Opinions regarding CCBILL and the so called "Heavy Scrubbing"

[juicylinks]

I have been hearing recently "OMG CCbill stats are bad" "They are scrubbing hard" and so on.

Now from my experience I take evrything i read on boards with a grain of salt. Anybody experiencing any daramtic dips in sales with CCBILL from there own experiences?


Personally i think overall it has been steady . I use a sample of a good length of time to base judgement. Like in any business you will have your good days and bad days... just need to look at overall averages....

Your thoughts?

[Jim]

juicylinks
I have heard the same thing from a lot of people over the past few months about CCbill. I do think it has been a steady decline or perhaps I should say increase of scrubbing. I have seen several times someone being declined by CCbill and having no problem signing up using Epoch.

Of course, with the Memorial Day weekend behind us, you would expect signups to drop off considerably. Even if traffic is the same, it seems that people have better things to spend their money on this time of year.

[juicylinks]

Originally posted by Jim
juicylinks
I have heard the same thing from a lot of people over the past few months about CCbill. I do think it has been a steady decline or perhaps I should say increase of scrubbing. I have seen several times someone being declined by CCbill and having no problem signing up using Epoch.

Of course, with the Memorial Day weekend behind us, you would expect signups to drop off considerably. Even if traffic is the same, it seems that people have better things to spend their money on this time of year.

Yup , I own a book wholesaling business also for the last 3 yrs and summer time has been slow also . Warm weather , more people go out more and such.

I think a good medium would be to have cascading and such to really see the differnece.

Something I will need to look into.

Thanks for the input Jim.

[spazlabz]

I have been using CCBill over the past 4 years for my own sites (not affiliated with Extreme Paychecks ) and I had figured it out that I was dropping about 25% of potential sales to my sites due to their scrubbing. I called the good folks there to discuss this with them and the guy I talked to on the phone explained that they scrub so much because of fraud, chargebacks blah blah blah. It all makes sence. They were/are protecting me. But 25% consistantly dropped hurts. He also told me that the database of scrubbed cards was in the millions, and this was 2 or 3 years ago. To be honest, by now I am surprised they can allow ANY credit card to go through!! LOL


spaz

[ardentgent]

Please explain to this newbie the term scrubbing.

Thanks.

[Cleo]

I wonder if they scrub across the board the same or if some paysites get scrubbed more then others?

[Greenguy]

ardentgent - "scrubbing" (from http://www.webmastervault.com/tip-creditcard.shtml )

Fraud prevention is one of the more costly and intensive services that the bank or third party processor always provides. The term "scrubbing" is used to describe the method the processor uses to determine whether or not the person attempting to make the transaction is the actual cardholder. Some processors have their own scrubbing systems, while others rely on external databases. Scrubbing is absolutely vital to the credit card approval process in order to keep charge-backs and fraud to a minimum.

Cleo - I'd bet that sites with higher chargeback rates would be looked at a little differently - new sites as well.

[juicylinks]

Originally posted by spazlabz
I have been using CCBill over the past 4 years for my own sites (not affiliated with Extreme Paychecks ) and I had figured it out that I was dropping about 25% of potential sales to my sites due to their scrubbing. I called the good folks there to discuss this with them and the guy I talked to on the phone explained that they scrub so much because of fraud, chargebacks blah blah blah. It all makes sence. They were/are protecting me. But 25% consistantly dropped hurts. He also told me that the database of scrubbed cards was in the millions, and this was 2 or 3 years ago. To be honest, by now I am surprised they can allow ANY credit card to go through!! LOL


spaz

I can only imagine the numbers in there db now for that.

Anybody have any thoughts on this regarding Epoch and Ibill and their "scrubbing" I am sure its lower and such

[tiny]

I don't think they look at any site differently.I think they need to revamp the whole damn system.Be it scrubbing or declining ya because you signed up for two other sites already.The only real good ccbill does is actually for the owners of sites.Not enough people enable cookies anymore .I see declines come in alot amd it sucks .I don't believe in that trackin crap they prompt either.

[Ramster]

Just after a Format C of my system I went to buy some software and ccbill was the processer and I was declined (or couldn't access, can't remember) for not enabling cookies. I had to reset my browser and get cookies going.

[RockDaddy]

Just after a Format C of my system I went to buy some software and ccbill was the processer and I was declined (or couldn't access, can't remember) for not enabling cookies. I had to reset my browser and get cookies going

But if you had clicked through a referral link and then had to enable cookies to make the purchase, that still wouldn't have tracked or given credit to the referring webmaster since you didn't have them enabled before clicking the link. Right?

I've made many purchases through CCBill over the years and have never had any of my credit cards declined.

[KCat]

Originally posted by Ramster
Just after a Format C of my system I went to buy some software and ccbill was the processer and I was declined (or couldn't access, can't remember) for not enabling cookies. I had to reset my browser and get cookies going.

Seriously? How many users know how to enable cookies?

[juicylinks]

Originally posted by KCat
Seriously? How many users know how to enable cookies?

the avg "Joe" surfer , very rare and small percentage do.

[xxxjay]

With CCbill, it's true, you can loose cookies and the scrub / decline % is higher than what it needs to be.

I've seen profits from a program go up by going with the cascading.

[Smoothie]

Just my personal experience the past 3 or 4 months, sales have dipped dramaticly during the first half of the month then do very well for the second half. This is not just CCBill, but accross the board.

I am thinking the proccessors scrub hard during certain periods to stay within the new VISA chargeback rules. It's just a guess but I have definately been seen a pattern since the first of the year.

[spacemanspiff]

I signed up for an affiliate program a few months ago. Originally they used CCBill, so I was a little reluctant to sign up as I've never done well with CC. I don't know why, that's just the way it is. Scrubbing or whatever. As expected, conversions sucked.

In the last month, they changed over to Epoch or something similar and conversions are more in line with my other programs. They're still running the CC account too, so I can look at the numbers side by side. (I haven't tracked down and changed all the referrer codes yet )

[romeoboi]

well... this isnt from the perspective of a paysite operator, but it may say something.

I was curious about signing up with vividcash to promote their sites, so I just signed up for the trial to see how easy it was to sign up, cancel, what content they had inside, etc...

my credit card which I know was working was at first declined through CCBill and I guess they had cascading processing (not sure exactly how it works) because I got approved by another proccessor.... the processor and vivid both got paid because i had a legit card and paid my bill, but CCBill didn't get paid because they declined my card

I dont know much about cascading billing, but doesnt this whole arguement about how much each proccessor scrubs just support having cascading billing and alternative payment options in place? Is it that expensive or hard to set up a cascading system?

[KCat]

Originally posted by romeoboi
Is it that expensive or hard to set up a cascading system?

Well, there was a thread on another board about a guy who had bought a seemingly popular program to run cascading billing for $12,000 & couldn't get it to work. Apparently the script was buggy...no support...yadda yadda yadda.

I'm sure some folks don't relish the idea of paying the $750 to register at another billing company that may or may not be around next month too.

Heavy scrubbing or not, at least CCBill seems stable. But I'd love to see more options for my own sites.

[romeoboi]

*sigh*

I always toy around with the idea of starting a paysite, but with billing issues and the higher startups costs i think it will be more of a dream than a reality

Has anyone used mansion productions cascading billing system? What is the most popular cascading system?

[LB]

Easy.....

Collegefuckfest on TGP CCBILL- 1:859 for 293 joins
Collegefuckfest on TGP Triplexcash.com Cascade billing - 1:202 for 490 joins

Same tour, same traffic, same gallery templates. You do the maths.

[cherrylula]

Its a shame they don't do more quality control of member sections, because there are a lot of crappy ccbill sites out there.

No doubt those sites get chargebacks and affect the whole system. Especially crappy sites that rebill and are overpriced.

[DonovanPhillips]

I checked my stats earlier today.

If you're a webmaster, here's how to check yours:

If you log into your webmaster admin, go to the "Transactions" tab, select "form hits". This will give you a percentage of those that tried to process -vs- those that were approved.

HERE ARE MY STATS FOR LAST WEEK, BROKEN DOWN BY DAY AND THEN WITH THE AVERAGE FOR THE ENTIRE WEEK (these stats are for all of my sites combined):

June 13th: 40.00% approved
June 14th: 57.14% approved
June 15th: 71.43% approved
June 16th: 66.67% approved
June 17th: 100% approved (Damn!)
June 18th: 69.23% approved
June 19th: 66.67% approved (so far)


OVERALL AVERAGE FOR THE LAST WEEK: 69.57% approved
(which means that 30.43% of those that try are denied)


In comparison with several other program owners throughout the day that process with others or do their own processing, these numbers are normal and acceptable.

[KCat]

Originally posted by DonovanPhillips
If you log into your webmaster admin, go to the "Transactions" tab, select "form hits". This will give you a percentage of those that tried to process -vs- those that were approved.

Wouldn't the form hits also include people who just loaded the form page, but didn't fill out the page? A lot of sites don't include the pricing, so they might hit join just to check it out but not actually join.

My Pro Adult ratio from the join page is still something like 1:150, presumably because they decide it's too much money or whatever.

[juicylinks]

Originally posted by romeoboi
*sigh*

I always toy around with the idea of starting a paysite, but with billing issues and the higher startups costs i think it will be more of a dream than a reality

Has anyone used mansion productions cascading billing system? What is the most popular cascading system?

Nice numbers, I think offering and usuing cascading is the best thing to do.

[KCat]

I'm only getting a couple of declines a week, so setting up cascading isn't worth it for me. And honestly, I just don't trust anybody else to still be here a year from now.