Link Trading Q

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Monsieur

But they still have some updates (pretty much on a quarterly basis) which you can use as a hint for the PR so you'll just need to look at the PRs right after a new update to find out the current PRs of pages.

And yes, the Toolbar PR ist useless, but in another way, because it's very vague, especially when a page gets to a higher PR. Reason for that is that the internal PR of a site is not the one Google shows in the toolbar.

Monsieur - I really dont understand what you are trying to say here - but I can tell you that the PR shown after an update (which btw is not quarterly anymore) is complete BS - the closest you can come to a real number is to look at the site in the Google Directory and if you know how to read the little green bars next to the sites in the directory, they will give you a somewhat good indication of it's PR for the page they have in there.

[neveremail]

What does comply with google TOS mean??

And what does the page being W3C compliant mean??

[Monsieur]

Originally Posted by neveremail

What does comply with google TOS mean??

And what does the page being W3C compliant mean??

Google Guidelines for webmasters:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html

Check for W3C Compliancy:
http://validator.w3.org/


@Linkster:
I have to admit that I didn't do too much research on SEO lately (and didn't visit the SEO forums at all in the last month), but I was still thinking that the PR updates are on a quarterly basis.
If that's wrong, what's the time frame between the updates then nowadays?

And sorry, but I still don't go with your comment that the Toolbar PR is complete BS, because I still think it's at least somewhat relevant directly after an update.

btw: I like reading your posts, pretty informative ;-)

[Linkster]

Monsieur - theyve been doing the Page Rank updates randomly -
Here's a small list:
Google toolbar Page Rank update / time since previous update

April 22, 2005 / 111 days

January 1, 2005 / 87 days

October 6, 2004 /106 days

June 22, 2004 / 22 days

May 31, 2004 / 38 days

April 23, 2004 / 16 days

April 7, 2004 / 22 days

March 16, 2004 / 50 days

January 26, 2004 / 15 days

December 23, 2003 / 17 days

December 6, 2003 / 20 days

The other important factor in this is this is just when they update the toolbar PR numbers - not the actual Page Ranks
The Google Directory has a much better history of being almost monthly for its PR indicator updates - remember that the Directory indicator is 8 places compared to the toolbar which is based on 10.

As far as the toolbar PR being useless/BS - this was just my opinion based on the fact that Google has stated that the backlinks indicator in the toolbar has been scrambled on purpose (happened due to a SEO recommending it to Googles rep at a SEO show back in early 2004)- and the site: command has been changed recently to not include the site scrapers and hijackers 302 redirects (this was Googles response to many complaints about scrapers and 302s). This leads me to believe that Google has also scrambled the code for the toolbar PR to give people trying to SEO more confusion - as well as the fact that the PR indicated can be manipulated by anyone with a little savvy - if you wanted a page to show PR10 on the toolbar you could do it within 2 days with no problem (of course it would be stupid to show ya'll how)

The main part of the toolbar PR being BS is that the numbers they are showing, just like the backlinks, dont match pages in the directory which has always been a much better relative ranking and PR indicator and closely matches the SERP rankings where the real Page Rank is taken into account.

I believe in an old article I wrote for Adult Buzz or one of the other web pubs I had stated that over 100 factors on and off page really go into the "actual" Page Rank - based on the Google founders original page rank paper and testing that we did to try to rank the importance of the factors - these factors are still just as important and far outweigh the indicated PR on the toolbar which brought me to my conclusion that using the little green bar is useless - add to that Google's neverending attempts to mislead SEOs trying to game them (which they are very good at and have engineers that do nothing but these types of projects) I would say that looking at the actual high ranking pages and studying why they rank so high (the real Page Rank effects) is a much better use of time

Sorry - too much coffee this morning

[Monsieur]

Hey Linkster, sorry but I need to answer again (You probably feel like talking to some shit talking n00b, but I'm not like that ;-), I just have some other point of views on some things, which you think are wrong ;-))

Originally Posted by Linkster

Monsieur - theyve been doing the Page Rank updates randomly

Hmm...looking at the days between the last few updates I'ld still say they're doing them on an almost quarterly basis (between 3-4 month between the updates). Do you mean randomly = manually? Because I'ld say that's just incorrect, because I couldn;t imagine a guy sitting in the Google headquarters just pushing a button called "PR update" whenever he wants to ;-)

Originally Posted by Linkster

The other important factor in this is this is just when they update the toolbar PR numbers - not the actual Page Ranks

I'm aware of that. They also update the backlinks separately and calculate the PRs internally all the time but just don't publish 'em.

Originally Posted by Linkster

if you wanted a page to show PR10 on the toolbar you could do it within 2 days with no problem (of course it would be stupid to show ya'll how)

Yeah, that's easy ;-)
But it doesn't do you any good, because you don't benefit from that stupid toolbar PR10 shown for your site ;-)
Some of these fake sites do very well on eBay, though...although it's just BSing the buyers...

Originally Posted by Linkster

I would say that looking at the actual high ranking pages and studying why they rank so high (the real Page Rank effects) is a much better use of time

Definitely true. Another good thing to use your time for is browsing through the different SEO forums there are on the web...;-)

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Monsieur

Hey Linkster, sorry but I need to answer again (You probably feel like talking to some shit talking n00b, but I'm not like that ;-),


Hmm...looking at the days between the last few updates I'ld still say they're doing them on an almost quarterly basis (between 3-4 month between the updates). Do you mean randomly = manually? Because I'ld say that's just incorrect, because I couldn;t imagine a guy sitting in the Google headquarters just pushing a button called "PR update" whenever he wants to ;-)

Not thinking noobs at all
And you are correct about the last 3 updates - they have been looking like quarterly changes - Im not sure that is really intentional other than Google trying to "mislead or roust the WMs" a little

As far as the manual update and the guy at Google pushing a button - you'd be amazed at how they really do it - and yes it is just a little red button - the only thing thats different every time is the buttons that get pushed and dials that get turned to revise the algorithm

[neveremail]

Originally Posted by Monsieur

Google Guidelines for webmasters:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html

Check for W3C Compliancy:
http://validator.w3.org/

Thanks they are both very useful as is Linksters input.

Just a question about the google guidelines:

They say:

"Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.
Avoid "doorway" pages created just for search engines, or other "cookie cutter" approaches such as affiliate programs with little or no original content. "

But isn't this just what all free sites are like with highly duplicated mirror sites??

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by neveremail

But isn't this just what all free sites are like with highly duplicated mirror sites??

Very true - thats why you will find some very specific requirements on some LLs rules lists about how they want the doorways done

There are a bunch of old threads here on the LL forum that delve into the best way to do your free sites to avoid that TOS statement from Google - Id do a quick search over there for "doorway pages" and Im sure you will find loads of discussions from the past