Affiliate Programs & Check Cutting/Processing Fees

[Greenguy]

This question crossed my mind over the holidays & I was going to start a thread on it sometime this week, but today I got an email from Mayor's Money that made me think I was onto something.

A lot of affiliate programs pass along the cost of sending payments to the webmaster - whether it's checks (mail & express delivery) or wires or ePassporte or whatever.

I can see the cost of a wire being passed onto the webmaster, as that fee is usually pretty high.

I can see the cost of the express delivery (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) being passed onto the webmaster, as the shipping costs are high.

But is there really a need for a $2 fee for ePassport or a check sent via the US Mail?

ePassporte charges $0.25/transaction. I assume some data has to be imported when the payouts are sent & there is a cost for that employee performing the task, but $2 a transaction?

Jim's going to dig up some info on checks for me, but I can't see where it costs $2/check to have someone print it up & mail it...let alone the $5 that Mayor's Money is now going to charge me!

I'd love to hear from some sponsors that send out checks as well as some numbers - number of checks cut, cost of supplies, the employee's payroll costs, time spent on checks, etc. and, most importantly, the cost per check.

[Ramster]

$5? Wow.

I think 25 cents is for regular people to send money a few times a day being the limit. Mass sending cost me $1.00 after 5 transfers in 1 day. Now the $2 fee is likely added to cover the costs of a check writing company to do payroll and payouts and that should NOT be passed onto the affiliate IMO.

I'd be interested in hearing this too.

The processing fees being charged by JuggCash sometimes is Very weird. $100 in sales and I make $55 then the next time $100 and I make $40 with no chargebacks. Very weird.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Ramster

...The processing fees being charged by JuggCash sometimes is Very weird. $100 in sales and I make $55 then the next time $100 and I make $40 with no chargebacks. Very weird.

I bitched about that one in the NATS thread - I figured it to be a 24% "processing fee" that comes off the top, so you end up getting 38% from a 50/50 program.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I bitched about that one in the NATS thread - I figured it to be a 24% "processing fee" that comes off the top, so you end up getting 38% from a 50/50 program.

Yet another version of the shave.

[Flymaster]

For business account every transaction in Epassporte is cost 2 USD. It's bad, but it exists. May be it is conditioned existing of account
I think, partnership programms must pay full sum for adverts without any comission.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Flymaster

For business account every transaction in Epassporte is cost 2 USD. It's bad, but it exists. May be it is conditioned existing of account
I think, partnership programms must pay full sum for adverts without any comission.

Mayor's Money also advised people to get an ePassporte account, saying "Epassporte payments will be completely free" so I have no idea if they have a special arrangement with ePassporte or if they're eating the costs.

[Greenguy]

Jim gave me some rough numbers from the old Ultra Cash days.

1500 checks

Supplies: $200 (very rough figure, as he has no idea what the supplies actually cost back then)
Payroll: $200 (one employee did them in an 8 hour day)
Postage: $600 (based on US mailings - add $0.10 - $0.50 per check for foreign webmasters)

So $1000 for 1500 checks which is $0.67/check.

And remember, this was 8 years ago - new technology & programs have to make it even easier now.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Jim gave me some rough numbers from the old Ultra Cash days.

1500 checks

Supplies: $200 (very rough figure, as he has no idea what the supplies actually cost back then)
Payroll: $200 (one employee did them in an 8 hour day)
Postage: $600 (based on US mailings - add $0.10 - $0.50 per check for foreign webmasters)

So $1000 for 1500 checks which is $0.67/check.

And remember, this was 8 years ago - new technology & programs have to make it even easier now.

I don't know how that company ran their office, but you might need to figure in the salary (or part of) for the employee who took care of these things. 1500 Checks per period sounds like it might keep somebody pretty busy, even if it's just dealing with papercuts from licking so many envelopes.

It's my understanding that both Prodigy and Taboo check writing services charge the program $3-3.50/checks.
note: Prodigy may or may not be in business still due to the cohf circumstances, and Taboo will reduce their fees based on volume

The banking industry is not what it was 8 years ago. Nowadays they too punish people for paper checks with high fees. A check cashed on my business account costs me $1.75

There are genuinely good arguments for using a third party- timely payments rather than waiting on forgetful small program owners being the first that comes to mind. However, the program should account for these fees (or any parts beyond reasonable) in their numbers before deciding what % or pps amount to offer.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I don't know how that company ran their office, but you might need to figure in the salary (or part of) for the employee who took care of these things. 1500 Checks per period sounds like it might keep somebody pretty busy, even if it's just dealing with papercuts from licking so many envelopes....

That's what the $200 Employee total was - he remembers it took a day or so (sometimes more, sometimes less) for his employee to print the checks, stuff the ednvelopes & run them thru the postage machine (no licking of enveloped for Jim's employees - lol)

So even if it took that emplyee 2 days to complete the task, you only at $0.80/check.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Greenie

That's what the $200 Employee total was - he remembers it took a day or so (sometimes more, sometimes less) for his employee to print the checks, stuff the ednvelopes & run them thru the postage machine (no licking of enveloped for Jim's employees - lol)

So even if it took that emplyee 2 days to complete the task, you only at $0.80/check.

Nah...only took a day. Sparky would send me a quickbooks file, I would import it, throw the checks in a BIG printer and click print Susy only had to stuff the envelopes and the postage machine took care of the rest. Of course, that $200 is high by today's standards. We paid the secretary $1k/week for filtering my email and stuffing evenlopes

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Jim

We paid the secretary $1k/week for filtering my email and stuffing evenlopes

WOW! Did she wear knee pads?

[SaucyPanties]

I know this is going off subject but it is like here in the UK, you purchase an item, go to check-out and we have 17.5% vat added. However, many online companies do not add the 17.5% until after they have added the postage on so were also paying 17.5% on the postage charge

[Toby]

Originally Posted by SaucyPanties

...many online companies do not add the 17.5% until after they have added the postage on so were also paying 17.5% on the postage charge

I'm not sure what the law is in the UK re: VAT, but here in the US it varies by State whether or not the shipping should be included when calculating sales tax.

[Keyser Soze]

There is a $2 fee to send transfers from business account.

My personal experience is that some programs pass it on to the webmaster others don't.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

There is a $2 fee to send transfers from business account...

Isn't that a little high when you consider that:
1 - a pier to pier transfer is only $0.25
2 - the amount of transactions that an affiliate program would do in each pay period would justify a discount due to the large volume

[Jim]

To me, the money it costs to send a check just seems that it should be the cost of doing business. I have to wonder with a US business, is the money both withheld from the webmaster and then written off as a business expense, tax time?

I guess I can see a reason for a program using a 3rd party service. We did that in the beginning with UltraCash. I forgot the cost but I think it might have been $3.50/check. But even then, we ate the cost. We only stopped using the company because they printed the wrong account number on a check run. Nothing like having the rumor of bouncing checks going around when the check says, "Refer to Maker". Good tip..."Refer to Maker", some problem other than bounced check. "NSF", bounced check.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by Jim

I forgot the cost but I think it might have been $3.50/check.

Actually we generally use about a $5.00 figure now in systems design costing. The costs you mentioned plus, a ton more like ink/toner, maintenance. hardware depreciation, archiving/storage, reconciliation, etc.

[Tommy]

anyone pay your bills with online checking

thats completly free and you dont even have to pay for a stamp

I was a little disapointed with Mayors Money
i just spent some time premoting them
if I would have known that I wouldnt have bothered

[Cleo]

Originally Posted by Tommy

anyone pay your bills with online checking

Been paying for just about everything using BofA's online bill payment for years now. I think I wrote less then ten checks in the last year.

If it wasn't for checks coming in the mail from sponsors then I wouldn't even need to go by the bank anymore.

[MrYum]

Yep, I use online bill pay for both corp and personal...works great. I do pay a flat monthly fee, but it sure as hell doesn't work out to $5 check.

I was very surprised to see that mail from Mayor's as well. The cost of cutting checks to pay vendors or affiliates in this case, should be part of the cost of doing business. No way in hell could it get close to $5/check.

Always thought Mayor was a pretty classy guy in the biz, but between this and the poor numbers I've seen with them in recent months...don't think I'll be building anything new for that program

[Mayor_PC]

Originally Posted by MrYum

Yep, I use online bill pay for both corp and personal...works great. I do pay a flat monthly fee, but it sure as hell doesn't work out to $5 check.

I was very surprised to see that mail from Mayor's as well. The cost of cutting checks to pay vendors or affiliates in this case, should be part of the cost of doing business. No way in hell could it get close to $5/check.

Always thought Mayor was a pretty classy guy in the biz, but between this and the poor numbers I've seen with them in recent months...don't think I'll be building anything new for that program

If you're going to Lie and say your numbers are falling I'll post the truth

(actual numbers & dollar amounts removed by greenguy)


Seems to me your numbers have gotten better but based on your volume I understand why $5 would hurt you. Why don't you accept my offer to create you an epassporte for free?

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

If you're going to Lie and say your numbers are falling I'll post the truth

(actual numbers & dollar amounts removed by greenguy)

Seems to me your numbers have gotten better but based on your volume I understand why $5 would hurt you. Why don't you accept my offer to create you an epassporte for free?

Well, so much for my comment about you being a classy guy. Mayor, I'm very disappointed that you would post my personal stats in a public thread. That my friend is not cool at all.

Firstly, you didn't go back far enough...there was a time numbers with your program were MUCH better than the existing stats. You also didn't pick up the 1:10000 numbers from last summer there big fella. Gee, wonder why I'm not sending you much traffic...duh.

Yanno Mayor, my post was in no way maligning your program...simply stating that I don't see good numbers anymore, so doubtful I'll build more for you...in light of this new check fee.

NOW, you come in here and do something as classless as you just did. I'm going to go have some coffee and a smoke, and see if I cool off a bit. Otherwise, I suspect I'll be yanking every fucking link I've got to you. Not cool at all Mayor...NOT AT ALL

Oh, and I already have an epass account...thanks anyway. Gawd, I'm SO fucking close to calling you names man...and I thought you were a classy guy...my mistake.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Tommy

anyone pay your bills with online checking

thats completly free and you dont even have to pay for a stamp...

Great point Tommy!

The initial setup might be a pain in the ass, but once that was done & you had all the affiliates in there in the same order as the spreadsheet of names & amounts, all you have to do is have someone enter the totals & press a button.

[Mayor_PC]

Basicly it comes down to this:

Checks are an archaic throw back from last century. I am attempting to make it less appealing to get a check and more appealing to get your money instantly with Epassporte. Hell I am even paying for your new Epassporte account and I will set it up for you. If you don't like getting your money instantly then you may CHOOSE to pay $5 and get a check.

If someone has a real seroius issue with a paying $5 per check, of course I'll work with them. But I prefer to use the method of payment that deliveres the money the most efficiently. I am HAPPY to pay the epass fees to do this because it's more reliable and instant.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

Basicly it comes down to this:

Checks are an archaic throw back from last century. I am attempting to make it less appealing to get a check and more appealing to get your money instantly with Epassporte. Hell I am even paying for your new Epassporte account and I will set it up for you. If you don't like getting your money instantly then you may CHOOSE to pay $5 and get a check.

If someone has a real seroius issue with a paying $5 per check, of course I'll work with them. But I prefer to use the method of payment that deliveres the money the most efficiently. I am HAPPY to pay the epass fees to do this because it's more reliable and instant.

While checks may be archaic to some, they are just fine to others.

And it's not like you're doing us a favor - you're basically saying that unless we use ePassporte, we have to pay you a fee so that you pay us, and that's wrong (both the fee & being forced to use a certain payment method)

We are independent contractors of yours. We all get 1099's at the end of the year. I can not think of any other business that charges people/companies a fee to get their money (and a very high fee at that)

Tell me this: will you still send a US based independent contractor a 1099 if they get paid via an offshore ePassport account?