New free site format (version 1.5)

[Sergeyka]

Originally Posted by KG Gary

Slow down a bit! What new rules?
Until the driving forces in link lists decide what's happening there aren't any new rules. Greenguy has already shot down just about everything that has been proposed, and without more input nothing will change.

Greenguy - The God?

[kit]

Originally Posted by balls_deep

Our current model works no matter how outdated it is;.

Yes, somebody still use the horses. I do not adept of 1.5 FS format, but we try new formats to prevent link sites niche degradation.

Who think, we're not degradate, look into your traffic stats numbers for the last 5 years.

[bluebrit]

This threads all well and good but so far i still haven't seen anything that's going to make a great deal of difference.

40 recips is great to stop mirrors but mirrors will still be built by people submitting to 80 LL so that achieves nothing but it does turn the warning page into a banner farm without images. More outbound links than inbound are a reason a lot of sites don't list high in google in the first place so forty static links would be like waving a red flag at them.

If i am right in my thinking, (and there are people on the board more qualified in seo than myself) search engines do not like listing fs because the fs model never updates.
On top of that the format is easy for se algorithms the likes of google's to spot so if it is listed, the listing is temporary at best unless it has something very unusual to offer.

Search engines, now more than ever, are where sales come from and they are looking for quality active sites that update regularly and offer the surfer something new.

That's something a fs will never do. fs are basically a static advert saying take a look and buy more porn. What good is that to google?

Assuming i am right. Changing the pages or the recips, is not going to make a fs anywhere near as interesting to se's as daily updated blogs or LL and that being the case, the changes mentioned may work short term but in the long run, they will make no difference at all.

Personally i am leaning towards the idea of a few different formats that stay within the standard rules but give more flexibility to the submitters so they can build using different formats.

That may mean more work short term for reviewers but 3 or 4 acceptable models will probably stand a better chance of good se listings than the single one we are all using now.

I would like to hear from someone with good seo knowledge, what they think of this problem. Any takers?

[Useless]

Originally Posted by bluebrit

I would like to hear from someone with good seo knowledge, what they think of this problem. Any takers?

You already have.

[borgivan]

Originally Posted by bluebrit

...what they think of this problem...

When Kit will present his view on dynamic FS, that he called FS 2.0 in another thread, your brain will be fucken cracked off But LL that will use this technic will raise up, I think...

[KG Gary]

One thing worth noting I think:
I'm a freesite builder and my sales aren't declining, they're rising.
Maybe they could be rising faster, I don't know, but I'm really happy with the way freesites work at the moment. I'm doing pretty good right now, so from my perspective nothing needs to change. However, I'll happily accept any changes made and adapt accordingly.

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Greenguy - The God?

He's not a god, but he is one of the main driving forces in link list rules, along with many others. There's a huge difference between respect and kissing ass.

I'd love to hear more about kit's new "2.0" version of freesites - seems like diversity is going to be accepted at some places which is great.
Freesites are what I do 365 days per year - well, almost, so I'm bound to be concerned if changes are made.

[jds]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Before we go any further, I think we need to hear from the French Link List & Free Site Coalition as well.

lol, Ok I'm giving my opinion then

This thread is typically the thread you know nothing's gonna move with.
Freesite is designed to convert as is, loooking for ways to improve it is adminitting you don't know how to convert with it. Nothing more

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by kit

Difficult and not clear access to the picture and video content - one of the reason, why bookmarkers drop our stone age LL and go to the TGP or Tubes.
Come one, let's try to make 10 pages between surfer and content. You think you will maximize your profit and traffic?...

Do you remember back in 98 or 99 when a majority of Link List owners banned Full Page Ads between the warning & main pages? I remember this, because I was one of those Link Lists. Free Site builders bitched & complained that we were cutting down on their ad space. 9-10 years later, you're gonna tell me that I think there are too many pages on a Free Site!?!?!?!?!

Originally Posted by kit

...I suppose, better do not limit the recips number at all. Just don't mention it in the submit rules. BTW, I have no such limitations.

Neither do I.

Originally Posted by kit

1) I hope, there is less FS mirrors will burn. There is no reason to link to 40 links sites and make at least less mirrors. 1.5 format is more classic 1.0 format than future 2.0 format, but I don't ready to discuss the 2.0 FS conception. GG will ban me. ;-)...

Don't even joke about being banned. There's been one banning on this board based on the poster's opinion and that was because he was attacking a respected member of the board (as well as a personal friend) The fact is that your 1.5 does NOT cut down on mirrors. I don't mind 20, 30, 40 recips on a site, as long as they are laid out properly. I have no idea why people that are on your side keep assuming that there is an issue with the number of recips. If a Free Site builder is making 2 versions with 20 recips on each, that's their business.

Originally Posted by kit

...2. Very good question. In fact yes, longer session is cause of more sales. (we actually force surfer click to the couple links before content.) Another thing is a usability ballance. Today classic FS is abolutely worse for 99% surfers and they go to the TGP and than to the Tubes. 5 years ago, classic FS was like a small piece of gold, 10 years ago it was like a diamond. 15 years ago one porn page built in the totally dark garage (PK, LOR, etc.) made their owners rich.
Time changes and nowaday surfers drop us and go to the much more usable sites. Lets simplify FS and make it more usable for the surfers? Yes, the number of the possible sales contacts will decreased, but bookmarkers will stay on LL.

Link Lists have ALWAYS been less attractive to surfers than TGP's. Hell, I used to tell my friends to go to Ampland because I liked his site better! But that doesn't mean that Link Lists don't have a good solid base of traffic. Regardless of SE, I know my site can send good quality targeted traffic to Free Site owners each & every day.

Penisbot was registered in June 2000, right? Don't talk to me about what happened 10 or 15 years ago. That'd be like me telling Richard or Persian Kitty how it was back in 95 or 96.

**

Kit - my main two questions are:

1 - Why do you want to eliminate the warning page or warning text?

2 - Why do all these examples of 1.5 Free Sites have the recips on the left hand side?

Let's go from there. I really want to discuss this with you.

[swedguy]

The "v1.5" might actually be a good thing for free site submitters.

I have not tested and will never do, I'm only basing it on stats.

2+ years ago, the majority of the people entering a free site, clicked through to the main page.
Today, the majority is leaving when they hit the index page.

main -> gallery, the majority still click through there.

[kit]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Link Lists have ALWAYS been less attractive to surfers than TGP's. Hell, I used to tell my friends to go to Ampland because I liked his site better! But that doesn't mean that Link Lists don't have a good solid base of traffic. Regardless of SE, I know my site can send good quality targeted traffic to Free Site owners each & every day.

Why do not use "the horse" if people used them before? The cars is more usefull, but that doesn't mean that "the horses" don't have a good audience. You're about it?

Originally Posted by Greenie

Penisbot was registered in June 2000, right? Don't talk to me about what happened 10 or 15 years ago. That'd be like me telling Richard or Persian Kitty how it was back in 95 or 96.

I've read abut good old times in their interviews.

**

Kit - my main two questions are:

Originally Posted by Greenie

1 - Why do you want to eliminate the warning page or warning text?

I don't eliminate the warning text, but warning page is a horrible thing. I can't find the entrance link on many FS (I'm experianced surfer). I guess the surfers do not stand long time with us and permanently migrate to the more usefull sites like TGP and Tubes.

Originally Posted by Greenie

2 - Why do all these examples of 1.5 Free Sites have the recips on the left hand side?

Because I'm lefthander! Right-handers can place recips on the right side. The people, who can play soccer, can place the at the top and the bottom.

The 1.5 FS format is just alternative to the classic FS and provide more flexability to the site builders. Somebody can post old good FS, somebody can try new format. Who accept blogs in their LL, can you find the warning page there? I don't. And I don't see why the FS must have warning page.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by jds

This thread is typically the thread you know nothing's gonna move with.
Freesite is designed to convert as is, loooking for ways to improve it is adminitting you don't know how to convert with it. Nothing more

Know-nothings?

Who the fuck are you? I hope you fall into a bucket of AIDS and die a slow, miserable death, you idiotic cunt-faced nobody. May your tiny cock leak burning puss and your eyeballs bleed acid, you worthless shit. YOU BRING NOTHING TO THE GODDAMNED TABLE.

How fucking dare anyone think outside of the box! How dare anyone suggest a slightly different method of doing things and HOW FUCKING DARE ANYONE ELSE WANT TO DISCUSS IT or pick it up and run with it. You know, just because you wander past a flock of sheep in a field, grazing and waiting to be raped by a farmhand, doesn't mean that you have to get on all fours and start ruminating and chewing straw.

I'm not some damned clueless newbie and I will NOT be addressed like one. And I am not FUCKED IN THE HEAD.

How many of you cocksuckers have even attempted to read the thread on Master X? I did. Google's translator sucks balls, but I tried to understand as much as I could. I wanted to know what other webmasters outside of this small cocooned community were discussing and what their arguments were, for and against, this change in template. I'd love to sit on high and summarily dismiss shit without a second thought. But I can't. If I can find a way to earn another dime in this rotten fucking business, by golly, I'm going to. Maybe you'd be surprised, but the webmasters at Massive X brought up the same pros and cons and they have the exact same doubts there too, SEO and otherwise.

What I don't understand is, what is so offensive about this idea, which amounts to nothing more than a voluntary template change? No one is saying that if some of us decide to build differently that GG and DD better accept out sites - or else we'll cry really, really loudly. GG says he has no cap on the amount of recips and doesn't care if we link to the galleries from the index - so what's the problem? If it's just the warning, why explode? Why not say, everything is fine, but you still need some sort of warning? If I was opposed to this template change, I hope my reaction would have been along the lines of, "I don't think this will help, but it doesn't hurt me, so I don't care what you do."

Warning page this, warning page that. Look at how many 'warning' pages have a a tiny chunk of warning text just above the enter link, after you've just scrolled past three banners displaying a 14 inch cock resting on a chick's face. Unless you have a hidden rule about no hardcore above the fold and the warning text has to be up there too, then you don't really care about the warning. I'm not sure what the warning page standard is, but I assume it's a lot like the standard that says the word Penisbot has to be kit's recips and Nee Dee has to be on R-occo's recips and Debauchery has to be on Spaceman's recips, but Link-o-Rama doesn't have to be on GG's recips.

Even though some us had already begun to discuss the issue calmly and intelligently, others felt the need to attack from the start, to be condescending and insulting. It's a shame, because it would have been nice to hear more opinions from free site submitters, instead being shut down by people who haven't submitted a free site in years, who don't care whether or not free site submitters might be able to work with some changes and might just think that they could make another buck.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by kit

Why do not use "the horse" if people used them before? The cars is more usefull, but that doesn't mean that "the horses" don't have a good audience. You're about it?...

Horse? Car? What are you talking about? Are horses supposed to be Link Lists & car are TGP's? If so, fine, there's still people that like horses & they still buy things.

Originally Posted by kit

...I've read abut good old times in their interviews...

Good old times? This has nothing to do with good or bad times. This has to do with how things evolved & me having 1st hand experience because I was there. You read a book about a soccer game, while I was there playing it.

Originally Posted by kit

...I don't eliminate the warning text, but warning page is a horrible thing. I can't find the entrance link on many FS (I'm experianced surfer). I guess the surfers do not stand long time with us and permanently migrate to the more usefull sites like TGP and Tubes...

Then why do any Link Lists have any traffic? Based on your theory, no surfers ever come back to a Link List because they are too stupid to find a big text link that says "ENTER" If your traffic can't find an enter link on a warning page, how are they going to find a join link on a paysite?

For fuck sakes! 10+ years of linking to warning pages & you're telling me that people can't find the enter link? You really are delusional.

Originally Posted by kit

...Because I'm lefthander! Right-handers can place recips on the right side. The people, who can play soccer, can place the at the top and the bottom...

So Sergeyka is left handed too? Just admit that you pushed that format because the SE spiders will see those links 1st.

Originally Posted by kit

...The 1.5 FS format is just alternative to the classic FS and provide more flexability to the site builders...

Your reasons make no sense. I have proved every reason you have posted as being wrong or not needed. You bring up the RTA label as a replacement for the warning page & I tell you that the RTA people ask us to put the label on our warning page. You say this will cut down on the number of mirror sites & I tell you that most Link Lists do not have a cap on the number of recips on the free site.

You are telling people to change for the sake of changing.

[Greenguy]

Useless - what pisses me off personally is the way it was presented. Go re-read Kit's 1st post (which is what I am basing all of this post on)

"free sites layout is not so usable for surfers as tgp gallery" - this has been known to everyone since Day 1. Link Lists have less traffic than TGP's because of this. 2 more clicks before you see boobies.

"Text content duplicates many times" - this can apply to mirrors as well as crappy free site builders. 1.5 does not correct either. Educating/teaching people how to build better free sites might solve this, but in the end, what does the link list owner care if he's linking to mirror #7 of 23?

"They don't have new incoming links after initial listing in Link Sites" - neither do the TGP's or Blog posts that Kit is so fond of.

"Free site is a bad quality site in therms of Surfers because" - again,. TGP's are better & more popular. Yet Link Lists still seem to have decent traffic.

"We accept free sites without warning page if you will add ICRA or RTA meta tags to your site HTML code" - RTA asks us to put the code on our warning page, which is a "good faith effort" in the eyes of the US Gov't.

http://thepurelinks.com/tmp/f2.gif - Kit doesn't give us an example, he gives us a picture of a template? Come on!

"Benefits:
1) There is no reason to keep warning page" - why is that a benefit?

"Content can be accessed by two clicks instead 3 clicks before" - One less click? Yipee.

"Decrease free sites mirroring" - no it doesn't.

"PS. Read initial discussion on Master-X here (russian text)" - the PS pissed me off because if we decided to discuss this thread on say Medium Pimpin, the 1st thing you'd see in the thread would be a link to this one. The 2nd thing in that was the fact that the thread in question was already 200+ post into it - 30 or so less than this thread currently is. If you read it, good for you. But there's no way in hell that I'm going to translate 9 pages thru bablefish to find out what I already know - 1.5 is a dumb idea.

Now, that being said, I will agree with you that we do need to look at Free Sites & we do need to think outside the box. I think I need to dust off some old notes (yes, I have notes) I also think we need to revisit this thread:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=42250
(and, as you know, had my brain been working in the last year, I might have tried to do something about this already)

I'll also admit that part of my problem is ego driven - my mind keeps yelling to me "Who the fuck do they think they are changing how Link Lists & Free Sites work without consulting you?"

Love ya - Retard OUT!

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...Debauchery has to be on Spaceman's recips...

I think you meant Capt Sparrow

Here's the thing, I actually don't agree with Useless on warning pages. I like having warning text on the index & believe or not, I don't use uncensored hardcore images on the warning page.

In fact, if you were to look at my first post, you'd see that I actually said,

Originally Posted by Preacher

Now notice I said getting rid of the main page, because there's no reason a small block of warning text couldn't fit into Kit's suggested page layout above.

So my opinion on this has been the same throughout the thread. And when I was discussing Kit's example, I did not think that the recips had to be on the left, or any other specifics, I just thought it was time to and Ok to discuss possible changes to the freesite model.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I am not FUCKED IN THE HEAD

I thought that the "I think you're all fucked in the head." came from our collective responses for a willingness to list Floyd's site. Other than the linear format index->gallery1->gallery2->gallery3 I didn't really notice all that much out of the ordinary. Was it the HPA at the top of the index? I mean it's got warning text and we've all seen recips listed on the side like that before from creative builders. On top of that, Floyd's one of the best submitters I have, he could probably float a turd without my recip on it and I'd still list because of his history of submitting to me.

I'm hoping I'm wrong and the "fucked in the head" comment wasn't directed at us, regular forum members and friends to the board for what we will choose to list on our sites.

I understand there's background here because of who put it out there and the manner in which they did and tempers are running high, but it still doesn't feel good when someone we look up to and respect may have insulted us just because of the type of site we'd list.

[oldbrad]

"This thread is typically the thread you know nothing's gonna move with."

I took it as know nothing is, not know nothings. I don't think he was calling anyone a know nothing, just saying we know nothing will result from...

[SheepGuy]

The problem with any type of written communications is that the reader will sometimes misinterpret the frame of mind or the intent of the writer.
There seems to be a fair bit of that going on here, or at least I hope that's the case.
I would have thought that there would be a lot less heat in a discussion of ideas as to how some people want to experiment with the freesite format, some don't, and some LL owners will list some of those experiments, and some won't.
If we were all talking about this at a barbecue, I'm sure it would all be worked out amicably.

[oldbrad]

Using the link from the index to gallery 1, to gallery 2, etc. isn't anything new. It used to be used often by many people around 2001 or so. We used to use it to hopefully drive traffic to our link lists. I think JanTM used it with great results to build traffic to Booballistics by saying gallery 1 --> gallery 2 --- > more galleries.

This design works well for some, not as well for others. The truth is that it just comes down to how well you sell. Some people sell well from a completely scrambled or disorganized site. I don't, and have had my best sales (over 20 signups in 1 year) from a very clean site with minimal banners and regular traffic.

There is no reason to get rid of a warning page. Whether for piece of mind of the webmaster, a show of good faith to others, or simply more add room for free site builders. Those that want to should just remove the main page. It really does just come down to choice of how you want to make it.

If better se results are the overall goal, and not just the removal of warning pages, then indirect linking would probably be one of the most benefitial steps, aside from higher quality sites being made and submitted.

Most builders don't take advantage of the freedom they have right now in designing, quality or layout. Most follow the same pattern even though it isn't set in stone, but then complain for more freedom to change things up. I think it's less a result of things being too restrictive, and more a result of lack of imagination and willingness to switch things up.

Of course, many of those that are the exception to that are on this board. They bring great designs and original looks to their sites, which is a wonderful change of pace.

I would love to place recips on the main page, which should be a step in the right direction, as opposed to having on the index. This means possibly less pagerank to the link lists, but seems that it would more benefial in the long run even though it's just a small change.

I used to be able to do this as most dont require the index page recip, but i was hoping to find out if Kit would be willing to allow recips on the main page as opposed to the index only?

Brad

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I think you're all fucked in the head. We're ten hours from the fucking fun park and you want to bail out....

Ummm....aaahhhhh....well, you see, I thought that everyone knew that line was said by Clark Griswod (played by Chevy Chase) near the end of the 1st Vacation movie. My Bad

[amadman]

I'll also admit that part of my problem is ego driven - my mind keeps yelling to me "Who the fuck do they think they are changing how Link Lists & Free Sites work without consulting you?"

It is cool that you realized this and acknowledged it.

I am sure most people realized that something was getting to you other than just the ideas themselves.

The mind is a crazy thing.|shocking|

[amadman]

As for cap on recips.... There does have to be a line somewhere. But common sense should keep most people far from it.

I am sure many reviewers have seen the sites with the recips from every linklists on the net. Back when most people were using dialup these pages took many minutes to load. Not to mention looked like total crap.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by amadman

As for cap on recips.... There does have to be a line somewhere. But common sense should keep most people far from it...

Even though Kit did a horrendous job explaining this in his 1st post (Sergeyka shined a light on it for us) one of the points of 1.5 seems to be a large number of recips, to the point where a rule would be in place as far as the lowest number of recips you were allowed to use. I do agree that a rule like that should be in place - and I do have a rule that the minimum number of recips is 6 - but I don't see a need to increase that.

[amadman]

to the point where a rule would be in place as far as the lowest number of recips you were allowed to use.

Oh... I think I see now. Its not as much about submitters wanting to use more recips but more like LL requiring more recips to be used.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by amadman

Oh... I think I see now. Its not as much about submitters wanting to use more recips but more like LL requiring more recips to be used.

I think that the 1.5 submitters want to use more recips (instead of making mirrors) & they think that Link List owners will decline them if there's more than 20? 25? 30?

I really don't know, seeing as Kit never explained it & all we have to go on is Sergeyka posting that the rule should be 40+ while we look at his example 1.5 site that has 37 recips on it.

[kit]

Originally Posted by Greenie

So Sergeyka is left handed too? Just admit that you pushed that format because the SE spiders will see those links 1st.

I don't push it, I offer it as another possible FS format.

And for sure I do not "push" left side recips template, just because it will spidered first. If you know DOM, bloсk position in the browser window and position in html code can be totally different.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I have proved every reason you have posted as being wrong or not needed. You bring up the RTA label as a replacement for the warning page & I tell you that the RTA people ask us to put the label on our warning page.

So, I think all of the following sites broke this rule.
http://www.link-o-rama.com/greenguy/blog_porn.htm
http://www.link-o-rama.com/galleries/

So, why don't allow FS be more flexible in their format?

Who want to use FS with warning page - there is no problem.
Who want to use FS without warning page - there is no problem too.

This is what I think.

[oldbrad]

Why must it be the warning page to go as opposed to the main page?