hosting and 2257

chilihost · 2005-05-25, 09:33 PM

The way I read the new 2257 regulations, whether you host within the USA or outside of the USA is irrelevant, what matters is the location of your primary point of business .....but, nevertheless, I have already had 3 people contact me in the last 24 hours in regards to this.

Am I interpreting it correctly? Can anyone else give me their opinion on this? Just in case, I am working on a solution to this with a Netherlands data center, but I really don't think it is necessary to move hosting offshore. This is confusing

cheers,
Luke

Cleo · 2005-05-25, 09:36 PM

Oh good, another 2257 thread…

Did you read through the other one?

From how I'm reading things it is what country you are a citizen of more then anything else.

chilihost · 2005-05-25, 09:39 PM

yes, cleo, I did read through it and that is how I interpret it as well, but I feel that this is extremely important and I wanted to know if that is how every one else interprets it too.

cheers,
Luke

cd34 · 2005-05-25, 10:16 PM

If they are US Citizens, simply moving hosting offshore won't anything. Even some of the bearer share/foreign registry services that some people are pitching won't make any difference.

However, to make it easy so people don't need to track dozens of threads, we should really continue this over here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=19962

Useless · 2005-05-25, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cd34

However, to make it easy so people don't need to track dozens of threads, we should really continue this over here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=19962

I don't know. I have a feeling that the different realms which are affected are going to demand a few different threads. That one thread is already a shit storm. 2257 has many subtopics which have yet to develop. I don't blame Luke at all for starting a new thread. (and I love placing blame

)

cd34 · 2005-05-25, 10:37 PM

I think the powers that be need to create a 2257 forum with some fairly well defined topics, however, moving hosting offshore still deals with the basic issue of whether changing venue eliminates responsibility.

In the entire thread, its been about interpreting the law and potential actions -- moving hosting seems to be a tactic for avoiding the law, which seems to me to be the primary thrust of the first thread.

Useless · 2005-05-25, 10:44 PM

Absolutely agree. There seems to be a lot people looking for loopholes and escape routes instead of spending their energy more wisely on finding ways to work within the law. Of course, I think you know how I feel.

They'll never take me alive. I've been digging a 'spider hole' in my backyard under the shed all week.

Cleo · 2005-05-25, 10:49 PM

Personally I think the best advice is to consult with a lawyer.

Do we really need a board dealing with a legal matter full of hysterical webmasters interpreting the law?

cd34 · 2005-05-25, 10:55 PM

more adviews.

I think there could be some valuable gems of wisdom in there.

Useless · 2005-05-25, 11:01 PM

In eigth grade, in metal shop, I printed cards that read 'Mark D*Mers - Attorney at Law'. Does that count? My legal expertise extends to the limit of knowing that the age of consent in NY state is 17.

RawAlex · 2005-05-25, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

In eigth grade, in metal shop, I printed cards that read 'Mark D*Mers - Attorney at Law'. Does that count? My legal expertise extends to the limit of knowing that the age of consent in NY state is 17.

That probably made you wiser (and more popular) than most other lawyers in the state.

Joke: You know why New Jersey has all the chemical factories, pollution, and dispair and California has all the lawyers? Because New Jersey got to choose first.

Alex

chilihost · 2005-05-25, 11:46 PM

I am not looking for loopholes, I am just trying to protect my own business

So far, the comments I have received are from people not in the USA who are asking about moving their hosting just in case.

cheers,
Luke

Wazza · 2005-05-25, 11:59 PM

If you can negotiate a "US comparable" price I'm sure you'll get plenty of interest from us foreigners

Hint: If you're a hosting company don't be shy to tell us if your DC is outside of the US

|viking|

chilihost · 2005-05-26, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wazza

If you can negotiate a "US comparable" price I'm sure you'll get plenty of interest from us foreigners

Hint: If you're a hosting company don't be shy to tell us if your DC is outside of the US

|viking|

I am setting up our new chilihost.nl site as we speak, just waiting for the domain name to propogate. We will be offering Netherlands-based servers!

cheers,
Luke

RawAlex · 2005-05-26, 12:02 AM

I think there will be some moves in the next while as webmasters outside the US move their hosting away from physically located in the US. However, webmasters in the US, or those webmasters from outside the US who have formed a US company for purposes of processing and such are pretty much screwed anyway, so moving stuff to the moon probably wouldn't help.

Alex

Wazza · 2005-05-26, 12:10 AM

This relates to non US based persons and entities

As I read it - entities formed within the US for the sole purpose of providing access to US based 3rd party billing would not be subject to the regulation (as they don't actually own / provide anything 2257able) and neither would the company / individual who ultimately owns that entity (as expressly excluded by the regs)

BTW IANAL

kane · 2005-05-26, 03:53 AM

the way I understand it is that it doesn't matter where you live or where you host ( although that is some of it ) it's all about who you are doing biz with. For example if you are in europe and host in europe but are doing biz with US based companies you must comply to the law in order to do that biz. Now will they be able to force you to comply? that's a different story, but I supposed they could force a sponser to not pay you until you gave proof of your compliance. That is, at least, how I understand it. Since i'm in the US, host in the US and most of my sponsers are in the US I haven't really been looking too much into this. I'm not going to try to hide, if there is no injunction and/or changes to the law, I'll comply, it'll suck, but I'll do it.

digart · 2005-05-29, 03:42 PM

We will see what happens when the law goes in affect. Links change, computers don't work perfectly and one person in one place might see something completely different on his computer than another. I support the efforts of the free speech group just can't afford membership. ACLU is already taking on UTAH.
I made a graphic use it freely off your bandwidth If you want to link to my site(s) in exchange for the graphic thats up to you.
http://www.eroticdvd.com/SEXUALLY_EX...E_PAINTING.gif
I personally think a link to the info for 2257 is enough for any official trying to enforce a law that will be changed in the future anyway.
The worst part of the law in my opinion is giving the address to adult webmasters so they can be subjected to the same shit that the strip clubs in some places have to go through. Doesn't really matter who's doing it just the fact that it can be done at all!"
PS digart speaks from my mouth.

tickler · 2005-05-30, 02:48 AM

Even placement of the 2257 info may be difficult if you have stuff on free hosts.

They specifically say it has to be either in the domain root as in mydomain.com/2257.htm or the sub-domain root as in galleries.mydomain.com/2257.htm.

A lot of free hosts are setup as freehost.com/yoursite/2257.htm

ArtWilliams · 2005-05-30, 09:18 AM

I actually a moral person and I do believe in right and wrong, however .... If you look at any law in a pragmatic fashion and in the extreme, you have to ask yourself what can they do to me? The authorities can:

1 arrest me
2 take my property
3 stop my income flow
4 a combo of 1, 2 and 3

So ask yourself,

A Of what country am I a citizen?
B. Where do I reside?
C. Where is my server?
D. Do I visit the US often?
E. From what country do I earn my income?

Add some probabilty that the above may actually happen wrt 2257 and you can then start to assess your risk.

My thoughts.

-- art

2005-05-25, 09:33 PM	#1
chilihost Look at 'em. Watchin' my TV. Sittin on my couch. You better not be in my ass groove! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 465	hosting and 2257 The way I read the new 2257 regulations, whether you host within the USA or outside of the USA is irrelevant, what matters is the location of your primary point of business .....but, nevertheless, I have already had 3 people contact me in the last 24 hours in regards to this. Am I interpreting it correctly? Can anyone else give me their opinion on this? Just in case, I am working on a solution to this with a Netherlands data center, but I really don't think it is necessary to move hosting offshore. This is confusing cheers, Luke __________________ HunkMoney+BritishBucks+LatinoBucks=50+ gay sites!

2005-05-25, 09:36 PM	#2
Cleo Subversive filth of the hedonistic decadent West Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 27,936	Oh good, another 2257 thread… Did you read through the other one? From how I'm reading things it is what country you are a citizen of more then anything else. __________________ Free Rides on Uber and Lyft Uber Car: uberTzTerri Lyft Car: TZ896289

2005-05-25, 09:39 PM	#3
chilihost Look at 'em. Watchin' my TV. Sittin on my couch. You better not be in my ass groove! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 465	yes, cleo, I did read through it and that is how I interpret it as well, but I feel that this is extremely important and I wanted to know if that is how every one else interprets it too. cheers, Luke __________________ HunkMoney+BritishBucks+LatinoBucks=50+ gay sites!

2005-05-25, 10:16 PM	#4
cd34 a.k.a. Sparky Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: West Palm Beach, FL, USA Posts: 2,396	If they are US Citizens, simply moving hosting offshore won't anything. Even some of the bearer share/foreign registry services that some people are pitching won't make any difference. However, to make it easy so people don't need to track dozens of threads, we should really continue this over here: http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=19962 __________________ SnapReplay.com a different way to share photos - iPhone & Android

2005-05-25, 10:37 PM	#6
cd34 a.k.a. Sparky Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: West Palm Beach, FL, USA Posts: 2,396	I think the powers that be need to create a 2257 forum with some fairly well defined topics, however, moving hosting offshore still deals with the basic issue of whether changing venue eliminates responsibility. In the entire thread, its been about interpreting the law and potential actions -- moving hosting seems to be a tactic for avoiding the law, which seems to me to be the primary thrust of the first thread. __________________ SnapReplay.com a different way to share photos - iPhone & Android

2005-05-25, 10:44 PM	#7
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	Absolutely agree. There seems to be a lot people looking for loopholes and escape routes instead of spending their energy more wisely on finding ways to work within the law. Of course, I think you know how I feel. They'll never take me alive. I've been digging a 'spider hole' in my backyard under the shed all week. __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2005-05-25, 10:49 PM	#8
Cleo Subversive filth of the hedonistic decadent West Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 27,936	Personally I think the best advice is to consult with a lawyer. Do we really need a board dealing with a legal matter full of hysterical webmasters interpreting the law? __________________ Free Rides on Uber and Lyft Uber Car: uberTzTerri Lyft Car: TZ896289

2005-05-25, 10:55 PM	#9
cd34 a.k.a. Sparky Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: West Palm Beach, FL, USA Posts: 2,396	more adviews. I think there could be some valuable gems of wisdom in there. __________________ SnapReplay.com a different way to share photos - iPhone & Android

2005-05-25, 11:01 PM	#10
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	In eigth grade, in metal shop, I printed cards that read 'Mark D*Mers - Attorney at Law'. Does that count? My legal expertise extends to the limit of knowing that the age of consent in NY state is 17. __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2005-05-25, 11:46 PM	#12
chilihost Look at 'em. Watchin' my TV. Sittin on my couch. You better not be in my ass groove! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 465	I am not looking for loopholes, I am just trying to protect my own business So far, the comments I have received are from people not in the USA who are asking about moving their hosting just in case. cheers, Luke __________________ HunkMoney+BritishBucks+LatinoBucks=50+ gay sites!

2005-05-25, 11:59 PM	#13
Wazza I'm a jaded evil bastard, I wouldn't piss on myself if I was on fire... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 808	If you can negotiate a "US comparable" price I'm sure you'll get plenty of interest from us foreigners Hint: If you're a hosting company don't be shy to tell us if your DC is outside of the US \|viking\| __________________ I sale Internet My sites have no traffic and no PR - let's trade - PM me

2005-05-26, 12:02 AM	#15
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	I think there will be some moves in the next while as webmasters outside the US move their hosting away from physically located in the US. However, webmasters in the US, or those webmasters from outside the US who have formed a US company for purposes of processing and such are pretty much screwed anyway, so moving stuff to the moon probably wouldn't help. Alex

2005-05-26, 12:10 AM	#16
Wazza I'm a jaded evil bastard, I wouldn't piss on myself if I was on fire... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 808	This relates to non US based persons and entities As I read it - entities formed within the US for the sole purpose of providing access to US based 3rd party billing would not be subject to the regulation (as they don't actually own / provide anything 2257able) and neither would the company / individual who ultimately owns that entity (as expressly excluded by the regs) BTW IANAL __________________ I sale Internet My sites have no traffic and no PR - let's trade - PM me

2005-05-26, 03:53 AM	#17
kane A woman is like beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 56	the way I understand it is that it doesn't matter where you live or where you host ( although that is some of it ) it's all about who you are doing biz with. For example if you are in europe and host in europe but are doing biz with US based companies you must comply to the law in order to do that biz. Now will they be able to force you to comply? that's a different story, but I supposed they could force a sponser to not pay you until you gave proof of your compliance. That is, at least, how I understand it. Since i'm in the US, host in the US and most of my sponsers are in the US I haven't really been looking too much into this. I'm not going to try to hide, if there is no injunction and/or changes to the law, I'll comply, it'll suck, but I'll do it. __________________ Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files

2005-05-29, 03:42 PM	#18
digart Internet! Is that thing still around? Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Central America Posts: 3	Linking issues and a free graphic that explains my opinion We will see what happens when the law goes in affect. Links change, computers don't work perfectly and one person in one place might see something completely different on his computer than another. I support the efforts of the free speech group just can't afford membership. ACLU is already taking on UTAH. I made a graphic use it freely off your bandwidth If you want to link to my site(s) in exchange for the graphic thats up to you. http://www.eroticdvd.com/SEXUALLY_EX...E_PAINTING.gif I personally think a link to the info for 2257 is enough for any official trying to enforce a law that will be changed in the future anyway. The worst part of the law in my opinion is giving the address to adult webmasters so they can be subjected to the same shit that the strip clubs in some places have to go through. Doesn't really matter who's doing it just the fact that it can be done at all!" PS digart speaks from my mouth. __________________ digart Last edited by digart; 2005-05-29 at 03:56 PM.. Reason: display looked not complete to graphic I offered for free

2005-05-30, 02:48 AM	#19
tickler If there is nobody out there, that's a lot of real estate going to waste! Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,177	Even placement of the 2257 info may be difficult if you have stuff on free hosts. They specifically say it has to be either in the domain root as in mydomain.com/2257.htm or the sub-domain root as in galleries.mydomain.com/2257.htm. A lot of free hosts are setup as freehost.com/yoursite/2257.htm __________________ Latina Twins, Solo, NN, Hardcore Latin Teen Cash

2005-05-30, 09:18 AM	#20
ArtWilliams You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 6,244	I actually a moral person and I do believe in right and wrong, however .... If you look at any law in a pragmatic fashion and in the extreme, you have to ask yourself what can they do to me? The authorities can: 1 arrest me 2 take my property 3 stop my income flow 4 a combo of 1, 2 and 3 So ask yourself, A Of what country am I a citizen? B. Where do I reside? C. Where is my server? D. Do I visit the US often? E. From what country do I earn my income? Add some probabilty that the above may actually happen wrt 2257 and you can then start to assess your risk. My thoughts. -- art