I've Pulled Hardlink Trades - You May Want To Read This

[plateman]

JennyM

I think it was last summer when a hell of a lot of sites got hit with there category pages loosing PR and going supp. and even a bunch of mainstream sites(I did a lot of reserach on it and so did a lot of others and they found no good reason for it)and it was after that, That google started liking my index page a lot during the summer months

then google did another update in the fall and my google traffic fell way down and since then it's been slowly coming back...

I know it been really bothering me why my category pages are showing no PR, and trust me I been trying to get them back

I really have no agressive cross linking or spam pages out there or nothing like that

I think some of my google short comings are from having to many aff links and I been working on that to see

so give it another BL update and toolbar update and if my category PR dont come back then just drop your links to my site

My index page is a 5 going by the toolbar for those PR whores

[ronnie]

Many people talk about not bowing or worring about SE traffic, and it makes some sense, but I have to say personally, when it's good, you sure want more and you don't want to lose it. Just my opinion.

I could be wrong but, I think the point of PR0 sites, was more, not wanting to link to banned sites. Linking to banned sites sure can't be real good for your own site. Then again, how do you tell for sure if a site is banned or not?

[CaptainJSparrow]

PR 0 - So what? Penalized? How do you know?

I can never tell if I understand nothing about SEO or more than most.

Useless Warrior the "so what" is that google frowns upon you linking to sites that are penalized and may penalize you for it if you link to enough of them.
How do I know? A page that used to have pr that now does not is a pretty good sign. If they do not show up in the serps, that's another good sign.

I've been doing this for 11 years now and have never pulled links other than when the page that I was linking to either went away, re-directed, tried to install viruses, changed the page that I was linking to to an advertisement, etc. That is the case here with the exception that I am also pulling links to pages that are obviously penalized by google. IMHO the purpose of a link exchange is so that both parties benefit from it. If one party is possibly bringing the other down, then obviously that is not a fair exchange.

Along those lines, if I keep trades to a "bad neighborhood" and hurt my own site obviously I am also not doing right for the other good sites that I'm linking with.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by CaptainJSparrow

That is the case here with the exception that I am also pulling links to pages that are obviously penalized by google. IMHO the purpose of a link exchange is so that both parties benefit from it. If one party is possibly bringing the other down, then obviously that is not a fair exchange.

Along those lines, if I keep trades to a "bad neighborhood" and hurt my own site obviously I am also not doing right for the other good sites that I'm linking with.

Does this mean that you think my LL is now a bad neighborhood since I notice you have pulled all my category trades?

[Surfn]

[plateman]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Does this mean that you think my LL is now a bad neighborhood since I notice you have pulled all my category trades?

I guess when your a bad neighborhood you dont get no notice

[Bill]

Google rot is affecting the whole adult arena, including some of the biggest people, and has been hitting the midsize and small linlists particularly hard.

We were discussing this in another thread.

There's not a lot of evidence that google rot is caused by "linking to bad neighborhoods", and a lot of evidence that it is caused by:

1. Heavy reciprocal linking.
2. Heavily duplicated anchor text.
3. Lack of one-way incoming links.
4. Heavy phrasing - too many related keywords on pages.
5. As well as the clear fact that by google's standards 99% of all adult sites are spam, because they are affiliate sites whose primary purpose is to drive traffic to sponsors.

The whole form and structure of the midsized or small linklist is just begging to be google-rotted.

But betraying each other because we want to preserve our income is going to fuck us all in the end, because it's not like we don't all want to preserve our income. We're all here to make a profit. If one starts because google is shitting on everybody these days, why should anybody honor their trades?

There has to be a more effective solution, or at least a compromise.

[jennym]

Bill - I agree with all 5 of the things you posted. I have been trying to address those exact things on my pages recently. The issue I have is that a lot of people consider this all a "bunch of BS". Which, to me, means that they will not do ANYTHING to try to "fix" the problems on their sites. I am just trying to better my site. Like I said, I am trying to see where other people stand on this as well. Not really getting much of a "discussion" though.

[plateman]

personally I think that the algo needs to be adjusted for adult sites and I hope in the coming months that it will be

I have been doing things to make my site better for google bot

and I too am gonna look at my trades next as I have trades on my index and trades on my main page

[Useless]

I truly enjoy watching people and their knee-jerk reactions to things they cannot possibly quantify. This makes me respect circle jerk TGP owners who bypassed all this nonsense. No need to worry about those pesky and uncooperative search engines.

Preacher created this topic to warn about links he chose to pull due to dead and abandoned sites, not SE voodoo. He has asked me why I don't pursue link trades since I so obviously have very few on my sites. Now he knows why: my fellow webmasters are crazy. I'll stick with whatever the SEs trickle my way and play with purchased traffic, thank you very much.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Linkster, I'm looking at my old category link trades and don't see any to linkforsex.com. Is that the domain that you're referring to? For some reason you're listed in the free sites area (not the link exchanges section) of some of my categories, but not all of them. I'm kinda puzzled on this one? How long ago did we do a trade? The only thing that I can think of is that I had a person working for me that may have put your links there instead of the in the link exchange section. I did not pull any links to your site. I'd be happy to add them if you wish.

[Greenguy]

I'd just like to point out that this thread has no PR (not even a PR0)

[DangerDave]

... and I would like to point out that the abbreviation PR is used in medical circles - per rectum - eg: up you arse!

DD

[jennym]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I'd just like to point out that this thread has no PR (not even a PR0)

It shows a PR0 for me. And, I don't think anyone is talking about NEW pages without PR. All of the pages *I* am talking about are YEARS old. I believe most of them HAD PR, but no longer do. Do you not believe that is indicative of a "problem" in Google's eyes??

BTW, I traded with Marc when his site was barely a month old...I would be willing to bet he had no PR.

Originally Posted by DangerDave

... and I would like to point out that the abbreviation PR is used in medical circles - per rectum - eg: up you arse!

DD

....and I would like to point out that many people here think you are an arrogant, condescending prick who never "joins" a discussion, but simply degrades everyone you believe to be of inferior intelligence.

[spacemanspiff]

....and I would like to point out that many people here think you are an arrogant, condescending prick who never "joins" a discussion, but simply degrades everyone you believe to be of inferior intelligence.

Amen, sister.

[plateman]

man you guys blow shit up to beyond what it is worth

[jennym]

Originally Posted by plateman

man you guys blow shit up to beyond what it is worth

I am certainly not trying to blow things up. I believe I came in this thread very friendly and have pretty much remained that way. I was trying to have an adult conversation. Hoping to learn something from some of my much smarter peers *cough* Linkster *cough*, and trying to get some thoughts on what other people believed regarding what I posted. I also think that MANY people do not post in these types of threads because people like UW and DD act like assholes and it just isn't worth the aggravation.

If they don't believe in this "SEO hocus pocus crap" then why not do the mature thing and just not join the discussion?

Sorry...kind of went off a little, but god damn...it's like dealing with my kids at work.

[Surfn]

[Bill]

Originally Posted by jennym

Do you not believe that is indicative of a "problem" in Google's eyes??

Nobody is quite sure what it means, as far as I've been able to determine.

Other than that it started occuring about 16 months ago, and tends to bobble, that is, it comes and goes.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument that it represents a penalty.

The bobble implies that it's a toolbar artifact.

I have many interior pages on my domains that were zeroed out as part of this zeroing trend - including a large number of linked freesites. But in this latest tbpr update about half of them came back, many with higher pr than before. And I had done nothing to improve their linking.

The same with category pages in my private linklists -odd patterns of pages losing pr, then getting it back.

To make it personal to you, let me ask you, when your domains get hit with this strange tbpr bobbling, or maybe some other google phenomenon that we haven't seen yet, you're saying it's perfectly fine with you if all your link partners drop their links to you?

You are reacting to this as if it were a penalty when there is no good evidence that it's a penalty.

What it is evidence of, is that we are dealing with a NEW google. We need to study what it's rewarding and build and link with it's new preferences in mind.

To do that, we need to cooperate. Build value for our surfers, work together to recreate our linking patterns, test new ideas, share knowledge, and trust each other to honor the linking deals we've made.

Why do we need trust? Because it's clear that one-way links are what google rewards now. You can't do one-way linking in business if you don't trust that the people you give links to aren't going to secretly drop their links to you to vampirize your relevance.

[jennym]

Originally Posted by Bill

Nobody is quite sure what it means, as far as I've been able to determine.

Other than that it started occuring about 16 months ago, and tends to bobble, that is, it comes and goes.

I have yet to hear a convincing argument that it represents a penalty.

The bobble implies that it's a toolbar artifact.

I have many interior pages on my domains that were zeroed out as part of this zeroing trend - including a large number of linked freesites. But in this latest tbpr update about half of them came back, many with higher pr than before. And I had done nothing to improve their linking.

The same with category pages in my private linklists -odd patterns of pages losing pr, then getting it back.

To make it personal to you, let me ask you, when your domains get hit with this strange tbpr bobbling, or maybe some other google phenomenon that we haven't seen yet, you're saying it's perfectly fine with you if all your link partners drop their links to you?

You are reacting to this as if it were a penalty when there is no good evidence that it's a penalty.

What it is evidence of, is that we are dealing with a NEW google. We need to study what it's rewarding and build and link with it's new preferences in mind.

To do that, we need to cooperate. Build value for our surfers, work together to recreate our linking patterns, test new ideas, share knowledge, and trust each other to honor the linking deals we've made.

Why do we need trust? Because it's clear that one-way links are what google rewards now. You can't do one-way linking in business if you don't trust that the people you give links to aren't going to secretly drop their links to you to vampirize your relevance.

Hi Bill...I appreciate you at least giving your opinions.

First - I think I am far from having knee jerk reactions. I started the other thread over 2 months ago, have joined this discussion, and have not yet removed links.

Second - I had a discussion at length with someone on ICQ last night about figuring out how to make Google happy. It still involved linking with people, but in different ways. I am not just abandoning all my link trades. BTW, I had that (and other) conversations on ICQ because people wanted a calm conversation with me instead of entering into this pissing contest. They contacted me.

Third - I think if there is a problem with my site, and people drop it until that problem is fixed because they believe it harms them, then that would be a wise business decision.

I have never lost PR on any of my internal pages, so I am very unfamiliar with what you are describing. That is why I started the original thread, and joined this one. I am always eager and willing to learn.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by jennym

I have never lost PR on any of my internal pages, so I am very unfamiliar with what you are describing. That is why I started the original thread, and joined this one. I am always eager and willing to learn.

Well, when i first noticed this occuring months ago I surfed thru my trades and studied how it affected the se networks of a bunch of my trading partners.

That takes me into the network of sites of about a dozen of the biggest se builders here, including dean & jeff (and their network may include your se domains, if you have many domains beyond your primary ll), linkster, jay, gg & mml, and others.

I saw interior pages that I beleived had pr zeroed out everywhere I went. Their was no-one who was immune to it.

(I can't always be sure that interior zeros had been hit by this, that is, they might have been zeros before, but I have surfed all these folks sites multiple times over the years, I'm quite sure that I saw plenty of "main" pages off the index zeroed, plus all or most of the minor pages. on domain after domain.)

Plus, of course, the small linklists and subsidiary sites of all the small linklist owners here, almost all or many of whom have had the interior zeros at some point, as has been discussed here a fair number of times in the past 16 months.

So, if you haven't seen it, I don't know what to tell you. Go over your domains and friend's domains and look for it. It's happening as we speak.

---

I gather you feel that your linklist offers such unique value to the surfers that you can afford to say "fuck you" to other webmasters, and you don't think you will gain the rep of a linkdropper from this. That's your position, that's your right.

My position is that this is a dangerous road, and, to boot, it's not a solution to this problem.

I'm not a linklist owner. If you guys want to start a linkdropping war it's not that big a deal to me.

I am a linker, and for as long as I've been a linker, the general opinion has been that linkdropping is something only cheaters do.

[plateman]

jennym we have a index trade and thats good

me and captainJ had index and category and I got pissed off that he dropped my cat links without even a message, so thats ok

and if he would of said "man I think your no PR condition is affecting my ranking - I would of happily said take the links down and see what happens, and thats it....no hard feelings...we still have a index trade

and these trades are years old he atleast could have asked what happened to my pages and I could have told him I added 15 category pages all at once and my other pages didnt carry over any PR juice or I think its a toolbar error... or the same thing thats happening to 1000s of other legit webmasters

and I had category PR for years


me and spaceman have index and category on one of his LL - thats ok


and what bill was saying about his pages and free sites are doing the same thing as mine

the people were gonna partner with in link trades should get togther and work out a new scheme that google likes...

but pulling peoples links behind there back is plain wrong


and I dont no why you two insulted DD?

[jennym]

Originally Posted by plateman

jennym we have a index trade and thats good

me and captainJ had index and category and I got pissed off that he dropped my cat links without even a message, so thats ok


and these trades are years old he atleast could have asked what happened to my pages and I could have told him I added 15 category pages all at once and my other pages didnt carry over any PR juice or I think its a toolbar error... or the same thing thats happening to 1000s of other legit webmasters

and I had category PR for years


me and spaceman have index and category on one of his LL - thats ok
and if he would of said "man I think your no PR condition is affecting my ranking - I would of happily said take the links down and see what happens, and thats it....no hard feelings...we still have a index trade


and what bill was saying about his pages and free sites are doing the same thing as mine

the people were gonna partner with in link trades should get togther and work out a new scheme that google likes...

but pulling peoples links behind there back is plain wrong


and I dont no why you two insulted DD?

I have noticed people losing PR. That seemed like a "penalty" to me. I just wanted to discuss what other people thought. The only time I have pulled links and didn't inform someone is if they had already voided the trade (by removing the pages we were trading with) or if they were installing crap. That has only been a few sites in the 8 years the site has been up. I would love to get together with people and work out a new linking deal. I am in the middle of re-vamping all of my pages, but anyone who is interested in this should ICQ/email/PM me after next week. Having said that, I still believe that some of my trades are worthless/harmful and I will be checking them all next week.

As for DD, that is twice that I have seen in the last week he has jumped in a thread, not to have an adult conversation, but to degrade the person asking questions. The other thread is here
Of course, he has pretty much always been like that, and I can't fucking stand him. It might be petty of me, but that is how I feel.

This board is supposed to be a community where people can talk about various ideas, thoughts, and opinions. Instead, it has pretty much turned into a high school clique board where many people are afraid to post their honest thoughts and opinions for fear of being attacked. But, I digress.....

[dallasdeb]

Originally Posted by jennym

....and I would like to point out that many people here think you are an arrogant, condescending prick who never "joins" a discussion, but simply degrades everyone you believe to be of inferior intelligence.

I thought his post was funny. I thought the other post was hilarious.
When did you lose your sense of humor?

[jennym]

Originally Posted by dallasdeb

I thought his post was funny. I thought the other post was hilarious.
When did you lose your sense of humor?

Honestly, if I thought for one second he meant it as amusement, it would have been funny. But IMO, DD is like that bitter, lonely old man in the neighborhood who hates all the kids and hollers at them from his front door. With every post he has ever made, he comes across and rude and condescending. He is honestly the one person on this board that I can not stand, so maybe I am a little sensitive to his posts. I can admit that