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[AcidMaX]

So sitting down this evening and realizing that I have been away from link lists since 2005 when I sold smutlinks.net to Xporn, i realized I am out of touch with the latest technologies of today.

I have been thinking about creating another linklist site, but is it worth it? Is there traffic still to be had? Are blogs killing the link lists? What are your thoughts on Web 2.0 and the future of the free porn market?

On that same token, being that I am the CTO for Blue Loot, what would you guys like to see from programs? Rss feeds (latest content updates?), xml updates, or more hosted galleries sites?

This thread goes both ways, hope this is not stepping over posting boundries, if so just let me know.

- Andy

[Greenguy]

I don't think you asked enough questions in this one little thread

Starting a Link List from scratch? You do have the advantage of know what it takes to get one going & maintain it, so it might be worth it for you (I'd tell people that have never run a Link List to read this thread)

I don't know too much about blogs & I doubt if a surfer knows they are on a blog or a link list or a tgp or anyplace else (it's probably just free porn to them)

I think Web 2.0 is a really douchey term (the web became interactive the day mailto: was created)

The future of the free porn market? People ask that question every now & then - I think the 1st time I heard it was 1999 People will always want "free" porn & others will always be more than willing to provide it with an ad or 2 to a paysite

[Useless]

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

I have been thinking about creating another linklist site, but is it worth it?

No

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

Is there traffic still to be had?

No

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

Are blogs killing the link lists?

No. Too many link lists are killing link lists. Most blogs are absolute shit and they aren't getting traffic either.

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

What are your thoughts on Web 2.0 and the future of the free porn market?

Ha!

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

On that same token, being that I am the CTO for Blue Loot...

How does a blood-thirsty, war mongering, gay-hating Republican get a job with a gay program? Sorry, I've come to assume all of those attributes apply to every Republican.

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

what would you guys like to see from programs?

More cowbell!

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

Rss feeds (latest content updates?), xml updates, or more hosted galleries sites?

The quantity doesn't matter as much as the quality of the tools and the ease of extracting said tools. I just signed up with a couple of new sponsors minutes ago. Almost none of the hosted galleries for a cum-based site actually show cum. And one of the sponsors forces you to click every single motherfucking option those pricks at NATS came up with in order to find out that they don't have what you want anyway, so you have start over again.

[HarryM]

Web 2.0.. sounds like a term coined by mainstream webmasters to baffle unsuspecting clients into thinking they're getting the latest and greatest service

[Preacher]

I agree with Useless' first 3 Nos.

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

...On that same token, being that I am the CTO for Blue Loot, what would you guys like to see from programs? Rss feeds (latest content updates?), xml updates, or more hosted galleries sites?

I hate to sound so cynical, but no. Not a lot of affiliates (from what I have seen) are using RSS feeds or using them correctly. XML updates? More hosted galleries? There's like a billion hosted galleries out there now.

I don't know what to tell you except think about the basics. Affiliates want traffic and conversions, what can a program owner do to help either of those. It's nice to see programs thinking outside the box. I guess if I had the answers I'd be a program owner myself.

[AcidMaX]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

No
No
No. Too many link lists are killing link lists. Most blogs are absolute shit and they aren't getting traffic either.
Ha!
How does a blood-thirsty, war mongering, gay-hating Republican get a job with a gay program? Sorry, I've come to assume all of those attributes apply to every Republican.
More cowbell!
The quantity doesn't matter as much as the quality of the tools and the ease of extracting said tools. I just signed up with a couple of new sponsors minutes ago. Almost none of the hosted galleries for a cum-based site actually show cum. And one of the sponsors forces you to click every single motherfucking option those pricks at NATS came up with in order to find out that they don't have what you want anyway, so you have start over again.

Wow Mr. Negative. Blood-thirsty, war mongering, gay-hating? Not sure where you get these terms about me but I think thats a pretty bold statement to make without knowing me. I think that post was uncalled for imho. You know what they say about assumptions. You are way way way off base about me. Just because of my political affiliation it doesn't mean I stick along party lines about everything. I think you need to be careful before you start slapping generalizations on people.

[AcidMaX]

Originally Posted by Preacher

I agree with Useless' first 3 Nos.


I hate to sound so cynical, but no. Not a lot of affiliates (from what I have seen) are using RSS feeds or using them correctly. XML updates? More hosted galleries? There's like a billion hosted galleries out there now.

I don't know what to tell you except think about the basics. Affiliates want traffic and conversions, what can a program owner do to help either of those. It's nice to see programs thinking outside the box. I guess if I had the answers I'd be a program owner myself.

I agree that there are alot of features that companies can provide. We are just now getting to the point where we can add more features for our affiliates. We concentrate on our conversion and keeping our customers happy first and foremost.

Anyhow this is not a "we are great" thread. I was just curious what affiliates in general would like to see from any and all programs.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

Wow Mr. Negative. Blood-thirsty, war mongering, gay-hating? Not sure where you get these terms about me but I think thats a pretty bold statement to make without knowing me. I think that post was uncalled for imho. You know what they say about assumptions. You are way way way off base about me. Just because of my political affiliation it doesn't mean I stick along party lines about everything. I think you need to be careful before you start slapping generalizations on people.

It was a joke, dumb ass. Hence, the smiley face.

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

It was a joke, dumb ass. Hence, the smiley face.

I thought it was funny that Republicans were taking acid
Not sure if that's a good thing though |badidea||goodidea

[Receptor]

And one thing I've learnt about UW while I'm here - you cannot always take him seriously. He's a joker, but sometimes he gives you a damn fine advice

[Lemmy]

Since I'm currently seeking my fortune in automated splogs I have been going through my present sponsors and signing up with new ones in search of usable RSS feeds. Not many of those around.

If you could provide a quality code compliant feed with a hundred or so meaningful words and a nice pic that is updated regularly 2-3 times/week and doesn't go 404 any time soon, it would put you ahead of most others. A thumb and a link just doesn't cut it, but it seems to be the standard.

[AcidMaX]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

It was a joke, dumb ass. Hence, the smiley face.

I'm glad it was a joke. Sorry if I over reacted but for obvious reasons something like that someone could take seriously. Anyhow, back on topic

That complaints about hard to find content and promotional items is duly noted.

[AcidMaX]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

Since I'm currently seeking my fortune in automated splogs I have been going through my present sponsors and signing up with new ones in search of usable RSS feeds. Not many of those around.

If you could provide a quality code compliant feed with a hundred or so meaningful words and a nice pic that is updated regularly 2-3 times/week and doesn't go 404 any time soon, it would put you ahead of most others. A thumb and a link just doesn't cut it, but it seems to be the standard.

This was on our list of things to do already actually. I will make sure the quality is there.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

On that same token, being that I am the CTO for Blue Loot, what would you guys like to see from programs? Rss feeds (latest content updates?), xml updates, or more hosted galleries sites?- Andy

Having spent a while helping one of my authors set up a page on his site that uses sponsors RSS feeds, I would say the most needed thing is an RSS feed that updates more than once a year! Weekly, at least, I think is needed, but I cannot find any sponsor who agrees.

[jonnydoe]

"More cowbell!"

I like the cowbell ;-)

From SNL (Saturday Night Live) years back. BOC (Blue Oyster Cult) of great "Never Fear The Reaper" fame. Lots of other great songs from these guys as well ;-)

http://www.whoomp.com/articles/25/1/...-Cowbell-Video!

[wasteland2007]

Lively little thread going here!

I've been launching a variety of "Web 2.0" (whatever that means!) sites for about a year now and am finding the most effective ones as far as driving traffic to our paysites are Blogs and Community Interest sites that offer user generated content.

So long as the blogs and community sites are VERY specific to the niche, conversions are reasonable. For a peek at what Lars is doing successfully, take a look at bondage.com as an example.

My two cents...;-)
Colin

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by AcidMaX

So sitting down this evening and realizing that I have been away from link lists since 2005 when I sold smutlinks.net to Xporn, i realized I am out of touch with the latest technologies of today.

I have been thinking about creating another linklist site, but is it worth it? Is there traffic still to be had? Are blogs killing the link lists? What are your thoughts on Web 2.0 and the future of the free porn market?

On that same token, being that I am the CTO for Blue Loot, what would you guys like to see from programs? Rss feeds (latest content updates?), xml updates, or more hosted galleries sites?

This thread goes both ways, hope this is not stepping over posting boundries, if so just let me know.

- Andy

I think there is room in Linkslists if you can innovate and give the surfers what they want. One complaint some people have now about linkslists is that it can be difficult to find exactly what you want. Especially if it is text based. Surfers want previews now. They want something like tagging.

If I were to ever go back into it I would not even dream of it unless I had some sort of script which provided these features and was well implemented. If this is done, I think linkslist can be far more useful (and bookmarked) than the surfer than most blogs or perhaps even the youtube type sites. Linkslist have the advantage of having far more content. The only disadvantage right now in the way they are implemented is that stuff is difficult to find and tedious for the surfer.

What I want from sponsors?

You asked so I will provide.

Convert. No bullshit (this one is really big. So many shady programs out there and we see you. We really do!). I don't care about your contests, I care about the bottom line. Supply a reasonable amount of free content as well as hosted galleries and make the interface easy to use as well.

-Provide both a revshare program and a PPS program. For your PPS if you are not giving me credit for console sales, don't penalize me for going console free. That just pisses me off. I'm not stupid, I know you then have more of an interest in sending the surfer to the console than the site where I get credit. To me that just says "I think you are stupid and I want to screw you!" If doing revshare and trials, make it optional. I hate $1 trials with revshare these days. Options, options, options.

-Here is another idea to help people who blog. Allow a preview image from each hosted gallery to be hotlinked. This makes it a little bit easier and less time consuming, especially for people using freehosts. There MAY also be a 2257 advantage as well in keeping it on your server possibly. Same with banners if you are willing to eat the small bandwidth costs. It would be nice.

-When you name your pictures and videos make each name unique. None of this 1.jpg, 2.jpg, etc stuff. It makes it a pain to combine content from two sets when they are named the same. Save me some time so I can promote more and we both win.

-When you name your banners use reasonable descriptive names. banner1.jog sucks because we have 100 other sponsors who name it the same thing. Better is <sitenameorabbreviation><dimensions><sequencenumber>.jpg. This saves me from having to rename them.

-2257 worries. If you can follow Naughty America's lead. A lot of people are a worried about this. Help us out a bit and we'll help you. I have seen guys out there saying they have stopped promoting certain sponsors and they are moving over to the ones where they can be 2257 compliant due to the worries.

-Respond to our support requests within at least three business days or less. Especially if we aren't the type to continually annoy you over petty stuff.

Here is something that annoyed me recently with a sponsor. I opened up a new blog and did some marketing in the goth niche. I saw they had a site so I started promoting. Looked for hosted halleries for that site. Not a one. Looked for free content. Not a single picture. Ooookay.....well it looks like I am going to have to link to someone elses free hosted galleries since they do not want any sales apparently. Would it have really been that hard to provide a few hosted galleries? Especially considering most of their 100 other sites have them?

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by Allfetish

Surfers want previews now.

How do previews work WRT 2257? As far as I can see there are two ways to do a preview, one is for your script to create a mini screenshot of one page of the site and displaying that next to the listing, which as far as I can see will require the link list owner to hold a copy of the documentation for all the models on that page. The other method is to hotlink a thumbnail from the site, which makes your link list look like a TGP (and worse, it looks like the kind of TGP that is often a 'circle jerk', and a lot of surfers simply won't click).

Originally Posted by Allfetish

What I want from sponsors....Convert.

Even more important (if you offer rev share): Keep the sponsors once they convert. I have dropped several sponsors simply because they rarely manage to keep members beyond the first rebill (two things I think are the biggest causes of this: 1. The site is not as good as it looks from the tour. 2. Too few updates.)

Originally Posted by Allfetish

When you name your pictures and videos make each name unique. None of this 1.jpg, 2.jpg, etc stuff. It makes it a pain to combine content from two sets when they are named the same.

Particularly if you have several sets of the same photoshoot, or of the same model.

Originally Posted by Allfetish

-When you name your banners use reasonable descriptive names. banner1.jog sucks because we have 100 other sponsors who name it the same thing. Better is <sitenameorabbreviation><dimensions><sequencenumber>.jpg. This saves me from having to rename them.

Hear Hear!

Originally Posted by Allfetish

Respond to our support requests within at least three business days or less.

This does not only apply to sponsors but to all service providers (yes, I am talking about you, ePassporte - replying to one in four of the emails I send you (and then only half answering the question) is not what I call "customer support".)

[JJJ]

This thread is so informative.

I have a question though. Is 2257 rule really worrisome to gallery submitters who are not resident in the states?

Thanks.

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Even more important (if you offer rev share): Keep the sponsors once they convert. I have dropped several sponsors simply because they rarely manage to keep members beyond the first rebill (two things I think are the biggest causes of this: 1. The site is not as good as it looks from the tour. 2. Too few updates.

That is a big one too. In general if I see they do not rebill but they offer PPS (at least $25, but preferably $30 - $35) I will just switch to PPS and let them worry about the rebills. But not all sponsors offer PPS.

I recently started promoting some microniches and of course ran into many CCbill sponsors who are kind of small. They offer only revshare. Well I am seeing a 5% rebill rate. Average commission is about $14 per sale. So I look at this and I realize, "Hey. If these guys offered $30 PPS, I would be doubling my money." That is quite a difference in pocket change there for doing nothing different. If one or two of these guys switched to a reasonable PPS -- even $25 -- I would put their links at the top of the list in a heartbeat. A 5% rebill rate is totally unacceptable and I want to be able to get right around $30 average for each signup sent or I feel I am pissing away money.

(The above is a good hint for struggling newbies too I think. Sometimes watching this stuff and acting on it can mean more profit. In my case I could potentially double my money with a sponsor by switching to PPS - if it were available. Likewise sometimes with a sponsor that rebills well, you could do better by going revshare. But you have to keep track of the numbers first. )

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by Allfetish

....They offer only revshare. Well I am seeing a 5% rebill rate. Average commission is about $14 per sale. So I look at this and I realize, "Hey. If these guys offered $30 PPS, I would be doubling my money."......

I find that a GOOD rev share program ALWAYS makes more money than a good PPS program. So if I get a rev share sponsor who is not keeping members, I don't say "I can double my money using their PPS option", I say "I can QUADRUPLE my money by changing to a DIFFERENT sponsor who has a rev share program with good retention"

However, (info for "struggling newbies"):

1. Always remember, it could be your fault. If you are over selling a site (making it sound better than it is) people will join, then leave without re-billing (or worse, do a charge back).

2. If the problem is that you are over selling a site, switching to rev share is only a temporary fix. When the surfers you send do not re-bill, the sponsor will look at your site and either switch you to rev share, or simply cut you off (or shave your stats).

3. Speaking of shaving, if you are selling via rev share, and you see that you would be better off on PPS, do you really think your sponsor won't shave your sales? (Think about it, they charge $39.99 per sale, send you $35, costs are more than $5, so if they don't get re-bills they loose money. Sponsors are no stupid, at least those still in business aren't, if they are going to loose money on every sale you make, then they are not going to pay you for every sale you make.)

[tickler]

Originally Posted by JJJ

I have a question though. Is 2257 rule really worrisome to gallery submitters who are not resident in the states?

1. Some TGPs/MPGs/LLs are acting like they have to enforce it. I'm not aware of anything in the regs that make them liable for just linking. You will notice that Google/Yahoo/others are exempt from record keeping in the newest regs under the providing a search portal type of service definition. This might also enable TGPS/MPGs/LLs to go back to doing the preview thumbs though.

2. Although the regs cannot be enforced on non-US WMs:
- they may try to screw with the processors to enforce it. Part of the FSC challenge mentions that the regs may interfere with NAFTA rules if they interfer with WMs businesses from Canada & Mexico.
- they may also go after US hosting companies to force any WM to comply with 2257.
- Another part of the FSC challenge mentions that Canadian privacy laws would make it illegal for Canadian WMs to comply even when they have the documentation.
- Finally, the US-DOJ has been known to go after foreign nationals for doing stuff that is legal in their home countries when they happen to enter US jurisdiction. I used to be on an arrest list once because the company I used to work for did business in Cuba.

---------------------------------

As far as what I look for in programs:
- As a couple of other people mentioned conversions/rebills are the number one item. A few of my sponsors(mainly micro-niche) convert really well, and have rebills in the 50% range so I pump as much traffic to them as possible. I don't really promote the industrial/commercial porn type of sites that most people do, That leaves me time to hunt down all the under promoted niches/sites.
- Wms that submit need lots of content from the site. For every 20 pic set, I make maybe 3-4 sales on submitting. So the more sets available the more sales I can make for the site. I do buy content, but, it's a toss whether the content is actually in the members area which can lead to chargebacks. The flip side is that I have bought content that matched the sponsors banners, and got rejected because it was over used.
- A stable linking system. I am getting really tired of this "we switched to this new software, and you have to signup again, and use new links type of BS. It is way to easy to just import all the info into the new system(including referrals), and redirect old links to the new links.
- For all those sponsors that are constantly droping sites, and trying to redirect a newer site. Give me control of where the traffic should go because I know how it has been targeted. One sponsor just redirected to what they thought would be good, and my $0.30/click ended up dropping to $0.005/click.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by JJJ

I have a question though. Is 2257 rule really worrisome to gallery submitters who are not resident in the states?

I live in England, and 2257 only really bothered me when I ran a content shop. Since I gave up on that, I have never bothered with the 2257 rule.

A few LL and TGP site owners insist on it. However they tend to be minor ones that won't send you much traffic anyway, so why bother with them? (Actually I have found it a good indication when looking at new LL and TGP sites. If they have a 'must have 2257' rule, they are not going to be worth my time submitting to, even if I am compliant).

Anyway, if they expect me to follow their country's laws, then I expect them to follow my countries laws

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by ecchi

I find that a GOOD rev share program ALWAYS makes more money than a good PPS program. So if I get a rev share sponsor who is not keeping members, I don't say "I can double my money using their PPS option", I say "I can QUADRUPLE my money by changing to a DIFFERENT sponsor who has a rev share program with good retention"

Unfortunately it is one of those micro niches where most sponsors run ccbill programs and none of them rebill too hot. But otherwise you are right, if the revshare program is good and you can trust them.

However, (info for "struggling newbies"):

1. Always remember, it could be your fault. If you are over selling a site (making it sound better than it is) people will join, then leave without re-billing (or worse, do a charge back).

2. If the problem is that you are over selling a site, switching to rev share is only a temporary fix. When the surfers you send do not re-bill, the sponsor will look at your site and either switch you to rev share, or simply cut you off (or shave your stats).

3. Speaking of shaving, if you are selling via rev share, and you see that you would be better off on PPS, do you really think your sponsor won't shave your sales? (Think about it, they charge $39.99 per sale, send you $35, costs are more than $5, so if they don't get re-bills they loose money. Sponsors are no stupid, at least those still in business aren't, if they are going to loose money on every sale you make, then they are not going to pay you for every sale you make.)

Good tips but if the sponsor would shave under any circumstances it is best to jump ship, period. When times get tough (like now) who do you think they will screw with in order to keep a bottomline? I don't want that. There are so many ways sponsors can screw affiliates (including with rebills) that trust is extremely important. I have seen quite a few that made certain sites revshare only while making other sites PPS only....and often times that says a lot right there (they realize which sites rebill well and are profitable on PPS for them and which ones aren't).

If they shave it isn't my fault. It is theres. As an example, for the ccbill programs in question most of the signups come from simple text links with the name of the site (little other sponsor specifc promotion other than hosted galleries). If they are thinking something is there that is not, then it is the sponsors fault entirely, not mine in that case.

Once they leave my site as long as I haven't promised them things which aren't true or am committing some sort of fraud, anything that happens from there is on the sponsor to me.