Affiliate Programs & Check Cutting/Processing Fees

[Mayor_PC]

I never charge for stolen/damaged replacement checks. Only lost/misplaced. It's not about the money, it's about the cost in time and recources.

All this has brought a new option forward. Don't know if it should have it's own thread. I'll leave that to the board owners to decide.

I am adding a second check option called "big check" so you can still get a check for free. Just select big check and set your min payout to 500 or 1000. If you insist on getting smaller checks, you'll have to pay the $5. Or you can get it via epass for free.

[DangerDave]

If only the same attitude came from sponsors/programs when the shoe was on the other foot.

We had a cheque(from a major program(that uses NATS!)) bounce the other day and it has cost us a huge amouint in both fees and lost reputation at our bank where the cashing of "foreign" cheques is always an issue.

So far we have had 30 days of fucking around, and no cash, from them(Sponsor). IMO that is unacceptable..

DD

_______________________________
No Nats - Find programs that DON'T use NATS
Old Dollars - Selling older women via CCBill for longer than NATS has been around

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

If only the same attitude came from sponsors/programs when the shoe was on the other foot.

We had a cheque(from a major program(that uses NATS!)) bounce the other day and it has cost us a huge amouint in both fees and lost reputation at our bank where the cashing of "foreign" cheques is always an issue.

So far we have had 30 days of fucking around, and no cash, from them(Sponsor). IMO that is unacceptable..

DD

Fuck Yeah! I've never lost a cheque, but had a few bounce and it's funny how it's always "the bank screwed up" as the standard excuse.
In the early days I had to change banks because my original bank slapped a 30 day hold on all $US cheques deposited since 3 small cheques bounced and one of them was a replacement checque for one that bounced earlier. I would bet that if any of those outfits were still around they'd be charging for cheques.
The whole idea of charging someone to pay them what is owed is just plain greed. And the surest way to fuck up a business in a competitive market is to piss off your salesmen, without them you are toast.

[GonZo]

Dont be a "Wiley Coyote"

beep beep

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

...I am adding a second check option called "big check" so you can still get a check for free. Just select big check and set your min payout to 500 or 1000. If you insist on getting smaller checks, you'll have to pay the $5. Or you can get it via epass for free.

I'd love to know what % of all your affiliates makes over $500 a pay period. And, anyone that does can probably afford the $5.

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

If you can honestly sit there & tell everyone that it costs you $5 to cut a check, then I think you really need to audit your payroll department.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I'd love to know what % of all your affiliates makes over $500 a pay period. And, anyone that does can probably afford the $5.

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

If you can honestly sit there & tell everyone that it costs you $5 to cut a check, then I think you really need to audit your payroll department.

Don't hate on me for pointing this out please, but I believe he already explained why he is charging the $5 fee, and his explanation had nothing to do with the actual cost of cutting the check.

His reasons were to make his check payment option less attractive and his Epass option more attractive in order to cut down on the amount of checks he writes, thus cutting down on the amount of fraud issues related to checks that he claims is an issue for his program.

At least that's what I comprehended.

[Maj. Stress]

Originally Posted by Greenie

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

Most major programs only want to hear the good from webmasters that only produce a few sales a week. But that is a topic for another thread.

As stated by a few, cutting checks is a cost of doing business. Of all the years I worked in the brick & mortar industries not once did I see an employer charge an employee a fee to get the money they earned.

I did learn one thing from this thread and I will keep that to myself. The lesson learned should be obvious though.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by [BV]

...His reasons were to make his check payment option less attractive and his Epass option more attractive in order to cut down on the amount of checks he writes, thus cutting down on the amount of fraud issues related to checks that he claims is an issue for his program....

I get that part - my point is why does everyone have to pay for the fuck-up's of others? If I lost a check, I'd have no problem paying whatever fees were required to replace it.

But to charge everyone $5 to cover the costs of potential problems that may or may not happen is not right.

Hell, the $5 for the check might actually be cheaper than ePass in the long run. You get charged $2 per ATM withdrawal. There's a fee on both ends to transfer money to & from your bank.

Fees Fees Fees.....

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by Greenie

my point is why does everyone have to pay for the fuck-up's of others? If I lost a check, I'd have no problem paying whatever fees were required to replace it.

But to charge everyone $5 to cover the costs of potential problems that may or may not happen is not right.

Amen Brother... !

DD

[[BV]]

This thread reminded me how glad I am I don't have to deal with payouts.

3rd party payouts by CCBill & Epoch are nice for both sides.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by [BV]

...3rd party payouts by CCBill & Epoch are nice for both sides.

Wait until I start to complain that CCBill charges me $0.39 for mailing the check, but they only pay $0.27 in postage

[Kenny B!]

Here’s my 5 cents worth… I feel it’s up to the sponsor to decide if they want to charge a fee for check or epass payments, and up to the affiliate if they want to use that sponsor, or continue using that sponsor.

Every sponsor pays out differently, 50%-80% revshare, some deduct processing, some don’t, some make almost impossible to see what you actually make per revshare sale, some are $25 pps, some $60 pps, some vary depending on the amount of sales you make each month. Every sponsor program varies in how much they pay per sale, it’s up to affiliates to work out their per click income and decide if the sponsor is worth promoting. If there is a $5 fee per check you need to factor that in to how much you make per click.

As far as charging a fee to cut checks, I completely understand why a sponsor program would want to do so; it’s a real pain in the ass. I do find $5 excessive for the work involved but $2.50 sounds about right to cover the costs of the check, processing, stamp, etc.

E-Passporte is a great system and although it can actually costs more to pay via epass then by check with the $2 per transfer, $35 wire fee and $50 Epass load fee, it makes life a heck of a lot easier.

In either case the fee should also be reasonable and relative to the minimum payout, if the min payout is $50 and there’s a $5 fee that’s an extra 10% loss every 2 weeks for the smaller webmasters who just reach the minimum.

I do think it was proper of Mayor to inform all his affiliates of this and not just start charging the fee with no notice. He went the right route as far as informing affiliates of changes to their account, something we don’t see so often these days.

[Greenguy]

Kenny - what do you guys charge?

[Simon]

I don't think it's fair that using the CCBill affiliate system, even though we chose to pay all processing fees instead of passing them along to our affiliates, we can't pay the .39 fee for mailing the check too.

That's just not right.

[Kenny B!]

We don't charge anything for checks but we do pass along the $2 fee for epassporte payments.

[Tvduijn]

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

We don't charge anything for checks but we do pass along the $2 fee for epassporte payments.

Lots of sponsors do that, and as an Epass lover, I always wonder why you guys only charge Epass transfers. Checks arent free either right? And Epass seems a lot les hassle to me. (tho I dont have any experience with it)

Its not a big deal and I dont want you to go charge checks aswell but I just wonder, why free checks and $2 epass?

[Useless]

I'm a check guy and, as of yet, haven't allowed any sponsor to pay me via Epass. It's not easier for me to put my money into someone else's bank. Want to make it easier? Deposit my funds directly into MY bank - you know, the one I chose, not the one you did. Otherwise, send me a fucking check and don't act like, after hundreds of years of successful use, they're suddenly a great big pain in the ass.

Also, I've done a variety of independent contractor jobs, from selling high-end barbecue grills to home security systems. All on a pay per sale basis. Never, had any company charged me for MY pay. It's a cost of doing business that typically isn't passed onto those who were bastardly enough to send sales your way. If those sales are so god damned aggravating, just let the sales people know and they'll shift their efforts elsewhere.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Simon

I don't think it's fair that using the CCBill affiliate system, even though we chose to pay all processing fees instead of passing them along to our affiliates, we can't pay the .39 fee for mailing the check too....

Since I have all my accounts merged & only get one check, based on 100 or so CCBill sponsors, I think you owe me $0.03 for the last 4 years

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

We don't charge anything for checks but we do pass along the $2 fee for epassporte payments.

Good man

Originally Posted by Tvduijn

...Its not a big deal and I dont want you to go charge checks aswell but I just wonder, why free checks and $2 epass?

With most, checks are the default & you have to pay for another option that you wish to use. With Mayor's Money, ePass is not the default & you have to pay for the checks. I think everyone has a default that's best for their business model & if you choose a different option, you have to pay for it.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...Also, I've done a variety of independent contractor jobs, from selling high-end barbecue grills to home security systems. All on a pay per sale basis. Never, had any company charged me for MY pay. It's a cost of doing business that typically isn't passed onto those who were bastardly enough to send sales your way. If those sales are so god damned aggravating, just let the sales people know and they'll shift their efforts elsewhere.

That does bring us back to the Independent Contractor angle on this & the fact that we all get 1099's, but I doubt you'll find another industry that charges you for your payment.

[Kenny B!]

Originally Posted by Tvduijn

Lots of sponsors do that, and as an Epass lover, I always wonder why you guys only charge Epass transfers. Checks arent free either right? And Epass seems a lot les hassle to me. (tho I dont have any experience with it)

Its not a big deal and I dont want you to go charge checks aswell but I just wonder, why free checks and $2 epass?

When we started off we didn't charge for check or epass. Truth be told I started charging the $2 fee when I had to add an extra $300+ to my wire to cover the wire, load and processing fees. Writing checks costs me about the same as sending an epass but because the cost is deferred through so many smaller fee’s (check costs, stamps, printer ink, envelopes, etc.) I don’t see the money leaving as one lump sum and never started charging a fee. Is it a fair and justified reason, absolutely not, it’s just the way it is.

Another thing that just came to mind is when starting an affiliate program I don’t know if many sponsors factor in the cost of paying affiliates. If you have a min payout of $50 (many affiliates get paid around that mark) and the cost of paying the affiliate is $2.50 to $5 by % that can add up to quite a large expense. Again this doesn’t mean the affiliate should have to pay for it, it means people need to plan really well and set their accounting and terms and conditions up properly.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

...it means people need to plan really well and set their accounting and terms and conditions up properly.

You mean think it all through in advance? What a novel idea.

[Tommy]

I am a little shocked that a program owner would post somebodys stats on a board


I understand that the mayor wanted to refute a statement made by somebody but there are lots better ways to do that

I know this might come as a shock to a lot of program owners but that is private info and its really not yours to do with as you please
its a huge breach of privacy

I am sure its actionable

when a doctor creates medical records for a person is that info his to give out to the public

what about a credit card company openly posting customers financial info

[Mayor_PC]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I'd love to know what % of all your affiliates makes over $500 a pay period. And, anyone that does can probably afford the $5.

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

If you can honestly sit there & tell everyone that it costs you $5 to cut a check, then I think you really need to audit your payroll department.

First off it's not all about the cost. If it was a cost thing, I would be charging for epass like everyone else and I would make a ton more.
It's about changing behavior. Make one more appealing than the other and get people to change but allow those who refuse to change some options.

I'll address both of these as best I can and yes, I'll even post some private data (it's my private data so it's OK haha)

Percentage of affiliates over $500 a period that. Sure thing, about 80%. Now try to follow OK. The percentage of check guys between $100-$500 a a period is about 70%.


As for blow can't wait till his money is over $500 and is so broke he needs his money right away he can always get an epass for FREE and take it out of an ATM. Unlike almost ALL programs I don't charge for epass.


To put things in perspective.
Today: My personal bank refunds me for any atm fees I am charged, they pay me interest on all funds. I earn miles when I use my debit visa there and I get world class service.

Years ago: My bank charged me a monthly fee because I had too little money in there. I was charged ATM fees by my bank for using another banks ATM. I was charged a fee for using a real teller. I was charged a fee for depositing coins.

My point is you are not a naive person so don't act stupid and try to say everyone should be and is treated equally. It's life, it's why we strive to make more, be more and learn more. Big guys expect special treatment. I believe that's why you kept winning "contests" from CE. They didn't reward the "one or two sale guy" They gave YOU a reward because you sent them tons of sales. I didn't hear you bitching about the inequity then


Clearly you want to paint me out to be some kind of greeny err greedy monster over $5 which is absolutly laughable. I think it's about time you found something else to be indigent and self richeous about.

[Mayor_PC]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I am a little shocked that a program owner would post somebodys stats on a board


I understand that the mayor wanted to refute a statement made by somebody but there are lots better ways to do that

I know this might come as a shock to a lot of program owners but that is private info and its really not yours to do with as you please
its a huge breach of privacy

I am sure its actionable

when a doctor creates medical records for a person is that info his to give out to the public

what about a credit card company openly posting customers financial info

Don't shame yourself trying to think like a lawyer because you're clearly not. Comparing medical data or his credit card info to a partial snap shot of stats in MY program is a more than stupid. Could I have refuted what I thought was an inaccurate claim differently, sure. But solid proof settles arguments faster than anything else. Next time, however, I highly doubt I'll handle things the same way

Mr Yum and I had a chat and worked things out and made our respective apologies, and I agreed posting his stats was not a good idea, so you can go find some other dead horse to beat.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

Don't shame yourself trying to think like a lawyer because you're clearly not. Comparing medical data or his credit card info to a partial snap shot of stats in MY program is a more than stupid. Could I have refuted what I thought was an inaccurate claim differently, sure. But solid proof settles arguments faster than anything else. Next time, however, I highly doubt I'll handle things the same way

Mr Yum and I had a chat and worked things out and made our respective apologies, and I agreed posting his stats was not a good idea, so you can go find some other dead horse to beat.

the only one that shamed themselves on this board is you

if you wanna think about how to handle things in the future you might wanna start by not picking pissing matches with your affliates

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

First off it's not all about the cost. If it was a cost thing, I would be charging for epass like everyone else and I would make a ton more.
It's about changing behavior. Make one more appealing than the other and get people to change but allow those who refuse to change some options...

Is this some sort of Global Warming thing? Get everyone off paper & onto electronic funds? Save a tree, preserve the ozone layer?

Because if you had come out & said that from the beginning, I might have actually thought that you had a point.

But I don't see why it's up to you to change everyone's behavior. But, then again, it is your company, so speed & I wish you the best

Originally Posted by Mayor_PC

I'll address both of these as best I can and yes, I'll even post some private data (it's my private data so it's OK haha)...

Yeah, I should have never asked that one - my apologies on that.