Sales Question

[tb]

A while back I posted a message asking when I would start to make sales.
I got a lot of helpful feed back.
Well I still have not had any signups yet.
Here are my stats for one program/one sponsor Pussy Pinata, OC Cash
Raw: 1030
Unique:802
Signups:0
Ratio:0:802
Earned:$0.00

People are clicking through to the sponsor,why no sales?
I do not plan to give up.
I just thought that with that many clicks I would have at least one signup.
In total I have sent 1345 unique clicks to OC with all programs.
Any one have any insight, it would be appreciated. Thanks

[Toby]

Way too few click throughs to get a true indication of how your traffic will do with a particular program. I'd wait and re-evalutate after 5K to 10K click-thrus. You might send 2500 clicks without a sale, then have 4 sales out of the next 500 clicks. Overal that's now a ratio of 1:750.

[Ramster]

That's not enough traffic to judge. I have a sponsor I'd recommend to anyone that is 0:831 today but yesterday made 3 sales on 1492.

It's a numbers game and the more numbers you have the better off you are. If the stats keep bad in the long haul I'd change the sponsor or promote another niche.

[Rocco]

mostly it also depends on what kind of traffic you get and to what paysite/program you're trying to sell it

[Halfdeck]

Bad ratios are frustrating, although there are too many factors involved for me to ever understand why one sponsor does 1:50 and another one does 0:6000. I usually don't invest much time on a program unless I can get around 1:200 or better.

Anyway, what I try to do personally is presell a paysite as hard as I can. To do this, I actually dig up as much info as I can about the paysite.

For example, for Pussy Pinata, the $2.97 for 1 day trial (although it looks like they'll charge you more per month if you sign up thru trial) and the 11 other sites you get complete access to with just a trial membership would be something I'd heavily stress. Also, the content is apparently exclusive, so I'd use plenty of pics/videos to demonstrate that fact. Finally, since it's a reality site, I might even go into a few of the specific girls that appeared and write a few juicy text about an episode or two.

Basically, the thing I try for when advertising a paysite is 1) establish trust with my visitors 2) tell them exactly what they're going to get out of spending their dough 3) Dispell any fears about being ripped off, infected with viruses, getting email spam, etc.

Then all you have to do is get the right type of traffic to your sites, and you should start seeing more sales.

Just my 2 cents

[sue-fl]

Hmm interesting thread. I was wondering about sales also to a sponsor that seemed really bad. Sent them over 1900 clicks last pay period with one sale.. But I take it this mean I heading in the right direction, as I'm sending more hits to them with each pay period. Right??

Halfdeck get info you posted on selling the site thanks!

But here is where I get confused again. Sponosr content? I have asked this many times to people. Guess I'll ask again. How do link list owners feel about sponsor content? I'm turning it down on my link list unless I know you, as that is all I was getting. I buy all my content as I was told by several LL owners to do so. Am I spending money where I don't need to be? HELP!

[Toby]

I can't speak for Link List owners, but as a TGP owner I don't necessarily reject sponsor content, but if I've seen the same photo set submitted a dozen times already I'm going to reject it. Also, the better the quality of the content, the more times I'm likely to approve it before it crosses the "overused" threshold. With Link Lists that threshold is much smaller since the free sites don't scroll off as quickly.

[tb]

Originally Posted by sue-fl

But here is where I get confused again. Sponosr content? I have asked this many times to people. Guess I'll ask again. How do link list owners feel about sponsor content? I'm turning it down on my link list unless I know you, as that is all I was getting. I buy all my content as I was told by several LL owners to do so. Am I spending money where I don't need to be? HELP!

Thanks for the input everyone, your help is always appreciated.

I found it very interesting. what sue-fi said.

It seems strange to me to buy unrelated content to advertise a sponsor.
Kinda like selling steak but delivering hamburger.
Is that what I should be doing?
Right now I only use sponsor content and have had reasonable success at getting listed.

[tb]

sigh

[spookyx]

Originally Posted by sue-fl

But here is where I get confused again. Sponosr content? I have asked this many times to people. Guess I'll ask again. How do link list owners feel about sponsor content? I'm turning it down on my link list unless I know you, as that is all I was getting. I buy all my content as I was told by several LL owners to do so. Am I spending money where I don't need to be? HELP!

not all "sponsor content" is the same, many programs, including lotzadollars will allow trusted webmasters access to the main paysites to use content for sites/galleries. so its not content that is seen very often.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by spookyx

not all "sponsor content" is the same, many programs, including lotzadollars will allow trusted webmasters access to the main paysites to use content for sites/galleries. so its not content that is seen very often.

That's the hurdle you face just starting out. Send enough sales to be a trusted affiliate and a lot of programs will bend over backwards to help you sell them.

[madleinx]

Well....I'm still working on my first linklist, and I'm a newbie too, so don't take this as gospel by any stretch But I've never had a freesite rejected for sponsor content.

I think a lot of it depends on which sponsor. Using content from, say, Bangbros or AllInternal probably wouldn't work, but smaller sponsors that don't have their stuff everywhere seem to be okay.

But Sue, don't look at all the content you purchased as a waste. You'll never have to remove it because BigPornoPimpingCash decided to redirect, or shave you, or close down. All you'd have to do is switch out the links! Those of us using sponsor content would risk getting all our sites deleted, if not getting blacklisted, if we had to pull the site. Really, your own content is a much better alternative as an affiliate, because it puts you in control. If I could afford to buy three tons of it, I would.

tb -- are you sending hits to the full month option or the trial option for that site?

[spookyx]

Originally Posted by MadMax

That's the hurdle you face just starting out. Send enough sales to be a trusted affiliate and a lot of programs will bend over backwards to help you sell them.

We don't base it on sales. We talk with the webmaster one on one and go from there.

[tb]

Originally Posted by madleinx

tb -- are you sending hits to the full month option or the trial option for that site?

I am sending to the full month option.

Originally Posted by madleinx

Those of us using sponsor content would risk getting all our sites deleted, if not getting blacklisted

This is a very good and valid point. However how do you reconcile the fact that you may not be selling what is actually available on the paysite.

I have seen a couple of posts about the bad quality of some pay sites. Imagine shilling for one of those with content from a top private studio.

As an affilate I put in hours of work building and submitting, should I really have to join the paysite to see if the content I had to buy matches theirs?

I feel like sue-fi, confused.....

What I really want is to get a handle on the most winning formula.

Any suggestions are always appreciated.

[madleinx]

You might try sending to the trial then - would probably improve your ratio, but of course the payout on that is less. But you'd get rebills (hopefully!) to make up for it.

I don't think there's a concrete answer to the sponsor content question. (I almost always use it though) There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument. A mix of sponsor and purchased content is probably best, which one depending on the site you're promoting. All IMHO, of course

[Linkster]

Besides the already mentioned reasons for not using sponsor content - the content on "most" reality based sites and a heck of a lot of others nowadays is not real pictures, they are video caps - and most of the LLs will not accept free sites built with vid caps (they are usually really poor quality)
I've also noticed lately that even the sponsors that do provide real pictures are way overcompressing the full size pictures while making top-notch thumbs to go with them - again a major reason why free sites get declined.
Most larger LLs get many submits a day - sometimes hundreds (some even thousands) and in those submits you can see a group of 10 free sites built using the same exact content (whatever the fad is today). Again - a reason to turn them down.

Most LLs won't accept sponsor content if they already have the same content listed - kinda sucks for a surfer to wade through the same pic set over and over.
There are also some LLs that wont list sponsor content for some other reasons - like they build their own free sites to list on their own LLs using the same sponsors content (why would the want competition?) and last - some sposnors are not welcome at some LLs due to problems we have had in the past with certain sponsors like cheating, skimming, copyright infringement and the list goes on.

As you can see there are numerous reasons that a sponsors content would not be listed - and then of course there is the group of LL owners that think (and I happen to be partial to this side of things) that if you cant shell out $6 for a set of content you aren't really serious about the business - for someone just starting out, a daily expenditure of $6 towards making your business grow is nothing compared to what it costs to start a real business
Of course if this is just a hobby - then we dont want the submits anyway - 95% of them have to be removed in the first 6 months after listing, another 4% 1 year after listing and the 1% that stay listed are the ones that spent the $6 for the set of pics and are serious about making this their livlihood - sorry to be so blank about it but we just went through (and have already spent a few hundred hours over the last three weeks) removing over 9,000 links to hobbyists and the people that submitted sponsor content.

Last - most LL owners list in their rules whether ro not they accept sponnor content - should be pretty easy to figure out which LLs might list the stuff

[sue-fl]

Wow some great advice! I'm dead serious at doing this, though it not to pay bills on. I would love to make money at this what I make is more or less spending money. So I guess I'll keep buying content and building and submitting.

Can someone answer this for me though? With buying content, paying for hosting is it normal to spend more than you make for a while?? My first year anniversary of doing this is next month. I have made some money but not broke even yet. Is this normal for any one else? I just wondering if I'm wrong in thinking if I keep getting better at building free sites. And getting my (fake tgp, hub) filled up, and getting some traffic built up to my link site it will all come together?

Am I'm thinking right or should I be thinking that maybe I should hang it up? Would really like to hear some thoughts from all you on this....Thanks!

[Surfn]

sue-fl

That's probably about normal for a person with one year these days. I wouldn't hang it up. If I were just starting out I would find someone to mentor me on the skills I lacked. Sales techniques, traffic sources, etc.

You need to have a plan or goal. Make it attainable both short term and long term and stick to it. These days it all work work work.

They gravy days are over, I got fat in the 90's but they are long gone.

[Toby]

Sue, you're probably ahead of the curve. Many jump in to the business, have no plan, thinking they're gonna get rich, and give up after they find out that you actually have to work to make money.

After a long hiatus I got back into the biz in Oct of '03. So many changes since I'd been gone that had to essentially start from zero. I didn't make enough to even cover my hosting fees for the first six months. I kept pluggin' away, fine tuning here, reading and learning. Finally in April '04 I broke even for the month. Sales continued to increase each month until Sept 04' when things all just seemed to fall into place and sales doubled or more each month through the end of the year. To be honest, I'm not really sure what I did last Fall that made the difference, but I just kept at it, deleting unproductive sponsors, trying new ones, fine tuning my sites, etc.

This has gotten a bit long, but my point is, just keep at it the sales will come.

[ponygirl]

Sue...

I have been doing this for almost a year now too -although for a few months I was also working so I didn't spend the time like I have in the past 3 months or so...

I have noticed that my traffic is increasing, and a lot of my sales are coming from sites that were built months ago. I am finding my comfort level with sponsors, deciding which ones I like to promote and which ones work for me. I am also getting better (I hope ) at marketing and targetting my ads, so that makes a difference.

Long story short, I am making enough to cover my expenses - hosting & content. I buy all my own content, cheap stuff right now hehe, but mine - I can use it wherever I want, do whatever I want with it, and am not bound by some sponsors TOS or worrying if it gets pulled, etc.

I know the time & patience involved in starting up a business, and honestly I see more potential in this than the "real" business I started 2 yrs ago. I expect to start actually seeing a good profit by the end of the year.

Since this is more fun too, I'm sticking with it

See my sig - it's what I live by

Ponygirl

BTW - this is a great thread, lots of encouragement & support out there, it's great! |blowkiss|

[ArtWilliams]

Originally Posted by madleinx

Well....I'm still working on my first linklist, and I'm a newbie too, so don't take this as gospel by any stretch But I've never had a freesite rejected for sponsor content.

Likewise here but in my minimal experience I've found that sponsor content is much harder to convert. This is simply because everyone has seen it. If you stick to one niche like I've been then you see the same pics coming up over and over again.

My most successful strategy to date has been to purchase cheap content ($4-8 or so a set) and use that along with a sponsor to promote a site which matches the purchased pics.

---art

[sue-fl]

Thanks surfin, toby and ponygirl. That was just the encourgement I needed to hear. I love what I do also so I'm sticking at it!

Another question (sorry) about sponsors this time. Now that my traffic has really gotten good how long do you give a sponsor? I'm mainly using four that I send a lot of hits to. Is there a reasonable amount of time that you hang in their with them? The two I'm pushing this pay period my stats are:
1:1719
0:1999
That is for a two week period ending the 15th. I'm using other sponsors also but have sent most of my traffic to them. Hang in there? Or not a good sign? Thanks for the great help it's much appreciated!!

[Toby]

Sue, is that traffic from banners, free sites, or something else? I don't use a set "rule". I just try every method of promotion at my disposal and if none of them convert well, I cut my losses and move on. I try not to get too worried about raw numbers.

[Linkster]

One rule that I kinda set for myself a long time ago - and usually try to stick with - is on free sites, unless a sponsor goes out of biz or I figure out something that I really did wrong in the advertising text - I dont go back and touch the sites. I would rather spend that time making a new site for either submitting or just a free site to get listed on my hub and have for a rainy day submit.

I also pretty much from the start always made some sort of filtering hub - in my case it turned into a linklist that became successful - but it didnt start that way - it originally was just a categorized hub that listed all of my free sites, as well as having deeper pages that had FPA's - and that is where I sent all of my traffic instead of directly to the sponsor - that way I could get the surfer either hotter - or directed to a better choice.

When I put up a sponsor banner - it went to my hubs FPA for that sponsor - and had a directory at the bottom - that basically talked to the surfer and tried to figure out what they really wanted - it also gave me the ability to filter by someone really wanting to go to a paysite, someone that would go for a free trial, or someone that wasnt going to buy anything - and in the end I could always trade off that guy for a new surfer or two by sending them to a toplist or other trade where I knew I would get something in return.

Eventually I built in some traps for the non-buying surfers that would wrangle out even more traffic - and started having some flow around my own network of sites that were built the same way - and with the free sites I was building and other pages I kept adding to the site - the SEs picked up on it - and that provided even more flow.

Time to do this was pretty much over 2 years - before seeing a real substantial profit - at which time I was able to finally retire from my day job and do this full time

Then I converted over the hub to a Link list and havent looked back - but still make my own free sites and galleries - and loads of pages just for the search engines - and I believe that if you ask GG, Surfn, Tommy or any of the others that have been around for a long time - they all still spend hours a day making sites and pages - because in the end analysis - Its all about quantity!!!

I bolded that cause I was very hard-headed for the first two years - and wouldnt listen to Tommy and a few other friends - so I kept beating myself around about quality - everything had to be just right - well - I've learned my lesson

Sue as far as those ratios - Ive seen worse - but I would just experiment - build another free site that uses a little different approach - maybe all text or less banners and a different sponsor - you will find that magic match between you and some group of sites that will come back and slap you 6 months later

Last - an old lesson someone once gave me about how to write advertising on a free site:
Think of your free site as the back page ad on a Sunday newspaper - most people "glance" at that automobile ad and if a "special deal" on a car jumps out of the page at you - the ad worked! You just spent longer looking at that ad than the average surfer looks at a free site which is usually around 9 seconds.
Now - how do you get that surfer to look longer - and even more importantly how do you "hook them"
You have to have something that literally jumps out of the page at them - if you have a banner that is the regulation size - they wont see it - surfers eyes tune out that size graphic after the first few days of surfing - so if you use a banner it has to be unusually sized (BTW - this also gets around most of the banner blocking software programs surfers use)
I know - youre thinking - well I just cant write ad copy that well - here's a little suggestion - get a Sunday paper - look at those inserts for the national chains - what jumps out at you? Then get something like a Hustler magazine - read the ad copy on their ads - And I can tell you in most cases - dont ever use the text links that sponsors have Either 500 people have already used them, or they dont know how to write ads either.
Thats the reason that some people keep repeating the mantra of finding a niche that you are passionate about to sell - they dont know why they keep repeating the same thing over and over - but here is the reason - you will naturally write better ad text if you know the subject and either enjoy or at least fantasize about the niche Also - don't be real picky about typos - a well-placed typo can attract attention Getting the theme here - dont just put out a free site that says "you can get access to this site here - click here" when you could say "Nasty midgets the right size for munching pussy standing up"

Seriously - the more you look at how the professional advertising firms write ads - the more you can practice it and the better you will become at it.

[Toby]

Nothing in this post of substance, just a suggestion to back up one post and re-read Linkster's post again. There is way too much great information there for all of it to sink in reading it just once.