Greenguy & Jim's Official Rage Cash Statement

furrygirl · 2005-08-20, 09:03 AM

Susanna, really, sometimes less is more, you know?

I find ethical and political discussions to be the most interesting things that come up on boards, and like other people here, I'm "on your side" in many ways, but it's hard to get people to listen to your side when you're saying that everyone who's not avidly agreeing with you supports rape. And I'm a *chick* saying that this time around, so maybe it might sounds more palatable coming from me.

I don't agree at all with the idea of "assaulting" sleeping women, but I also personally like fantasy, roleplay, and kink with my sex and porn, so long as it is clearly defined as fantasy. My problem with the site is about context and content-framing, which make all the difference in my mind. (Context is a great topic for banter, and I think anyone profiting from content that is not of themselves naked has sometime to say about how they frame their porn.)

I do think this is an open-ended discussion, and I'd love to see it keep going, so it's a shame that in your passion for women's rights, I think you're killing the thread.

Trixie (also female) and I both proposed that non-consensual fantasy sites provide some sort of disclaimer and make it abundantly clear to surfers that it's just roleplay. I see it as a good chance for webmasters to provide a smidge of education to their surfers about kinky lifestyles and about the important elements of trust, consent, and communication.

I think that roleplay is really fucking hot, and as an adult, I can see roleplay porn and say, "this is not real, these are actors", and it can still be fun. I think a move away from text that seemingly glorifies "real" non-consensual sex and a move towards "fantasy roleplay" is a good idea, and as I said before, attracts the real "fantasy" folk, and repels the scum you don't want to do business with anyhow. It seems like a win-win to me.

Do you have a sort of, well, positive solutions? Or, are you saying that any portrayal on non-consensual sex shouldn't exist at all? Content, or copy?

Linkster · 2005-08-20, 10:59 AM

After much thought and looking over my stories category on my link list (that was an eye-opener) and seeing that Rage has put a disclaimer on the mother-daughter tour - I believe I will be starting a little promoting of them

Being very old, it probably just takes me longer to get things to sink in

docholly · 2005-08-20, 11:50 AM

I've been following this post from the beginning reading all the pros and cons.. and i have the same internal feeling that i have when i hear GWB speak.. either your are "for" everything I say or you are not a patriot.. etc..

What, for me, it boils down to is that I have a choice. I, as a wm, can choose to promote or not promote sites that I personally find violates my ethics or just that I don't think I'd be able to do a good job at writing copy for. There are 1000's of sites out that that I can do a GOOD job promoting.

For example: I promote Trixie and all the sites that fall under WebWhoreBucks. I love her stuff, i love the sites, i love the writing and i love promoting her. (see my siggy if you want to promote her too)

BUT i do not promote her "bloody trixie" site myself. i do post her FHG on my TGP but I don't actively promote that site. I don't feel I could do justice to the copy I'd be writing. I don't feel I'd be able to portray that in such a manner that would respect what she is trying to do and sell the surfer at the same time. It's my option.

Likewise with RAGE.. there are some sites I instantly took to and some that I'll leave alone. This doesn't make me anti-fem, or promoting rape because i'm selling their Fucked Tits or Creamed feet sites.. just my preference as a wm.

Before the board crash a few years ago..i'd written a post on ethics among adult webmasters over a site i found while surfing that showed big "african' men in tribal dress with pictures stolen from the movie Shaka Zulu, fucking little white women they'd 'carried' off to their village.. I found it disgusting and was pretty angry about their stealing the pictures from Shaka. But what i realized after my anger settled down was the best way for me personally to 'rage' against this was to NOT promote that sponsor AND to portray interracial love in a good and positive way.. choices..

|blinky|

hmm for some reason i'm very wordy today..

furrygirl · 2005-08-20, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docholly

BUT i do not promote her "bloody trixie" site myself. i do post her FHG on my TGP but I don't actively promote that site. I don't feel I could do justice to the copy I'd be writing. I don't feel I'd be able to portray that in such a manner that would respect what she is trying to do and sell the surfer at the same time.

I think this deserves highlighting.

I think most people promote things they have no idea how to sell, and it applies extra for amateur or small niche sites. So many of my affiliates sell me as a "horny teen who sucks cock", but when a surfer arrives at my site, it's not at all "teen", and I have little hardcore content. People really should stick to what they know, which is going to benefit everyone's bottom line in the long run.

susanna · 2005-08-20, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furrygirl

Susanna, really, sometimes less is more, you know?

I don't agree at all with the idea of "assaulting" sleeping women, but I also personally like fantasy, roleplay, and kink with my sex and porn, so long as it is clearly defined as fantasy. My problem with the site is about context and content-framing, which make all the difference in my mind.

Do you have a sort of, well, positive solutions? Or, are you saying that any portrayal on non-consensual sex shouldn't exist at all? Content, or copy?

If you have read all my posts then you know I dont have a problem with fantasy, I do however have a problem with the fantasy being about non-consentual sex. Its not thread killing to "say it like it is". You have chosen to keep this thread going too ha ha ha

I have also said that I would love to see a disclaimer (linkster, the mother daughter site is not an issue to me, consenting adults, related or not, can do as they please ADULTS...incest to me is about children...again my opinion but I am not varying from what my opinion is on consent and non-consent).

This is not about womens rights...I have never said it was about womens rights. At the moment it is womens rights being trampled on. I am not a feminist. I do not want women placed above men ya da ya da. I would like to see a smidge of consentualism.

I have also said in a post that a domain change would be half the battle. Of course this is not terribly hard but it means admitting something which I am not sure that the site owners will admit. Time will tell I guess.

I agree with some others that it could just get them in trouble one day which everyone else will pipe in and say "so its their business what do you care". I care that my business will be damaged by people pushing the limit.

I had a conversation with someone recently about how fuckin hot the site would be if they removed the non-consent. If they talked about sleeping-sex vs. sexual assault. Most everyone has had someone wake them up during sleep by slowly caressing, sucking or whatever. It is hot, it is pleasure. Heck I would buy em a new domain ha ha ha

The text still talks of non-consentualism which is not even the somnophilia kink. It is the sadist kink, the rapist kink what ever, its about harming women and taking what they want whether the gal wants it or not.

I have offered to re-write some text for them, no strings attached, if they didnt think it was hot they didnt have to use it.

I say portrayal of non-consent is never appropriate. Its not even a fantasy to have non-consentual sex. Sorry. It is true deviant behaviour.

I might even like a front of tour solo disclaimer that says "this is fantasy role play, we intend no harm, we dont want you to hurt women" etc.

What are your positive solutions?

Coolegg · 2005-08-20, 01:42 PM

The URL says it all... sleepASSAULT.com. And the text on the tour makes it a cut-and-dry case, IMO. It's not a sex-while-she's-sleeping fantasy site; it's a sexaul-ASSAULT-while-she's-not-conscious fantasy site.

There's no getting away from the word ASSAULT in the url and title, legally or ethically.

Not cool RageCash, IMO.

furrygirl · 2005-08-20, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanna

What are your positive solutions?

I've made two wordy posts with positive solutions, if you haven't taken the time to read them, I'm not spelling it out again. (Or maybe you have, since you're essentially just re-hashing what I wrote.)

I think you're just getting defensive with that last comment, like you don't want to be upstaged or something. I'm not trying to upstage you, I'd just rather shift this useful thread away from a battle of the sexes.

susanna · 2005-08-20, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by furrygirl

I've made two wordy posts with positive solutions, if you haven't taken the time to read them, I'm not spelling it out again. (Or maybe you have, since you're essentially just re-hashing what I wrote.)

I think you're just getting defensive with that last comment, like you don't want to be upstaged or something. I'm not trying to upstage you, I'd just rather shift this useful thread away from a battle of the sexes.

I have read your posts yes, infact I commented on them being well worded. I have said all those things before you did, there are other threads. You asked me what my positive solutions are...I rehashed what I have already said ha ha ha

You sound like your getting defensive now. We might as well quit this questioning each other since I think its taking this thread in a direction away from the point of it... and oh my is it thread killing?

Back to the regular scheduled discussion of the inappropriateness of having "fantasy sites" on the net about non-consentual sex.

furrygirl · 2005-08-20, 11:39 PM

Susanna

It's hard to have a rational, productive debate with someone who can't even decide what they're trying to convince me of. You're really all over the place with your posts, and I don't think I'm the only one who's a bit bewildered.

On the one hand, you're accusing anyone who doesn't hate Sleep Assault of being rapist-sympathizers and trying to profit from hurting women, and on the other, you find fantasy sleep-fucking is extremely sexy.

In the same paragraph, you avail yourself of being labeled a "feminist" and say that this debate has nothing to do with "women's rights", but follow it with, "At the moment it is womens rights being trampled on."

You say that you think a disclaimer and a domain name change would be a good solution, but then you say that all non-consensual fantasies are "never appropriate" and "true deviant behaviour."

Which is it? What are you talking about? Can you, in 200 words or less, define the problem with Sleep Assault, provide a solution, and a plan for how a fix could be implemented? Think of it like a debate class assignment or something. Or should the company just go outside and smash all their hard drives and start making romantic erotica to suit your site?

It's also hard to take someone seriously who ends or segments their sentences with "ha ha ha" or ellipses and doesn't know the correct spelling of what it is that they're arguing about. (Yes, I'm a grammar asshole, because I believe that if one is trying to convey their ideas in a medium of works, they should know how to write. If one is trying to communicate ideas using photos, for example, I expect better than 320x240 web cam stills.) You've repeatedly bragged about your "high IQ" and how you're the smart, conscientious one here, so act like it. Know what it is that you're trying to convey to us, keep on topic, and stick to your guns.

2005-08-20, 09:03 AM	#1
furrygirl No offence Apu, but when they were handing out religions you must have been out taking a whizz Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 281	Susanna, really, sometimes less is more, you know? I find ethical and political discussions to be the most interesting things that come up on boards, and like other people here, I'm "on your side" in many ways, but it's hard to get people to listen to your side when you're saying that everyone who's not avidly agreeing with you supports rape. And I'm a chick saying that this time around, so maybe it might sounds more palatable coming from me. I don't agree at all with the idea of "assaulting" sleeping women, but I also personally like fantasy, roleplay, and kink with my sex and porn, so long as it is clearly defined as fantasy. My problem with the site is about context and content-framing, which make all the difference in my mind. (Context is a great topic for banter, and I think anyone profiting from content that is not of themselves naked has sometime to say about how they frame their porn.) I do think this is an open-ended discussion, and I'd love to see it keep going, so it's a shame that in your passion for women's rights, I think you're killing the thread. Trixie (also female) and I both proposed that non-consensual fantasy sites provide some sort of disclaimer and make it abundantly clear to surfers that it's just roleplay. I see it as a good chance for webmasters to provide a smidge of education to their surfers about kinky lifestyles and about the important elements of trust, consent, and communication. I think that roleplay is really fucking hot, and as an adult, I can see roleplay porn and say, "this is not real, these are actors", and it can still be fun. I think a move away from text that seemingly glorifies "real" non-consensual sex and a move towards "fantasy roleplay" is a good idea, and as I said before, attracts the real "fantasy" folk, and repels the scum you don't want to do business with anyhow. It seems like a win-win to me. Do you have a sort of, well, positive solutions? Or, are you saying that any portrayal on non-consensual sex shouldn't exist at all? Content, or copy? __________________ furrygirl.com & vegporn.com & vegsexshop.com & eroticred.com

2005-08-20, 10:59 AM	#2
Linkster NO! Im not a female - but being a dragon, I do eat them. Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sex Delta Posts: 5,084	After much thought and looking over my stories category on my link list (that was an eye-opener) and seeing that Rage has put a disclaimer on the mother-daughter tour - I believe I will be starting a little promoting of them Being very old, it probably just takes me longer to get things to sink in __________________ Pussy Chompers Porn Links NSCash

2005-08-20, 11:50 AM	#3
docholly Nothing funnier than the ridiculous faces you people make mid-coitus Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sin-City USA Posts: 4,973	I've been following this post from the beginning reading all the pros and cons.. and i have the same internal feeling that i have when i hear GWB speak.. either your are "for" everything I say or you are not a patriot.. etc.. What, for me, it boils down to is that I have a choice. I, as a wm, can choose to promote or not promote sites that I personally find violates my ethics or just that I don't think I'd be able to do a good job at writing copy for. There are 1000's of sites out that that I can do a GOOD job promoting. For example: I promote Trixie and all the sites that fall under WebWhoreBucks. I love her stuff, i love the sites, i love the writing and i love promoting her. (see my siggy if you want to promote her too) BUT i do not promote her "bloody trixie" site myself. i do post her FHG on my TGP but I don't actively promote that site. I don't feel I could do justice to the copy I'd be writing. I don't feel I'd be able to portray that in such a manner that would respect what she is trying to do and sell the surfer at the same time. It's my option. Likewise with RAGE.. there are some sites I instantly took to and some that I'll leave alone. This doesn't make me anti-fem, or promoting rape because i'm selling their Fucked Tits or Creamed feet sites.. just my preference as a wm. Before the board crash a few years ago..i'd written a post on ethics among adult webmasters over a site i found while surfing that showed big "african' men in tribal dress with pictures stolen from the movie Shaka Zulu, fucking little white women they'd 'carried' off to their village.. I found it disgusting and was pretty angry about their stealing the pictures from Shaka. But what i realized after my anger settled down was the best way for me personally to 'rage' against this was to NOT promote that sponsor AND to portray interracial love in a good and positive way.. choices.. \|blinky\| hmm for some reason i'm very wordy today.. __________________ Support Indie Porn Sites OMGoddess You know you need some Bling!!

2005-08-20, 11:39 PM	#9
furrygirl No offence Apu, but when they were handing out religions you must have been out taking a whizz Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 281	Susanna It's hard to have a rational, productive debate with someone who can't even decide what they're trying to convince me of. You're really all over the place with your posts, and I don't think I'm the only one who's a bit bewildered. On the one hand, you're accusing anyone who doesn't hate Sleep Assault of being rapist-sympathizers and trying to profit from hurting women, and on the other, you find fantasy sleep-fucking is extremely sexy. In the same paragraph, you avail yourself of being labeled a "feminist" and say that this debate has nothing to do with "women's rights", but follow it with, "At the moment it is womens rights being trampled on." You say that you think a disclaimer and a domain name change would be a good solution, but then you say that all non-consensual fantasies are "never appropriate" and "true deviant behaviour." Which is it? What are you talking about? Can you, in 200 words or less, define the problem with Sleep Assault, provide a solution, and a plan for how a fix could be implemented? Think of it like a debate class assignment or something. Or should the company just go outside and smash all their hard drives and start making romantic erotica to suit your site? It's also hard to take someone seriously who ends or segments their sentences with "ha ha ha" or ellipses and doesn't know the correct spelling of what it is that they're arguing about. (Yes, I'm a grammar asshole, because I believe that if one is trying to convey their ideas in a medium of works, they should know how to write. If one is trying to communicate ideas using photos, for example, I expect better than 320x240 web cam stills.) You've repeatedly bragged about your "high IQ" and how you're the smart, conscientious one here, so act like it. Know what it is that you're trying to convey to us, keep on topic, and stick to your guns. __________________ furrygirl.com & vegporn.com & vegsexshop.com & eroticred.com

2005-08-20, 01:42 PM	#6
Coolegg Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know? Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 13	The URL says it all... sleepASSAULT.com. And the text on the tour makes it a cut-and-dry case, IMO. It's not a sex-while-she's-sleeping fantasy site; it's a sexaul-ASSAULT-while-she's-not-conscious fantasy site. There's no getting away from the word ASSAULT in the url and title, legally or ethically. Not cool RageCash, IMO.