Beer vendor liable for drunk driver

[Torn Rose]

yeah that's right, they watched their daughter die in front of them and the first thought to come to their mind was how much they was going to make.

Last I heard on this story (about a year and half ago) the only thing they did besides give Purdue University a scholarship in their daughters name was bury her, the news even had stories on this that no lawsuit against the bartender or the bar was ever filed. (Up to that time)

So yeah, money was the motivator there.

[dareutwo]

selena - so you're saying I can drink a 12 pack in my house, get 1 beer at your place, and you're liable in IN?
I realize that giving a guy 8 shots and a beer was completely stupid. IQ of 4 would have figure that one out.
Why not charge the bartender and NOT the establishment.. besides the deep pockets factor?

I worked in bars for years, got cabs for hundreds of people. (3-20 per night)

Surprisingly MN may be ahead of the curve on this one, by figuring out the real story.. ie, drinks from home or outside.

ecchi - If one of my kids was killed, I don't think money would be on my To Do list

Was this a big town or a small one - because there is a difference?
Not that the girl died, but in the mentality of the residents. Where we now live, there is no taxi service, we're lucky to have plumbing.

[Torn Rose]

Lafayette is a “city” of about 65,000, add West Lafayette and that brings the area to about 90,000 and add Purdue it would be over 110,000.

It happen less then 3 miles from where we lived at the time, they have a dual cross memorial on the side of the road honoring the couple killed which we saw almost every single day since it is on a main route.

Charges were brought against the bar and bartender, the bartender got probation for a year and lost his license to serve alcohol; the bar was fined but I think the fine was under $20,000.

The police did do an investigation on this, they did not just assume this was from at a local bar and went and busted balls, they fallowed his CC charges and went from there, and from what I remember his card said he went to a few stores and then went the bar.

Had it been from sitting at home drinking and then grabbing 1 shot at a bar I am pretty confident nothing would have been said in regards to the bar because as the point I am trying to make, it is the intent of the law.

This story all took place over close to 2- 3 years from start to last I heard about it and as I said, it made HUGE news; I even recall seeing it on CNN a few times at its height.

[Torn Rose]

Originally Posted by dareutwo

selena - so you're saying I can drink a 12 pack in my house, get 1 beer at your place, and you're liable in IN?

(Sorry for jumping in Selena)

Yes she *CAN* be, but WILL she be?

I doubt it, since again, that is not the intent of the law. You would have to prove she knew you were drunk when she served you that one beer and that is the issue since she can prove she served you only 1 beer.

But how easy would it be to prove she didn't know you were drunk when she serves you 8 shots with that beer in 23 mins?

[dareutwo]

Torn - cool.. so the intent is actually the intent, and not the outcome.

[ecchi]

RE: - "they watched their daughter die in front of them and the first thought to come to their mind was how much they was going to make." Think for a minute, if you were in their position what would you want? If someone I loved died I would want justice, or revenge. I would want to see them punished. I would want to see them go to jail for a long time, I might even want to see them go to the chair. I would be badgering the police and the DPP (or DA) for prosecution. If the police failed to act I would probably start a private criminal case against them. But it would be a criminal case, not a civil one. I would want them punished, sent to jail, I would not be after making a bit out of the death. The moment you sue for money you are saying "I care for money more than I care for my daughter". Personally I have every sympathy for someone who looses a loved one, right up until they start profiteering from it. At that point they become as bad as the person who did the killing.

[Toni KatVixen]

Originally Posted by ecchi

RE: - "they watched their daughter die in front of them and the first thought to come to their mind was how much they was going to make." Think for a minute, if you were in their position what would you want? If someone I loved died I would want justice, or revenge. I would want to see them punished. I would want to see them go to jail for a long time, I might even want to see them go to the chair. I would be badgering the police and the DPP (or DA) for prosecution. If the police failed to act I would probably start a private criminal case against them. But it would be a criminal case, not a civil one. I would want them punished, sent to jail, I would not be after making a bit out of the death. The moment you sue for money you are saying "I care for money more than I care for my daughter". Personally I have every sympathy for someone who looses a loved one, right up until they start profiteering from it. At that point they become as bad as the person who did the killing.

That is the what you don't get, it is criminal NOT civil.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Torn

(Sorry for jumping in Selena)

Yes she *CAN* be, but WILL she be?

I doubt it, since again, that is not the intent of the law. You would have to prove she knew you were drunk when she served you that one beer and that is the issue since she can prove she served you only 1 beer.

But how easy would it be to prove she didn't know you were drunk when she serves you 8 shots with that beer in 23 mins?

Actually, I'm glad you did, Torn. You are articulating much better than I am on this topic.

As he said, dareutwo, yes, I can be. As well as the bar can be. They would of course go more heavily after the establishment than me, simply, because of the depth of the pockets, as you say.

If we want to go back to Linkster's post and responsiblity, then I as a bartender have some. I also have a choice. If I think you don't need any more to drink, I don't serve you. It's that simple. So if I was the bartender in Torn's example, I would have made a horrid choice. Just because you walk in a bar and want a drink doesn't mean you get one.

All of this is a reason that...back when I worked weekend nights...I made sure I gave last call a good hour before any place close around. That way I didn't have to deal with their leftover drunks, or any problems that might stem from it.

For the record, I live in a very small town. There is not a taxi company in my entire county. So that also contributes to my awareness of what I do behind the bar. It's not as simple as "call them a taxi."

I also lost a very good buddy out of our bar. He left on his bike...not even close to drunk, but having had a few...at the same time another regular patron did. About a mile out of town, the one guy went to pass a couple cars on a double yellow line at the same time as my friend went to make a left hand turn off the highway. He died at the scene, and the bar (the one I work/ed at) got sued by the heirs. Thank God I was not working that night. Though I did buy my buddy his last beer.

That, more than anything else, used to keep me up at night, after I had locked the doors and went home....hoping all the people I served that night made it home without harming themselves or another. Just the rememberance of that night, and what it felt like.

[RawAlex]

I know this thread sort of faded onto page two, but I found something today checking around (found this on Jayski, but it is taken from somewhere else)

Las Vegas MS stops selling alcohol before the end of the race: For the first time in track history, Las Vegas Motor Speedway stopped selling alcohol before the end of Saturday's NASCAR Busch race and will do the same before today's Nextel Cup race ends. Las Vegas is believed to be among the first NASCAR-sanctioned tracks to ban alcohol sales. Infineon Raceway has cut alcohol sales before the end of the Cup race the last five years. Recent events, including a $105 million court verdict, could lead more tracks to limit when fans purchase alcohol. A Lowe's Motor Speedway spokesperson said Saturday that track officials have discussed stopping alcohol sales at a certain point but have not made a decision. Saturday, Las Vegas Motor Speedway alerted fans that it would stop alcohol sales after lap 170 of the 200-lap Busch series race. The track is expected to cut alcohol sales around lap 225 in today's 267-lap race. Cutting alcohol sales before an event ends has become common in other professional sports but not in racing. Last month, the NBA announced that it would prohibit the sale of alcohol in the fourth quarter, restrict the size of drinks to 24 ounces and limit fans to two drinks. The changes came in response to the brawl last November between Detroit fans and members of the Indiana Pacers. While that fight gained more publicity, a New Jersey court case also is causing sports franchises and beverage vendors to reexamine their policies. A State Superior Court judge upheld a $105 million verdict on March 4 against a Giants Stadium concessionaire for selling beer to a drunken football fan who later caused an accident, leaving a girl paralyzed. The company, Aramark, plans to appeal the verdict.(News and Record)(3-13-2005)

I guess the question is this: How long before alcohol is in the same league as smokes, restricted as all get out?

Local news this weekend reports that 80% of all "trauma" emergency cases that a local hospital treats are as a result of traffic accidents involving drunk drivers.

Like smoking, when will someone figure out the costs are too high, because people are not responsible for thier own actions?

Alex

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I know this thread sort of faded onto page two, but I found something today checking around (found this on Jayski, but it is taken from somewhere else)



I guess the question is this: How long before alcohol is in the same league as smokes, restricted as all get out?

Local news this weekend reports that 80% of all "trauma" emergency cases that a local hospital treats are as a result of traffic accidents involving drunk drivers.

Like smoking, when will someone figure out the costs are too high, because people are not responsible for thier own actions?

Alex

US lawyers and politicians quit smoking and then went after that industry. Lawyers, lobbiest and politicians still drink a lot of booze. You don't expect them to write legislation that would force them to be responsible do you?

[zack2004]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

US lawyers and politicians quit smoking and then went after that industry. Lawyers, lobbiest and politicians still drink a lot of booze. You don't expect them to write legislation that would force them to be responsible do you?

How can you say that when we have the best politicians money can buy?