A Year In The Life of TDW: A Cautionary Tale

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by Simon

P.S. I'm thinking of looking into a design for a "Monks of the Industry" t-shirt. |goodidea

I'd love to get in on that! I'll gladly wear one for free for you.

[BOSS]

Are u thinking about selling?

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

. . . It's a desperate and lonely road we travel. We're the monks of the industry.

Okay! I just printed this out and taped it over my monitor. . . The man has an uncanny ability to tap right into my "filthy dirty" soul.


Good stuff Preacher

[ieatjackets]

Thanks for all the info, even if it did discourage me from starting up a linklist! I just don't have the time nor the effort available to suffer losses for a year before I start seeing some profit.

[Carrie]

Preacher just curious, about how many different sponsors are you running on TDW, and have you considered lessening the amount to send more traffic to each individual sponsors and therefore avoid the "scattered $15s" syndrome?

[ynuahayt]

My link list is 1 year and 2 months old and with that being said I think I've had some fairly better results than you Preacher in my first year as a link list owner - and I'm not trying to be the cool GFY-type o' kid on the block here - just sharing my experience.

Please note the "I think" above - I can't give you a nice income/expenses type of thing here since my server costs is for hosting many domains and I can't track all the sales my link list has made over the last year.

But I know for sure that my link list has made more than $1000 in its first year. That's just from looking at my ARS/PimpRoll stats - what's special about those sponsors? They offer $1 trials! I've setup my link list in the same way that GreenGuy is running Link-O-Rama's category pages. Free/$1 offers on top, then paysites and then free sites. And with not too much traffic I've been getting ratios in the 1:200 range to a lot of those $1 trial sites.

I just took a look at your new category page and I see you use tabs for easy browsing of free sites and paysites - isn't that making it a bit too easy for the surfer though? I know I'm not on a quest to give away free porn and neither is 95% of the other people in adult - we're here for the money and the money only!

Things I want to improve on:

- Like you I need to be more aggressive about getting hardlinks to get anywhere in the search engines.

- Get more submitters. There has gotta be other countries than Russia that has discovered the free site

That was my experience - anyone has any questions or anything please post or hit me up.

And sorry if this was a bit of a hi-jack but since I couldn't make such a nice and detailed description that Preacher has provided I thought it was more appropriate here.

[Mateusz]

Just another warning for LL owners - never run PPC campaigns on your LL domain .. grrr.. week or so ago I re-launched some of mine - I've run them in past and would have never though it would cause such problems...
After months of trading linking my mydailyfreeporn.com was getting 5k+ (and growing every day) google hits daily, and guess what... next day... bah.. no google hits at all (not counting those from PPC campaign)
Not sure its the reason but I suppose so - I havent done any changes since few months and one day all search results are gone - when I do site check I see my pages are still indexed... I also get some .de .fr and so on google hits but no .com at all.
I've moved my adds to another domain and contacted customer support... hope they will help in some way..

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Carrie

Preacher just curious, about how many different sponsors are you running on TDW, and have you considered lessening the amount to send more traffic to each individual sponsors and therefore avoid the "scattered $15s" syndrome?

Yes, I believe this was an issue in the beginning. After browsing some other linklists I for some reason or another decided that I should have 10 paysites/niche sponsor links per page. I liked pretty tours like those on Pimproll so I avoided most CCBill sites -- at the beginning. I now call this the shotgun approach becuase I have many pellets of sales scattered all about.

I believe it was GrandmaScrotum who put up a post about having too many choices scares off potential purchasers, and so on my second linklist I only display two sponsor links at a time. (example: Depraved Pornsites-Hardcore. It seems to be doing Ok for me, so I did a very similiar thing with the new design of my templates on TDW.

Yes I have a paysites tab page, but at the top, are two sponsor screencaps which are but graphical listings of one of the 5 or 6 sponsors that I am putting the most effort into converting for. I threw in a couple CCBill's also.

I don't expect the paid tabs to receive the most traffic, but I figure those that do click will be highly targetted for a sale.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by ynuahayt

My link list is 1 year and 2 months old and with that being said I think I've had some fairly better results than you Preacher in my first year as a link list owner - and I'm not trying to be the cool GFY-type o' kid on the block here - just sharing my experience.
...
I just took a look at your new category page and I see you use tabs for easy browsing of free sites and paysites - isn't that making it a bit too easy for the surfer though? I know I'm not on a quest to give away free porn and neither is 95% of the other people in adult - we're here for the money and the money only!
...
And sorry if this was a bit of a hi-jack but since I couldn't make such a nice and detailed description that Preacher has provided I thought it was more appropriate here.

Sorry for not breaking up the quotes better, but I am in a hurry and I have to run out for a bit.

1) Yes, I do look back and see some mistakes I made at the beginning, but I figure anyone running their first linklist with no existing traffic pumps will make similiar mistakes. If you cleared $1k or more on your first linklist that is great, and I'd love some recommendations.

2) I think I kinda answered this in the above post and like I said, I am very short on time right now. Just to elaborate quickly, I'd rather have happy submitters seeing more click-throughs to their sites and an increase in bookmarkers then an immediate profit, but that's just my philosophy and we'll see if it works.

3) Not a hi-jack at all. This thread isn't supposed to be about 'my site' it's to be open and honest and give out the kind of information I would have loved to have a year or so ago.

[ponygirl]

this is a very interesting thread, thanks Preacher

I am in the middle of a major redesign myself, (which is why I haven't been around the last couple of days) and have been surfing around to other LLs to get some ideas. The only thing I really see is that everyone is different lol.

I have had the LL up for about a year now, and to be honest, I haven't really kept track of the particulars, mostly concentrating on freesites and whatnot. I just notice the traffic going up, so now I'm ready to bring the LL to the next level - spending some time with it, buying some traffic & doing more trades once the redesign is done.

So I'm just going to do what feels good to me (like always hehe ) and see where it goes.

anyway, my point was - let's keep this thread going, it's great to see comments from others & toss around the ideas

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

this is a very interesting thread, thanks Preacher ...
...So I'm just going to do what feels good to me (like always hehe ) and see where it goes.

Isn't she just the sweetest thing. |love| - Wow that's a really gay smilie.

Anyway I thought of a few more things I should bring to the discussion.

1) A recomendation for new linklists, be careful what you spend your time on. For example, PHPAdsnew is a great advertising tool and when I first set it up I spent literally days filling it up with every banner from every site I liked of every sponsor I had. Again, this ties in with that shotgun approach.

Use PHPAdsnew, but use it wisely. Limit the banners to a handful that you really want to send traffic to and ignore the rest of the paysites you could link to regardless of how pretty or effective their banners look. You can always add more banners down the line.

2) In a similiar vain, start out with a limited selection of categories that you believe you can get filled up. I have several that don't really move but I'll give a perfect example because I can pick on myself.

I began with a Hardcore Category which I intended to be more like Greenie's Rough Sex cat and a Straight Sex cat which I intended to be more couple porn, like a vivid set etc. No one really ever submitted to the Straight Sex category. I threw in some sites that seemed to fill that niche, but the traffic just isn't there.

Lucky for me, there are no trades on that page so during this template update I will be merging that category with the hardcore cat.

3) I'm not doubting ynuahayt's success at all, so this is by no means an implication of that. However, I believe his success is the exception to the rule because I can think of at least three linklists that began last summer that have now gone under. I can think of another 1 which just wants to be sold and it's barely staying alive. And I can think of several older lists that have closed down submissions or just aren't reviewing anymore. IMO, if it were as easy as adding $1 pay trials to the top of a site I wouldn't think this many linklists would be failing.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by BOSS

Are u thinking about selling?

Sorry, no idea how I missed this earlier, but everything is for sale. The price I would let go of TDW would be nowhere near reasonable though.

In other words, unless your an eccentric millionaire with a passion for purchasing linklists for an extravagant amount of money, then the answer is probably no.

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by Preacher

1) A recomendation for new linklists, be careful what you spend your time on. For example, PHPAdsnew is a great advertising tool and when I first set it up I spent literally days filling it up with every banner from every site I liked of every sponsor I had. Again, this ties in with that shotgun approach.

Use PHPAdsnew, but use it wisely. Limit the banners to a handful that you really want to send traffic to and ignore the rest of the paysites you could link to regardless of how pretty or effective their banners look. You can always add more banners down the line.

thanks for this tidbit too. I just set it up but the cron thingie isn't working right & have to get that fixed. Now that I read this tho, it's a bit lower on my list of to do right now lol.

Originally Posted by Preacher

Isn't she just the sweetest thing.

awww you're so sweet |blowkiss|

Oh by the way Preacher, you've got a pm coming your way

let 'em think about THAT for awhile LOL

[Magix]

thanks preacher for a good post, it is very helpful to me, since i want to start my own link list, this post helps to understand what to expect from a link list at first year of it existence...thanks for very interesting post..

[ynuahayt]

Thanks for your answers/input Preacher!

I understand you viewpoint in regards to the tabs thing - but the way I look at it the harsh truth of starting a Link List to day is that most submitters either seem to submit to the top 30 link lists or they use the shotgun approach with submitting to 200 hundred where my LL gets included.

Therefore I'm having a hard time going the route of stroking my submitters dick (we're in adult ) because frankly I'm not sure they'll stick around because I can send 10 hits more their way.

When I look at things now it seems a bit crazy to be spending like half an hour every day on reviews + time on adding sponsors/keeping up with your links and then bam - $1k after one year of that. I know we're building for the future but right now my payment/hour looks pretty bad .

My advice to people thinking about starting a link list: Do not start a standard Link List with just free sites - rather make some kind of hybrid site that has more pages and more ways for you to get traffic.

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by ynuahayt

the way I look at it the harsh truth of starting a Link List to day is that most submitters either seem to submit to the top 30 link lists or they use the shotgun approach with submitting to 200 hundred where my LL gets included.

Therefore I'm having a hard time going the route of stroking my submitters dick (we're in adult ) because frankly I'm not sure they'll stick around because I can send 10 hits more their way.

I think hanging around/posting here helps, I get submitters that wouldn't know me except from here, and I submit myself to sites that may not send the most traffic but it's more of a relationship than just getting traffic.

The other thing, as I think Preacher pointed out, is that a lot of LLs start then die for one reason or another within the first couple of years. What that means to me is that the ones that stick around will only grow more with bookmarkers and submitters that know who's here to stay.

I agree, a LL is not the way to make quick bucks here, but that's what freesites/galleries are for. LLs are more of a labour of love (or hate lol) but you really have to WANT to do it, for the surfers and the submitters. Otherwise, you're better off with hubs.

ps I always liked the look of your LL, ynuahayt

[Lemmy]

Jumping in late here. First of all, great thread, lots of great info. Thanks for sharing Preacher. Kudos to you for getting your numbers straight. I know I'm making sales from my LLs, but really couldn't say how much since I don't have the willpower, energy or time to track down every sale, nor do all sponsors have the facilities. But I'm getting checks from sponsors I don't promote anywhere else and for now that makes me happy.

In addition to all the other great advice given here I can add the following (chilling) personal observations. There's been a lot of talk about making some money (profit) within a year or two or three. But there's money and there's money. Guess what? IMO there will never be another LOR, PenisBot or Hoes. Unless the top 15-20 biggies suddenly decide to become Zen monks and shut down their sites the rest of us are doomed to a life fighting over scraps and leftovers.

So why do I do it? Well, I still believe there's money to be made, and unless I want to be a serf the rest of my life (and I use that term in the best possible meaning ) I need to build some sort of network where the traffic is mine. The lion's share of my income is from sales from freesites, but each month a greater portion is from traffic I generated myself.

Specifically from my LL experience I would offer the following advice to anyone planning on jumping on the bandwagon: Have a plan. Sounds simple, but many people (myself included) just go out and buy a script and hope for the best. Mistakes you make right off the bat can be very hard to correct later.

I also agree with ynuahayt. Think outside the box. The more pages you put out there, the better.

So if you think you have what it takes (a spouse with a high paid job, stubbornness bordering on stupidity, a healthy appetite for Ramen and a willingness to burn the midnight oil) go for it, the sooner the better. It's not easy to get a foot inside the door, but the longer you wait, the harder it's going to get.

[iMan]

What a great thread!
Thanks for sharing, Preacher and everyone else.

After many hours of searching for link lists to submit to and seeing how many nice looking ones are dated and dead, I'm not too surprised by all this.. and I guess I shouldn't put too much energy into my own future LL at this point...

[Ms Naughty]

Yes, this has been an interesting thread. I think what Lemmy says is credible - it's worth owning a linklist for your own traffic.

I'm in the process of building another linklist myself - it's been hard work, I have to say, and Preacher's comments are a welcome splash of water in the face. It's always good to stop and reappraise what you're doing.

[albundy]

Originally Posted by grandmascrotum

Yes, this has been an interesting thread. I think what Lemmy says is credible - it's worth owning a linklist for your own traffic.

I'm in the process of building another linklist myself - it's been hard work, I have to say, and Preacher's comments are a welcome splash of water in the face. It's always good to stop and reappraise what you're doing.

how long does it take to create a linklist if you say its hard work? just interested

[JustRobert]

Originally Posted by Mateusz

I've moved my adds to another domain and contacted customer support... hope they will help in some way..

I was running ppc to coeds and babes and have recently stopped when I noticed that I was receiving no traffic from google except ppc which was very minimal. Receive se traffic from other engines. Seems like they are able to remove all free traffic if you are willing to pay for just a little bit.

You can Just PM this to me if ya like, it would be greatly appreciated.

[BOSS]

Originally Posted by Preacher

Sorry, no idea how I missed this earlier, but everything is for sale. The price I would let go of TDW would be nowhere near reasonable though.

In other words, unless your an eccentric millionaire with a passion for purchasing linklists for an extravagant amount of money, then the answer is probably no.

Well let me know if u change ur mind

[69pornlinks]

there's no money in porn

[ronnie]

Originally Posted by albundy

how long does it take to create a linklist if you say its hard work? just interested

Thats really had to say, depends on how big you want it to be, how many catagories, ect. With most links scripts wont take long to install, then how ever long it takes to create the design or layout you want. The time comes in with adding your sponsors, reviewing submitted sites, ect.

ronnie

[virgohippy]

... and then there's courting submitters, and actually getting traffic to your list so the submitters have a reason to continue submitting... |shocking|