Affiliate Programs & Check Cutting/Processing Fees

[Mayor_PC]

Originally Posted by Greenie

WOW! I'm just as shocked at MrYum.

I'm pulling my links - there's no need to publicly post someone's private information like that (which I have edited out)

I don't think that fair, he made an accusation that he was doing poorly and I called him on the lie. Is this the kind of board that allows lies to go unchallenged? His stats showed nothing of a personal nature, not URL's no names, no domain, nothing other than the fact his traffic stayed the same and his ratios got BETTER. The opposite of what he claimed.

[Greenguy]

You could have posted his ratios without the actual dollar amounts.

[Jim]

Mayor
Getting back on track and not mentioning the "posting of personal information" thing, some people have real problems using epassporte. Just because you want to work with them doesn't mean everyone else does. Why would you punish these people with a $5/check penalty?

[Mayor_PC]

?!? That's absurd but I'll happily re-post minus the dollar amount but the amount of traffic divided by the ratio multiplied by our average payout will give that anyway. Not posting his traffic would lead a person to believe that perhaps I was not giving the whole picture or his traffic was way down the last 3 months when it was STABLE. Either way, I am not going to post his numbers. Fact is he lied and I'll leave it at that.

His comments were a blatant lie and I wanted to defend my company. We work our asses off to make sure we have the best converting sites around period. You can see the pride we take in that when you go to Mayor's Money and brag that YOU even found we convert better than any other program.


I took it personally. I always do, because I pour everything into this company to make it what it is and when someone whom I've gone out of my way to take care of takes a cheap shot I get angry. I am sure you would too judging by the comment about pulling our links. Sad that you'd take the side of a newb liar over someone you've been doing business with since 1997.

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

You did call me "names"(was a pretty classy guy) also, you claimed you were doing poorly with mayors money in recent months when the real numbers state otherwise. If want to lie about your ratios with me I am going to call you on it. It has nothing to do with class, people should know the truth. As for being close to calling me names, go ahead. It doesn't change the facts. You were trying to sound all big and tough and I called you on your bullshit.

Fact is virtually EVERYONE has been doing great with Mayor's Money and that's why we STOPPED letting just anyone sign-up. I am keeping the program tight so that people keep enjoying the ratios we have by making the program invite only. If you want to give up your spot, let me know I have plenty of people waiting to take it.

Oh please...going to get into semantics huh...'was' a classy guy...wtf. Didn't say you weren't anymore...geez, you're a sensitive lil fella aren't ya.

Didn't lie about my numbers at all...they suck. The fact that they suck less now, than they did last summer doesn't mean they don't suck.

Big and tough...again, please get a grip...what I posted was far from trying to sound big and tough. It was a simple, non threatening statement of MY perception and you waltz in here, post my personal stats and proceed to call me a liar numerous times.

I was going to hit you up on ICQ to see if we could talk about this like adults before I yank my tiny amounts of traffic. Given your post, it's pretty clear you don't give a crap and would rather get into a piss fest on the board.

And now I see that you've decided to call me a liar a couple more times. I'm fuckin floored here Mayor...I honestly thought you were a pretty cool guy. We've spoken a few times on ICQ...and now...THIS

Fuck it...I can't work with someone who calls me a liar in a public forum. Go ahead and give up that spot to someone else Mayor...feel fuckin free. I'll have your links down by later this evening. Oh, and yea...charge me the $5 and send a check for whatever payments are owed at this point.

Of all the programs, you were about the last one I would have expected to post shit like that...and it's not just the personal stats. I take great offense to being called a liar...nothing could be farther from the truth.

[Mayor_PC]

Originally Posted by Jim

Mayor
Getting back on track and not mentioning the "posting of personal information" thing, some people have real problems using epassporte. Just because you want to work with them doesn't mean everyone else does. Why would you punish these people with a $5/check penalty?

It's not punishment, it's a fee and it's a choice. If someone has real issues with it, they can talk to me. We're working on ACH push as well but that's going to take some time.

[Useless]

I didn't know that Pimp Dawg bought Mayor's Money.

Links pulled. There goes that 259 hits per year.

[Mayor_PC]

Funny Mr Yum, it's OK for you to say my program wasn't converting well for you in recent months but when I defend myself and proove you're lying about that I am suddenly I am the asshole? =

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Jim gave me some rough numbers from the old Ultra Cash days.

1500 checks

Supplies: $200 (very rough figure, as he has no idea what the supplies actually cost back then)
Payroll: $200 (one employee did them in an 8 hour day)
Postage: $600 (based on US mailings - add $0.10 - $0.50 per check for foreign webmasters)

So $1000 for 1500 checks which is $0.67/check.

And remember, this was 8 years ago - new technology & programs have to make it even easier now.

I don't know how that company ran their office, but you might need to figure in the salary (or part of) for the employee who took care of these things. 1500 Checks per period sounds like it might keep somebody pretty busy, even if it's just dealing with papercuts from licking so many envelopes.

It's my understanding that both Prodigy and Taboo check writing services charge the program $3-3.50/checks.
note: Prodigy may or may not be in business still due to the cohf circumstances, and Taboo will reduce their fees based on volume

The banking industry is not what it was 8 years ago. Nowadays they too punish people for paper checks with high fees. A check cashed on my business account costs me $1.75

There are genuinely good arguments for using a third party- timely payments rather than waiting on forgetful small program owners being the first that comes to mind. However, the program should account for these fees (or any parts beyond reasonable) in their numbers before deciding what % or pps amount to offer.

[[BV]]

FYI:
CCBill charges .39 cents
Paycom/Epoch charges $2.00

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

?!? That's absurd but I'll happily re-post minus the dollar amount but the amount of traffic divided by the ratio multiplied by our average payout will give that anyway..

Like I said, if would have been ok if you posted ONLY the ratios & not the dollar amounts & total clicks. That information is no one business but yours & his.

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

...You can see the pride we take in that when you go to Mayor's Money and brag that YOU even found we convert better than any other program..

I've been meaning to suggest to Wizzo for the last 8 months that you guys might want to pull down the November 2005 stats totals.

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

...I am sure you would too judging by the comment about pulling our links. Sad that you'd take the side of a newb liar over someone you've been doing business with since 1997.

I'm not taking the side of a "newb liar". I'm taking the side of a friend & a valued member of this board that's been working in this business since 2000.

***

Like I said in my 1st post, I was thinking that the $2 fee that most places charge was a little high & I was going to start a thread on the topic sometime this week when I had some free time. But the email about the $5 fee I got this morning made me think that I should start the thread today. It was not meant as a personal attack on your company, just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I do plan to call out some other sponsors on their fees when I get a chance, because I have a really hard time believing that it costs a company $2/check (let alone $5)

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

?!? That's absurd but I'll happily re-post minus the dollar amount but the amount of traffic divided by the ratio multiplied by our average payout will give that anyway.

Posting someones traffic total & their conv. ratio is the same as posting how much money they make.


Just the ratios would have been sufficient to prove Mr. Yum was lying. But I can't tell if he was because GreenGuy edited the post and didn't leave just the ratios.

So there is no way for me to know.

So what was his ratio during these recent months?

Was it bad or good?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I don't know how that company ran their office, but you might need to figure in the salary (or part of) for the employee who took care of these things. 1500 Checks per period sounds like it might keep somebody pretty busy, even if it's just dealing with papercuts from licking so many envelopes....

That's what the $200 Employee total was - he remembers it took a day or so (sometimes more, sometimes less) for his employee to print the checks, stuff the ednvelopes & run them thru the postage machine (no licking of enveloped for Jim's employees - lol)

So even if it took that emplyee 2 days to complete the task, you only at $0.80/check.

[emmanuelle]

duh- how did I block that line out?

$200 to stuff envelopes for a day- sounds like one of those jobs offered in the back of tabloids

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Greenie

That's what the $200 Employee total was - he remembers it took a day or so (sometimes more, sometimes less) for his employee to print the checks, stuff the ednvelopes & run them thru the postage machine (no licking of enveloped for Jim's employees - lol)

So even if it took that emplyee 2 days to complete the task, you only at $0.80/check.

Nah...only took a day. Sparky would send me a quickbooks file, I would import it, throw the checks in a BIG printer and click print Susy only had to stuff the envelopes and the postage machine took care of the rest. Of course, that $200 is high by today's standards. We paid the secretary $1k/week for filtering my email and stuffing evenlopes

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Jim

We paid the secretary $1k/week for filtering my email and stuffing evenlopes

WOW! Did she wear knee pads?

[Mayor_PC]

Had a lengthy chat with Mr Yum, something that we both could have benefited from prior to posting.

Fact is, we both made some mistakes. I agree, that posting his $$ was out of line and frankly out of character for me. I feel a little backed into a corner on this $5 check thing and reading his post really set me off. In his defense, he's no liar, he had some terrible months back in July/Aug last year. But in my defense, the last several months have been MUCH better.

I can discuss the merits and downsides of checks endlessly but lets face it, I'm not locking any one's money up. I am providing options and listening to suggestions. So far everyone seems caught up in the amount, not the principle.

How else do you get people off checks? They are not a good way to deliver funds. They are constantly lost or stolen, washed and illegally re-deposited for tens of thousands, misplaced, etc. . . . With epass (even though it initially costs more for me to send) it saves a lot of problems in the back end.

That is why I offered (at my cost) to create an epass account for ANYONE who needs one.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

How else do you get people off checks?

Direct transfer to their bank account? Which is exactly what I'd have to do to get my money from ePass.

[mr.sexbankroll]

Not to toot my own horn, but i can't resist.

Sexbankroll doesn't charge a check processing fee!



R

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

...How else do you get people off checks? They are not a good way to deliver funds. They are constantly lost or stolen, washed and illegally re-deposited for tens of thousands, misplaced, etc. . . . With epass (even though it initially costs more for me to send) it saves a lot of problems in the back end...

So why pass those fees along to someone like me, who's in 10 years of business has only had to get one check replaced? (for those of you that care, I shredded it by mistake )

Why not cut checks for a reasonable fee ($1) and then charge $5 or $10 for replacement checks?

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

Had a lengthy chat with Mr Yum, something that we both could have benefited from prior to posting.

Fact is, we both made some mistakes. I agree, that posting his $$ was out of line and frankly out of character for me. I feel a little backed into a corner on this $5 check thing and reading his post really set me off. In his defense, he's no liar, he had some terrible months back in July/Aug last year. But in my defense, the last several months have been MUCH better.

I can discuss the merits and downsides of checks endlessly but lets face it, I'm not locking any one's money up. I am providing options and listening to suggestions. So far everyone seems caught up in the amount, not the principle.

How else do you get people off checks? They are not a good way to deliver funds. They are constantly lost or stolen, washed and illegally re-deposited for tens of thousands, misplaced, etc. . . . With epass (even though it initially costs more for me to send) it saves a lot of problems in the back end.

That is why I offered (at my cost) to create an epass account for ANYONE who needs one.

Glad we had that chat Mayor.

For any part I played in jacking this thread from its intent, my apologies. We all know numbers fluctuate with programs and some affiliates do better than others...it's the nature of this business. I really didn't mean for my post to denigrate the program or kick in Mayors program protection mode.

As to the checks issue, I still think $5 is exhorbidant...that's my perception. I understand your goal is to get people off checks, but the reality is a lot of folks still prefer checks...myself included. For one thing, it makes revenue tracking on my end easier.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by mr.sexbankroll

...Sexbankroll doesn't charge a check processing fee!

You know, it might be because the revshare checks are always odd numbers, but most of the PPS sponsors eat all the fees, because the checks are usually nice round numbers where you can tell exactly how many signups you got in that period.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Greenie

...then charge $5 or $10 for replacement checks?

OR... why even bother issuing a replacement check at all.

I had a Google AdSense check that got lost in the mail. When I notified them, they put stop payment on the check and credited the amount back to my account. It got included with payout at the end of the next pay period.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Toby

OR... why even bother issuing a replacement check at all.

I had a Google AdSense check that got lost in the mail. When I notified them, they put stop payment on the check and credited the amount back to my account. It got included with payout at the end of the next pay period.

Yup - that'd work as well. Of course, there might be a fee for putting the stop payment on the check, but I'm sure the webmaster would not mind having that fee taken out.

[[BV]]

Stop Payment fees are way more than $10.00, (maybe 3x that) and even if the sponsor issues another check or adds it to your next check, he still has to stop payment on the original, otherwise it could show up later and get cashed and he would get fucked.