-3 times better for LL! But it is, IMHO, not only mine.
Then about links, it really seems strange to do them as a blogroll, but it works on blogs, it works on other sites, it is more readable to serfer, than a table of unknown banners or links.
About %s from different pages, whi dont you think that it will be 90%-index/main, and 5 and 5 - galleries? It is necessary to try and then to talk about. This business consists of experiments, suggestions and blether. People who want to experiment - experiment while you are talking shit, and won't tell you about results it it works.
To Greenie, you told you don't know google alhoritms. NOBODY KNOWS ! All SEO is about realisation of observation of SE reactions to this or that changes in site structure and so on. Kit and Co has a GREAT experience and lots of observations, and when he says that it will be better it is not just a thoughts, I think that he is "daddy" in seo and I respect him about this, the same way I respect you as a "LL daddy". So it is your choice what to do with new format, but I think you soon suggest something new, too. Ewerything changes and biz too, we have to adjust to it, so this topic is normal reaction to biz changes. Nothing more to say for now.

[CrazySy]

^^ Can someone please translate what he said?

[SheepGuy]

Personally when I build a free site I don't give a rat's ass for SEO, though sometimes I get it.
What interests me the most in this discussion is finding ways to make FS's more interesting, and hopefully more profitable.
I don't build many free sites anymore, because my time makes me more money building galleries and AVS sites, but I used to do very well with different looking free sites, before the standard format became the only way to build.
I like what Persian Kitty lists, very few rules.

[LD]

Originally Posted by CrazySy

^^ Can someone please translate what he said?

The point I understood him to make is that if you do multiple mirrors, only one of the mirrors gets indexed by G because they are duplicate content, so if a site is listed on your linklist, and it is one of the mirrors that does not get indexed, you're screwed from a SEO standpoint. BUT, if you have one site with 50 links on it, you have a unique site and all 50 list get benefit from Googles indexing. And since it's not uncommon for blogs to have 50+ recips, why not freesites?

I'm not saying I agree because I know shit about this stuff, and Greenie has already shot most of it down...but that's just my understanding of what he is saying.

Greenie mentioned a few post up that people can and do change the code and/or text on each mirror (I haven't been doing this, but I will start) then each mirror can get indexed. This does seem to have an advantage in that 2,3,4, or more sites get indexed instead of just one.

Also, Greenie mentioned that the end result is that the list owner gets benefit rather than the freesite builder.


At any rate, interesting thread. I am for anything that would help freesites convert better.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

BUT, if you have one site with 50 links on it, you have a unique site and all 50 list get benefit from Googles indexing. And since it's not uncommon for blogs to have 50+ recips, why not freesites?

Hello - exactly! (That's a line from Boogie Nights, btw.) It's worth pondering, at least, for those who still have the ability to think for themselves.

I'm always amazed at how resistant the old guard is to change unless, of course, it was their own idea or their new rule. I could easily shoot down many, if not all, of the contrary points put forth in this thread, but I'm not here to argue with friends. I do suggest that people give a new format some thought. The strangest fact of this whole new idea is that it's being proposed by the owner of a link list who isn't having any traffic problems at all.

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I'm always amazed at how resistant the old guard is to change unless, of course, it was their own idea or their new rule. I could easily shoot down many, if not all, of the contrary points put forth in this thread, but I'm not here to argue with friends. I do suggest that people give a new format some thought. The strangest fact of this whole new idea is that it's being proposed by the owner of a link list who isn't having any traffic problems at all.

UW, we aren't resistant to change.. but change for changes sake has never helped anyone....

It is my belief that this new "structure" ISN'T NEW..! As far as I know there is no rule that says you CAN'T link the galleries off the index page.. in fact I know people that do and have done my self...

.. and you can have recips on your 'main' page for many established LL's....

So what is new? Nothing?

Except as I said before..... recips are closer to the top of the page...

DD

[murray]

Free sites are designed as they are now to whip up the surfer into a frenzy hopefully.

The index page is to wet their tastes and give em a good idea of what the site is.

Once the surfer hits the main page he has a chubby and we hope the banners really start to look good.

Now the gallerys, his hand should be on his cock and and other getting ready for a credit card.

You need to get em warmed up and pumped up. This 1.5 crap is gunna turn surfers off straight away cause they are faced with a barrage of spammy blind link style recips that certain ppl love these days.

[Maj. Stress]

Borgivan,
Maybe I missed something in the translation on your last post. Are you trying to compare a blog to a free site? The two have nothing in common other than they are pages published on the web.

I have not seen one thing mentioned in this thread that would accomplish what Kit was talking about in his original post.

I think most of us are open to change (as Danger Dave has stated). If you are going to change something make it a positive change. I would like nothing more than to use flash videos (instead of mpg) on html pages with a brief description of the clip and maybe what the full length movie is about along with a link to the sponsor and a link back to the index of my free site. It is doubtful I will ever see that day as people have abused luxuries like that in the past.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

As far as I know there is no rule that says you CAN'T link the galleries off the index page.. in fact I know people that do and have done my self...

The person whom I think does the most SEO on his free sites does that very thing and it never fails to impress me. It had never occurred to me to do that, or even that I could.

I'm not really sure as to why I've been so slow to understand what the actual SEO purpose was of this "new" format. (It's probably been clearly stated, but I've been mostly skimming the thread and reacting to little bits.) Anyway, the point, I suppose, it to eliminate mirroring. That way, each link list is directly linked to (and from) the page which Google is indexing and giving juice to, instead of the current manner which is pretty much a lottery. Right now, link lists sort of luck in to being on the mirror which Google mysteriously decides is the one to behold.

Like I've said, when I build free sites, I don't mirror. I build a single copy and submit to my select group of lists. So the new format wouldn't benefit me much as a submitter, other than giving me good reason to submit to more places, but I am beginning to see the bigger picture here. I realize that free sites are no great SEO tool. But I am wondering if they could gain some SE love if they were altered in a similar manner as to what's being suggested. Also, even if the new format proved to be only good for link lists themselves, wouldn't that by default be good for the submitters?

Another point - what if the only the index was changed per kit's suggestion, but the main page was left intact? Anyone have feelings on how that would impact lists and free site builders? My idea would be to place the warning and ad blocks on the left side of the page and place a thin column of recip links in blog roll style down the right site. At least that would eliminate mirroring and dupe content. Though honestly, I'm not sure how much you can do for pages that often 2 or 3 directories deep.

[JustRobert]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

BUT, if you have one site with 50 links on it, you have a unique site and all 50 list get benefit from Googles indexing. And since it's not uncommon for blogs to have 50+ recips, why not freesites?

This is the part I like. I submit to around 40 lists so this would allow me to make one entrance and no mirrors. I see no difference in 40 single recip links or 20 dual recip links. Seems like more incoming links for the same amount of outgoing links would be better.

I also do not want to be told where I should put these links, like what has been suggested. If I want to put it on top, left, right, middle or on the bottom (before enter links) it should be allowed. Plus you need to keep single links to the link list title name only (not spammy concoctions), so the size of it all is about the same and hopefully not to overwhelming.

At this time most of my sales do come from the index/warning page, but I seriously contribute this to being the first point of contact to sell the surfer and nothing more. Because of this it does not matter to me if its a 3 or 4 page freesite. I even like the idea of a 2 page freesite. Index/Warning page leads into one big (20 to 40 pic) gallery page. Maybe on the gallery page submitter would be allowed 5 or 6 outgoing links to compensate. I keep my number one page for sales and the surfer has easier access to content for more bookmarks. Just a thought.

[HarryM]

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

I would like nothing more than to use flash videos (instead of mpg) on html pages with a brief description of the clip and maybe what the full length movie is about along with a link to the sponsor and a link back to the index of my free site.(

Yeah that would be something. What kind of abuse is possible with action script? If it's pop ups and stuff, you can already do that with a wmv.

[Maj. Stress]

Originally Posted by HarryM

Yeah that would be something. What kind of abuse is possible with action script? If it's pop ups and stuff, you can already do that with a wmv.

I didn't know you could do that with a wmv. But I don't really spend much time trying to fuck over a future customer.
I didn't really have anything in particular in mind with the abuse. I leave it up to the bathroom gangs around the globe to come up with things like that.