What Pisses You Off With Link Lists & Free Sites?

[kane]

I thought of another one.

You have 2257 info on your site/gallery and the LL's script gives you an error saying that you have to have 2257 info on the page. I have it, their script just doesn't see it.

[Receptor]

I hate micro niche recips. Like someone above said, sometimes it's hard to figure where would your FS fit. And that goes out to all LL owners, not just Greenie. Just go with general recip, it's really easier for us.

Also I don't like to wait for a month to get listed on a LL, but I can imagine that it can be pain in the ass to keep up with reviews. But we try to make our money with FSs, so I cannot afford to wait a month to see my site on a LL.

And of course, verification images. Sometimes I wonder if I'm blind or am I just so stupid that I cannot see the difference between "I and l".

[CrazySy]

These do not apply to LOR but I am going to post it anyway, knowing many owners will read this thread

I DO NOT submit to:

1- Link lists that don't give me direct link to me freesite by a) using a script to send the surfer to my site. b) sending a surfer to a review page with the same name as my site. I know you take your time to write long description for my freesite, but I DO NOT appreciate when my site's review surrounded with links to the same niche paysites as the ones I am trying to sell with my freesite. That's just lame. I won't mind to submit to those link lists as long as their are fine with me using the same methods for linking back to them.

2- Link lists with back log, come on man.... six months or even over one year behind? Find a better hobby.

3- Link lists that put a link to a paysite review page, their blogs and such pages in their recip link.

4- Link lists that have a rule for "NO BLIND LINKS", yet their own LL is filled with blind camsites thumbnail type ads with a "Click Here to Chat With Her Now!" text to go with it, practice what you preach!

5- Link lists which even get me confused as how the fuck to get to the freesites.

6- Link lists that require to be grouped with OTHER big link lists. You want to be grouped with them? send me the same traffic as they do and I'll make sure to put you there. I don't care about what the owners say about their traffic, I care about what my stat says!


I have no problem with rules and I might ask questions about certain rules, but I never question the rule! I can either adjust my site building style to match the rules, or simply drop the LL and move on. I also have no problem with more content as I have mentioned before in another thread, and niche recips (I am not sure if it's a benefit but if that's what you want, then that's what you get)

Just my 2 cents

[Greenguy]

This is great stuff - keep posting

[ladydesigner]

As a free site builder and LL owner, I guess for me the thing that irritates me (and takes up most of my time building sites) is getting all the niche recip links. I know I sound like a hypocrite because I just added new categories AND new recips at both my LL's BUT I'm seriously starting to think that a general recip for ALL LL's would save time for the free site builder and just might help us all with SE traffic.

I feel caught in the middle because like most said, I also hate the fuzzy hard to read image verification but yet one of my LL's uses it because of all the cheaters. I feel like I've added so many rules over the last year to my submit pages that it's just crazy to think every submitter is reading them. I'm not the freakin porn police but feel like it sometimes.

We're all here to make money and unless there's a massive change starting at the top with the biggest LL's (and the rest of us follow), things will only continue to go down hill.

[Tekster]

1. Hard to read image verification
2. 24 hr submit limit - make it a daily limit like Monday, Tuesday ....
3. Niche recip links - time consuming

Not for LOR but I think LL with a big backlog should post something on the submit page as to the fact that they are behind, or on vacation for a week, or two... Not receiving any approved or rejected emails, at least one I think should be sent out, just like LOR or even CuntMaster (sends only rejection - no email you know your site is listed).

[Licker4U]

Definitely a 24 hour window for submits would be great! Midnight to midnight would work for me.

And puuuuleaze, if any link list script sends an e-mail that my submission was received, please, please turn that feature off! After I hit the submit button the next page says my submission was received! It's redundant to send me an e-mail saying the same thing. I submit to 45 link lists and after submitting I have to go and delete 30 or so e-mails that tell me what I already know, that my submission was received. All I want is an acceptance/rejection e-mail, and if you have a heart, a reason for rejection. If it's something minor, like I put the wrong recip, let me re-submit that same day and not deny the submission because I've already submitted in the last 24 hours. (Most allow a re-submission that day but I've run across a few that don't)

And for you holier-than-thou-my-shit-doesn't-stink link lists that won't list sites because you don't like the recip grouping, go suck an egg. Yeah, I've kissed you ass and moved things around to get listed, but it sucks. I hate you and I hope the bird of paradise molt's in your cornflakes.

One more thing, if a clickable image has I'llsuckyourdickbecauseIloveit.COM on it, it's NOT a clickable thumb. It's a sponsor provided image that I've used in place of a banner. I don't think any surfer is going to see that clickable image with the site name on it and think clicking it will give them a larger image to look at. Cookie cutter banners from sponsors are boring so I like to use an image instead.

I know it will never happen but JS offers sooooo much for free sites that can make them stand out and grab the surfers attention and get away from the tedium of the normal 4 page free site. Maybe a trusted submitter account where JS is allowed? If a trusted submitter ever uses JS for anything shady, ban them for life with no appeals.

I'm drunk so I'm going to bed...

[oldbrad]

"One more thing, if a clickable image has I'llsuckyourdickbecauseIloveit.COM on it, it's NOT a clickable thumb. It's a sponsor provided image that I've used in place of a banner"

That can be tricky. Because alot of sponsor content has watermarks or the sites name on it, so if it looks like a thumb and just has the address on it i can see the problem.

I agree about the banners though. I make alot of my own by using thumbs, but i use like 4 or five shrunk down and placed in layers on a larger image, then place the sites name over several of the images in big font across the bottom to make no mistake of them being a banner and not thumbs. Doing this i haven't had any issues.

Brad

[SheepGuy]

Hee Hee! In Vino Veritas
I totally agree about JS. I mean, jeeze, no counters because they use JS?
No iframes for my best selling sponsor beacause they use JS? They use it because that's the best way to SELL their service and make both of us money!

No JS seriously cramps my style and cuts my income from what it could be. When you're converting at 1/400 in a bad week and you can't use the most effective ads on freesites it sucks.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

Hee Hee! In Vino Veritas
I totally agree about JS. I mean, jeeze, no counters because they use JS?

I totally forgot about the counters. I have a little script I got from Tom at TNB years ago that tells me for my sites that were found via a SE what word or phrase was used to get to my site, and it gives this info for every site that was accessed via SE's. Awstats just compiles a listing if words/phrases but doesn't tell which sites were found with which phrases.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

One more thing, if a clickable image has I'llsuckyourdickbecauseIloveit.COM on it, it's NOT a clickable thumb. It's a sponsor provided image that I've used in place of a banner. I don't think any surfer is going to see that clickable image with the site name on it and think clicking it will give them a larger image to look at. Cookie cutter banners from sponsors are boring so I like to use an image instead.

Trey -if you went out of your way to make them LOOK LIKE BANNERS, it wouldn't be an issue. Very few people have ever been rejected for blind links by me. I don't judge linked text all that harshly. Pics are another deal because surfers are coming to your pages to click on pics. If you take a sponsor pick and merely print the domain in the corner in a small font - then it's blind as all hell. Use larger fonts. Print more than the domain name. Don't bury it in the corner.

[JustRobert]

The blind link one as Licker4U has stated is a bit annoying (rejection wise) to me as well though I totally understand UW statement and how hard would of it been for me to just add an extra 3 line blurb on the image.

But honestly, how bad would it be for your surfer to click on that thinking its an image as long as he can hit the back button and come back with no problems.

Which leads into, I would rather have my surfer click the above and come back then click on a banner that states exactly where they are going only to be bent over and F'd by malicious back button redirects!

I have mentioned this before but more programs are doing this. You have to let the sponsors page load completely. So submitters check your sponsor. I understand you can get $35 a sale compared to $25 for their no pop link but unless your ratio is 1:5 or better you are probably loosing money because you have completely lost the surfer. The malicious redirects are usually going to full page AFF ads, which means no credit for affiliate, with no way of the surfer returning to your site or the LinkLists. Shit, some of them even manipulate other windows so when I am reviewing not only does it completely wipe out your site in a new window it screws with my admin so that I have to pull it back up and sign back in. That one pisses me off

If you think about it, why would a surfer ever click on a link or banner to that site/program again if they were just F'd by them. It does not create trust between that site/program and a possible consumer. Please come inside my strore so we can beat you with a bat if you do not buy from us. This is worse than a blind link to me IMO.

Just to make myself clear, I do not care if it has a pop up that with a click of the back button returns them to where they originated. That is okay by me.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Trey -if you went out of your way to make them LOOK LIKE BANNERS, it wouldn't be an issue.

I'm lazy It has nothing to do with going out of my way, it's really no biggie adding text to an image. Some times I just forget to put that extra text on the images and as you know, I usually do (add text) Wait till you're an old fuck like me and you'll see your memory going to shit along with everything else that's supposed to be useful.

[koalaTalex]

All my challenges have been listed:

1) 24 hr time limit, how does anyone stick to a schedule when you always have to wait over 24 hrs? Midnight to Midnight is perfect!

2) Confirmation codes I can't read and have to go back 3 times, even with a new monitor I still have to keep re-tying them. I want to let you know I am human too, just give me something easy to type in!

3) Recip Tables/Niche specific problems, I am thinking about re-vamping my system so I can stick LOR specific recip on each of his free sites but it is a lot of work for the few that have really specific niche categories.

4) LL on vacation or closed submissions for months at a time, I do everything manually so it is very difficult to remove a LL when this happens.

So to balance it out here are 4 things I like about Link lists:

1) Getting approved/declined emails and declined emails with reasons are so helpful.

2) I enjoy the amazing traffic that I get for free.

3) Getting emails from LL owners when recips change/categories update.

4) Did I mention the great free traffic?

[tigermom]

Thank you for this thread, GG. I'm not sure where this is going, but always nice to vent a little

Well, most of it has been covered, but here are my pet peeves -

1. The 24 hours thing - I am all for a window. Even though I take long breaks from submitting, I would still like to be able to submit regularly when I do submit.

2. The annoying image verification thingies - I don't mind them there, just make them either all numbers or all letters (no caps), or whatever. Anything that won't make me try 3 times before I can get a submit through.

3. Category recips - especially where you have hundreds of categories to choose from and it gets very difficult to decide on the exact one. Then when you submit, you have to check which recip it was that you put in, otherwise you're not submitting to the right category of black lesbians with big natural boobs pictures or something.

4. Too many fields in the submit form - keeping them simple with url-title-description works best for me.

5. Demanding too much hardcore/explicit pics on a FS. I agree that if a FS is about bj's, it needs to actually show the bj, but I think allowing us a better ratio of tease to hardcore everyone could benefit.

Things I like -

1. Submitter accounts, where I can log in once and stay logged in. Saves on filling in the username/email. Also, if it gets my sites listed faster, all the better for it. I think it may help the reviewers as well, working with trusted submitters. As suggested before, maybe make things a bit more flexible for trusted submitters, such as allow frames and JS for dynamic ads to sponsors.

2. LL owners that make themselves available for communication, either via emails or on the board here. I think Greenie is a great example for that, and not just because he runs this place. He's always available via PM's as well. I hate it when I can't get through to ask a question.

[annie_cash]

OK I have a couple of nice complaints...

*I dont like LL that doesnt let you know if they accept your sites or not. So you have to check BY HAND if your sites have been listed - you know, searching through all the links to see if you find a domain that belongs to you. I think the rejection/acceptance emails are great.

*I dont like the recips that doesnt look good in Firefox. Sometimes I have to take my time to change the codes to make them look nice but Im not an HTML expert and sometimes I dont even know how to do it.

*Another thing that pisses me off a little is when the "submition form" page doesnt have a link to the recips and its link is a blank one. The reason: I enter the webmaster page, grab a recip and then when I click on the "submission form" I just want to go there and fill the fields...BUT sometimes that link opens in a new window so the form page is in the last tag of Firefox. I lose time closing the old window and looking for the new one. Maybe im being picky but It kinda pisses me off. I rather webmaster pages that doesnt open in new windows

*Weird terminology. Sometimes LL use not so common words to name the categories and it could be a pain in the ass when you're trying to submit a site. An expample that just comes up to my mind: I think its fine to name a category "ebony" or "black" but itd be not so good to name that category "dark women" coz it would be really hard to find and it maight make you think that LL doesnt list that category at all.

Then Im not very happy by some other things that im sure have been already posted here like: blurry ilegible verification codes, the 24 hs thingy, etc

[Greenguy]

I'm heading on a small vacation tomorrow, but I do want to leave this thread stuck here while I'm gone so that others can post.

So far, I personally think this thread is GREAT & long overdue. When I get back, I do want to look into a lot of these issues, especially those that I know I can handle on my end without effecting anyone else (like the 24 hour thing) Omn other issues, I will have to open a discussion with other Link Lists & then go from there.

My whole problem is that - as we all know - I can't do any of this on my own without causing a lot of problems for submitters as well as LL owners. And I don't mean for that to come off like I have a big head or I think I'm something special, because I'm not. But something that MrMaryLou said to me struck me as odd when we were talking about rules & reviewing: there are quality submitters that submit free sites to Smut Gremlins that have 20 total pics that no longer submit to me - and I have a problem with that. Not because I think I deserve to be submitted to, but because I think that submitter deserves to submit to both LL's (and as many others as possible) on an even level.

I'm not dumb enough to think that would ever come to fruition thru the entire internet - nor am I nuts enough to think that I could make it happen. But an open discussion about what upsets the regular free site submitters out there is a step in the right direction

So continue to post - even if someone already mentioned it - and we'll go from there

[Preacher]

Being as it sounds like you're looking at the entire model and not just the little quips, let's look at this from a bit broader perspective.

When building, there really isn't anything more of a pain in the ass than the entire submission process. Forget the little things like image verification, just the entire act of submitting to multiple linklists, especially multiple mirrors takes too much time, causes too much concern over different rules or who is listed with whom and is so damned repatative it's bordering on insane.

Yeah, I know there are problems with submission software, but let me bring up Useless' brilliant idea of 1 hosted form that could submit to numerous linklists depending on the submitters choice of lists she would like to submit to and the submission just gets queued at different linklists for review.

I don't build mirrors, and I can tell you now, that if I could fill out one submit page instead of 12-20, I'd be a much happier camper.

To go a step further, and steal another one of Useless' brilliant ideas (I love setting him up for blame), being as recip collecting seems to be a fairly large complaint among submitters, we as LL owners could create pre-grouped recips that are generic enough to work for everyone.

Let's say a submitter wants to build an anal sex site, so she goes to whatever hosted domain we set up and he clicks on anal. There's a list of the participating partner linklists with radio buttons next to them. She picks let's say 12 linklists, hits build and the script builds an entire non-styled recip table based on recips the LL owners have already pre-approved. Copy and paste and the recip table is done, no recip harvesting or stripping out of styles.

Yes, these would be pretty significant changes, but just blame Useless! |goodnight

[xxxjay]

I don't think the question should be so much what pisses me off...it is what is pissing the surfer off. Personally, I love all of the extra exposure to advertising that you get from a freesite vs. a tgp gallery.

A lot of surfers that grew up on TGPs may not have any tollerance for this.

[sue-fl]

Some really good points have been brought up in this thread!

As a submitter I agree with the image verification. I always get them wrong at least once. Some LL's like Penis Bot and Wet Place have them but are really easy to see. The ones with ten letters with the lines thew them are the ones I mean. Even with my glasses on I can't get them right!

The LL owners who request to be grouped with certain LL's. I have had to stop submitting to some of them. I would end up with 20 plus receipts on one page if I didn't, and I don't think it looks right.

As a LL owner you can put what you want as a receipt to my site as long as my url is in there I'm happy. But where the are they getting my old receipt button??? I'm getting a lot of submitters that are using it and it's been over a year since I removed them

Other than that I'm happy with the ones I submit to at this point.

[Linkster]

I would love to open up my submissions to everyone - I had the opportunity to check some of the submits that normally go straight to the trash bin that I never see today - and as usual there were the batches of group submitters and paid submitters that have been around forever although I see their number has increased amazingly.

I also noted some of my regular submitters(including at least one that has posted in this thread) have gone to autosubmitting without checking their work - damn shame that they got sucked into that game.

As a LL owner I would love to see category recips go completely away - they have no value any more in my eyes as the SEs certainly dont give any value to recips any more - and the only value to even having a recip at all is the little trickle of traffic that free sites send to the LL occasionally (those 1 hit every 3 days actually do add up over time) - but then that is something I will bring up in talking with other LLs.

The only reservations I have with Iframing and JS is the percentage of people that misused it when we did allow them - they are great for ads - but unfortunately they are so easy to fuck the surfers with - and that doesnt do anyone any good.

I have allowed the html pages for images in the past with one banner as Ive always felt it was better conversions and better for the SEs
Consoles on the other hand are again something that I just cant see happening on free sites - again its a surfer trust issue.
Someone mentioned the sponsors consoles - I guess there are some of us that still do check the links going out of the free sites for screwed up console chains and surfer tricks - and there are some LL owners that have bans on specific sponsors because of that - its an issue that a free site builder has to deal with when comparing listings and traffic to conversions.

[papagmp]

Gwad I hate:

Category recips with html error in them. Come on people, learn to close your html tags! (and in the correct order)

Image verification that is posted on the page below the submit button.

LL's that burry free sites.

Any rule that seems absurd at 3 three in the morning when I just want to get the damn site submitted and go to bed.

No mixing of softcore and hardcore – shit, most hardcore sex scenes start out as softcore – or do we have to skip the foreplay and get straight to the fuckin?

[tigermom]

One more thing, since someone mentioned categories - vague categories that leave me baffled, or categories that are too specific and don't leave room for anything more general. For example, in Porn Movie Links where you have big tits hardcore, big tits lesbians and big tits solo, but nothing for big tits, guy on girl softcore. Seems like a shame to have good freesites fall between the cracks for that.

Thing is, I make the freesite first, then check the categories. I would like to see LL's make room for every kind of FS that is legitimate, so that if we can't submit it to any specific category, maybe some catch-all category?

[tigermom]

Oh, forgot to add - enjoy your holiday Greenie

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Linkster

As a LL owner I would love to see category recips go completely away - they have no value any more in my eyes as the SEs certainly dont give any value to recips any more - and the only value to even having a recip at all is the little trickle of traffic that free sites send to the LL occasionally (those 1 hit every 3 days actually do add up over time) - but then that is something I will bring up in talking with other LLs.

Amen to that If anything, I feel it's detrimental to both parties having that straight A>B B>A link trade.

Personal LL gripes:

I don't really have any tbh. It's a simple part of the business, though the only thing I'd be pleased to see is some slight relaxation on what is considered a blind text link. And even that is only because I had to say something