Why don't more sponsors make free sites???

[Chop Smith]

Dare,

I have restrained myself from replying to this tread, because I realize that my reply could be viewed as spammy. Since I think I have a couple of points that have not been addressed, I am going to take a chance of being spanked.

I gave up on Tgp's long ago. TPG traffic may be large, but conversions and retainment suck, and we're supposed to be in this together on partnership right?

I have got numbers showing the downhill spiral of the quality of TGP traffic started at least three years back. The only correlation that I can draw is that it started downhill when TGPs' were forced into listing only preferred submitters. This is just an observation and might not have a damn thing to do with it.

Why don't more sponsors make free sites?

Part of it is the time involved in building a free site or the cost since our time is really our money. Several things go into this:
Design
I could probably deliver you 50 new galleries by morning and guarantee that they would all look somewhat different. When you dealing with 1 page, you can template the hell out of it, regardless if it is .php or .html. Also, I think that TGP owners are more tolerant of templates. On the opposite, LL owners are less tolerant of templates. And it is a fact that there is not that many ways to do a warning page and main page. It is made easier if the sponsor resorts to a graphical design, but then most of the better LL frowns on this type of design. It is a hard call for the sponsor so I think most of your larger sponsors just say to hell with it and end up missing the second best traffic to there tour, assuming that SE would be the best.
Coding
After you have the promo designed (html) then you have got to deal with passing the affiliate code (php). Dealing with a one-page gallery, it is a simple matter. Dealing with four pages, it is more difficult. I don't think it is intentional, but if you follow the code thru on some free hosted sites you will find that the reference to your affiliate code is lost. To prove this you might have to hit your back button several times and do some stupid moves that surfers do. Honestly, regardless of what anyone says capturing the QUERY_STRING on the entry page is not enough. It has got to be done on all four pages and for every link, if you are using php, you have got to have at least three lines of code. God knows, I wish someone could prove me wrong on this but if you are going to be safe with your php code, there is no easy way. Finally, on this point some of us small operators value link list traffic, the last thing we would want is to piss an owner off or to be perceived as cheating the LL owner out of his traffic.

The shit sticks theory.
I'm borrowing this theory from a person that I value his opinion much and regardless of the degree of success I have in this business I will always be appreciative of his support and help. His theory goes something like "if you throw enough shit on the wall some is bound to stick." IMO most of the "successful sponsors" subscribe to this theory. Therefore, since they are well established they will keep throwing it by using the easiest method that happens to be hosted free galleries.

It would be a whole lot easier if the Sponsor makes however many free sites you want out there and put them in a zip file someplace. I'll download the zip, search and replace link codes, and put it up.

I am not sure that you are quite correct here or perhaps I misunderstood you. If you are correct, I damn sure want to do it. But if you are referring to your link list, why would you want to waste your time and pay for the bw. Whereas if you use the FHS, the sponsor is pays for the bandwidth. I think it would be doing a submitter an injustice if a sponsored zipped a FHS, the submitter just changes the link code and submits it just to have it rejected because the LL is already listing the original FHS.

I have missed something here, haven't I?


Straying off the subject of your thread somewhat, I want to share an excerpt from my business plan that was written close to two years ago, but I think it holds true today. In the future; like TGPs, I believe that there will be very few link list accepting submissions. I think that most will be using hosted free-sites. At the present time there are very few sponsors offering hosted free-sites while most are providing hosted galleries. Hence, I believe that even the big link list owners would prefer listing quality hosted free sites from someone that they trust and earn revenue from the listing as opposed to listing sites from a submitter. Therefore, the plan will be to build one hosted free site and one hosted gallery each day for each site Now I realize that there could be several reasons for me missing the boat here - shitty designs, inability to properly convert, the use of ccBill, etc., but I think it would benefit some of us "small timers" to have your constructive comments.

[DangerDave]

Nice post Chop

DD

[ClickBuster]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Coding
After you have the promo designed (html) then you have got to deal with passing the affiliate code (php). Dealing with a one-page gallery, it is a simple matter. Dealing with four pages, it is more difficult. I don't think it is intentional, but if you follow the code thru on some free hosted sites you will find that the reference to your affiliate code is lost. To prove this you might have to hit your back button several times and do some stupid moves that surfers do. Honestly, regardless of what anyone says capturing the QUERY_STRING on the entry page is not enough. It has got to be done on all four pages and for every link, if you are using php, you have got to have at least three lines of code. God knows, I wish someone could prove me wrong on this but if you are going to be safe with your php code, there is no easy way. Finally, on this point some of us small operators value link list traffic, the last thing we would want is to piss an owner off or to be perceived as cheating the LL owner out of his traffic.

I just want to add something to this fine pice of writing. Here's a little example of a possible linkcode for hosted free site, in order to track the aff ID:

sponsorsite.com/free_sites/affiliate_id/site01/
sponsorsite.com/free_sites/affiliate_id/site01/main.html
sponsorsite.com/free_sites/affiliate_id/site01/gallery1.html

You can use mod_rewrite and you keep the affiliate ID in the URL, your whole problem is solved and that is not even coding.

Also, miding the fact that there're such things as cookies and sessions (sessions require cookies, but they can be loaded thru a GET/POST variable that could be also taken from the URL via mod_rewrite), passing thru a single page will solve your tracking problem.

As a conclusion I will say that most probably, free sites are rarely provided by sponsors, because of the tons of restrictions of different LLs (at least that's the way I see it). Also lets not forget the fact that FHG are built times quicker than HFS (hosted free sites), which leads to the simple calculation - less time, more FHG, more traffic. I think that's the way a sponsor owner will look at it, also isn't it true that most of the webmasters are doing galleries, but not free sites? Again, more FHG submitters than HFS submitters...

It seems that time is the main reason there're less HFS provided by sponsors. FHG are added sometimes 10 per week, in a month that is 40 in a year total of 520 FHG, 2'000'000 uniques each for the gallery's life time with conversion ratio (FHG => paysite) about 1:1000, that will lead to 2k uniques per gallery. On 520 galleries that is 1'040'000 and that number kills.

Maybe these numbers are big for many of the sponsors out there, but they may also be pretty small for the ones that can afford to build so many FHG. And that is quick traffic - it comes almost after publishing the new gallery, no submissions, nothing - just build it, publish it and they will come.

Huh, my reply is too long isn't it

[Greenguy]

ecchi - does your program offer Hosted Galleries?

[Cleo]

Originally posted by ecchi
In fact why do I need them at all?

No traffic for you!

[Far-L]

We just launched the new version of Homegrown Cash using the X3 Partnersoft affiliate software.

We are certainly open to hosting free sites for any one that wants to work with us. Drop Carol at homegrownvideo.com a message and she will help get you set up with content, text, etc.

[Carol]

Originally posted by Far-L
We just launched the new version of Homegrown Cash using the X3 Partnersoft affiliate software.

We are certainly open to hosting free sites for any one that wants to work with us. Drop Carol at homegrownvideo.com a message and she will help get you set up with content, text, etc.

I am also reachable through various messengers

ICQ - 112519354

AIM - tynidncr

MSN - tynidncr@hotmail.com

Yahoo - tynidncr68

[Greenguy]

Far-L - there's a differance between hosting free sites for people & offering Hosted Free Sites.

Like Hosted Galleries are for TGP owners, Hosted Free Sites are for Link List owners. What you're tlaking about is setting up webmasters with free hosting which, while it is a good idea in theory, is sorta frowned upon by Link Lists & TGP's

[xxxjay]

OCCash (www.occash.com) has free hosted sites. I would have made them before the galleries actually, but I have a LL background and not just TGP.

It seems like a lot of people are moving back to LL traffic - it is way better.

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by xxxjay
OCCash (www.occash.com) has free hosted sites.

I think most of us know that already

[Carol]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Far-L - there's a differance between hosting free sites for people & offering Hosted Free Sites.

Like Hosted Galleries are for TGP owners, Hosted Free Sites are for Link List owners. What you're tlaking about is setting up webmasters with free hosting which, while it is a good idea in theory, is sorta frowned upon by Link Lists & TGP's

Not to sound ignorant but what is the logic behind the frowning?

[DangerDave]

Originally posted by Carol
Not to sound ignorant but what is the logic behind the frowning?

Hosting "acquired" for free is treated that way by webmasters.. eg: they dont care about it..

Therefore sites go missing/404/403/302 etc with monotonous regularity. That's bad for LL's

DD

[Carol]

Originally posted by DangerDave
Hosting "acquired" for free is treated that way by webmasters.. eg: they dont care about it..

Therefore sites go missing/404/403/302 etc with monotonous regularity. That's bad for LL's

DD

very good point I hadnt thought of that.

Logic being they dont pay for it why the hell bother maintaining it as it should be maintained?

[FiReC]

we make and will continue to make hosted free sites for all our sites now and in the future. they are a great way to generate traffic! oh yea cleo, they all have unique titles and descriptions in easy cut and paste format!

[xxxjay]

Originally posted by Greenguy
I think most of us know that already

LOL - really my point was: if it was up to me I would have made the free sites first. I'm not a tgp guy.

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by Carol
Logic being they dont pay for it why the hell bother maintaining it as it should be maintained?

Another problem is - and I know that this is NOT something that HG would do - is that some free hosts are less than honest with the webmasters using their servers as far as redirects & dialers & whatnot.

So, a few years back, after getting sick of webmasters that didn;t care & free hosts that were less than honest, a lot of sites banned them all, regardless of who was involved. One bad apple......

[Far-L]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Far-L - there's a differance between hosting free sites for people & offering Hosted Free Sites.

Like Hosted Galleries are for TGP owners, Hosted Free Sites are for Link List owners. What you're tlaking about is setting up webmasters with free hosting which, while it is a good idea in theory, is sorta frowned upon by Link Lists & TGP's

Actually... no misunderstanding. While we will host free sites and NOT do what other programs typically do with redirects etc., we don't expect it catch on until our reputation merits it. However, in the mean time, we will also work with reputable free site webmasters that want content to build sites to host wherever they want.

Best of both worlds.

[dareutwo]

Maybe we should differentiate between Free Hosted and Free Sites vs Host your own free sites.
I don't have a problem hosting the sites, just wish it was far easier to get them.

ie... if you're an amatuer site. I simply can't build any old free site with other amateur content if I don't know it's actually inside your site. (well ok, you can, but chargebacks are a bitch)

It would be a whole lot easier if the Sponsor makes however many free sites you want out there and put them in a zip file someplace.
I'll download the zip, search and replace link codes, and put it up.
Hope this makes more sense for some.

[Far-L]

Originally posted by dareutwo
Maybe we should differentiate between Free Hosted and Free Sites vs Host your own free sites.
I don't have a problem hosting the sites, just wish it was far easier to get them.

ie... if you're an amatuer site. I simply can't build any old free site with other amateur content if I don't know it's actually inside your site. (well ok, you can, but chargebacks are a bitch)

It would be a whole lot easier if the Sponsor makes however many free sites you want out there and put them in a zip file someplace.
I'll download the zip, search and replace link codes, and put it up.
Hope this makes more sense for some.

That does make sense and i think it is a great idea.

In our case, we are only going to allow webmasters to use our content to promote our site. We absolutely do not want other content being used to market us and we will discourage that at all times. We have 20 years plus of our own exclusive stuff to draw from. The difference between us and others becomes clear to surfers quickly.

[chilihost]

hunkmoney has a few hosted free sites already and I will make you a promise that we will get more online!

cheers,
Luke

[[BV]]

I'm working on them as fast as I can!

[john0pr0n0]

Some good points. Am i the only web master who thinks forced ujc traffic from tgp's is absolute rubbish?

I seem to be..

[Mishi]

Originally posted by john0pr0n0
Some good points. Am i the only web master who thinks forced ujc traffic from tgp's is absolute rubbish?

I seem to be..

You seem to be the only person on this board who's even remotely concerned with "forced ujc traffic".

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by john0pr0n0
Some good points. Am i the only web master who thinks forced ujc traffic from tgp's is absolute rubbish?

I seem to be..

Hell no - I'm on that bandwagon too!

[SEO_Konsul]

can any body show sponsors with good free hosted free sites? and also show what is the difference to no good ones?