Why sites like Sleep Assualt are a bad idea

[RawAlex]

Tigermom, I think the issues comes because some people can't tell the difference and try to turn the harmless sexual fantasy into reality with an unwilling third party.

We know that everyone gets paid, everyone signs a model release, and everyone is old enough and willing. But the general public doesn't, and telling them about it could in fact kill the fantasies of the 99% of clients who are not going to have an issue with the stuff.

It is a really difficult situation.

How many people died from lying in the middle of a highway after that college football movie? There are just enough people dumb enough to try something to make it a problem.

Alex

[Seska]

As pornographers we walk a very delicate and dangerous line. Many of our consumers want to believe what they see. They want the sex to be real, the arousal to be real, the pain to be real, etc... They want us to be different from mainstream Hollywood productions (with its stunt people, saftey measures and well rescted actors).

With the Internet, as well as adult video companies (especially those workign in the fringe areas of the industry) it is hard for the general public to know what is acting and what is not. That can increase people's interest in a product or it can turn them off. Some people want it to be very clear that what they are seing is safe, sane and consenual (and accept it is a fantasy version of sexuality), while others want the exact oppositie or at least hope for the illusion of the opposite.

Like Alex said there are a bunch of porn consumers who don't care one bit about the well being of performers or the porn industry in general as long as they get off on what they see.

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by Seska

As pornographers we walk a very delicate and dangerous line. Many of our consumers want to believe what they see. They want the sex to be real, the arousal to be real, the pain to be real, etc... They want us to be different from mainstream Hollywood productions (with its stunt people, saftey measures and well rescted actors).

With the Internet, as well as adult video companies (especially those workign in the fringe areas of the industry) it is hard for the general public to know what is acting and what is not. That can increase people's interest in a product or it can turn them off. Some people want it to be very clear that what they are seing is safe, sane and consenual (and accept it is a fantasy version of sexuality), while others want the exact oppositie or at least hope for the illusion of the opposite.

Like Alex said there are a bunch of porn consumers who don't care one bit about the well being of performers or the porn industry in general as long as they get off on what they see.

Good points Seska

There are some that push the limits too far however. Last night, I rejected a drunk girls site. While I don't like those sites period. This one was way over the line. The free site and the paysite both made it quite clear that the girl was in fact being fed booze to make her compliant. Okay, that's pretty much the focus of most of those sites...which is why I don't personally peddle that stuff. But yea...it's fantasy...it's not real...etc..

The real difference was noticed when I watched a couple of the sponsor watermarked video clips on the free site. Either this girl was an amazing actress (not likely)...or she REALLY was falling down drunk. At one point, as the guy was trying to get her to suck his cock...she was saying something to the effect of "I don't want to". Of course the guys kept pushing until she complied. In the other clip I watched...the girl could barely keep her balance on hands and knees...the guy was kinda shoring her up as he fucked her. This girl was obviously polluted out of her mind...you could see it on her face...not fantasy...reality.

This mysoginistic kind of shit that calls consent into question is bad for the business

[Platinum Bryan]

Some pople are just fucked up period!!

[Toolz]

Originally Posted by MrYum

Good points Seska

There are some that push the limits too far however. Last night, I rejected a drunk girls site. While I don't like those sites period. This one was way over the line. The free site and the paysite both made it quite clear that the girl was in fact being fed booze to make her compliant. Okay, that's pretty much the focus of most of those sites...which is why I don't personally peddle that stuff. But yea...it's fantasy...it's not real...etc..

The real difference was noticed when I watched a couple of the sponsor watermarked video clips on the free site. Either this girl was an amazing actress (not likely)...or she REALLY was falling down drunk. At one point, as the guy was trying to get her to suck his cock...she was saying something to the effect of "I don't want to". Of course the guys kept pushing until she complied. In the other clip I watched...the girl could barely keep her balance on hands and knees...the guy was kinda shoring her up as he fucked her. This girl was obviously polluted out of her mind...you could see it on her face...not fantasy...reality.

This mysoginistic kind of shit that calls consent into question is bad for the business

Beyond that and I'm not a content producer but I'm about 99% sure that people under the influence of drugs/booze aren't required to fullfill a contract in this case the contract that she signed for the content to be produced, thus all content would be deemed illegal if the actress ever decided to persue action against the producers.

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by Toolz

Beyond that and I'm not a content producer but I'm about 99% sure that people under the influence of drugs/booze aren't required to fullfill a contract in this case the contract that she signed for the content to be produced, thus all content would be deemed illegal if the actress ever decided to persue action against the producers.

I don't know the legal ramifications of this type of 'content'. Frankly, I have a difficult time even referring to this crap as content. I would suspect you're right though...if a model ever pursued legal action, someone's ass would be in a sling.

I've always thought the issue of consent was absolutely critical in this business. The two words that have been my motto since getting involved in adult are 'consenting adults'. Anytime either of those words are called into question, it's got bad things written all over it...and not something I'd touch with the proverbial 10 foot pole. Given the current political climate, I think this 'so drunk we can make her do anything' kind of crap just gives more ammunition to the other side

[karomesis]

so long as individuals are reluctant to accept responsibility for their actions, they will, given proper training, attempt to blame their behavoir on anything and everything. Hey I robbed a bank because venus was out of alignment with pluto, or my father beat me when I was a child.So long as there are self righteous peoples, there will be individuals who disagree with one particular deviancy or another. There are some women who enjoy with great pleasure being chocked in order to orgasm intensely, it should be their perogative to do so, and no ones business but theirs if they suffer a mishap in the process. I enjoy driving cars very, very fast, If I die in a horrible wreck, It is my problem not anyone elses.

To those of you who believe that this "type" of site offers the requisite ammunition for prohibition, I will only say that the line is forever being changed, I am sure hugh heffner could speak on this peculiar phenomenon, in his heyday he was a veritable monster for revealing of all things; a breast|shocking| now it has come to this. They will ALWAYS look for an excuse to prohibit what they do not agree with, be it "sleepattack" sites or womens faces in the middle east. I know from experience, as I had the unfortunate occurence of being a fundamental baptist a few years ago> It was only my insatiable lust for information that saved me from a life of being a brainwashed sheep, I live to learn, and I soon learned that there was absolutely no proof for any religious doctrine whatsoever. So now I despise religion. I respect science, not fairy tales. And freedom of choice and self responsibility, not prohibition because there are individuals who are morons.

[Jim]

I have this great idea..
Let's all get together someplace down south and have a good old fashioned Book Burning

[Seska]

I have seen modelling and porn performing contracts that state that the person signing them was not under the influence of drugs or alcholol. It would be interesting to know if they are still valid if the work required of the person included drinking real alcohol.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Jim

I have this great idea..
Let's all get together someplace down south and have a good old fashioned Book Burning

Why not just burn the Internet gateways

[Jim]

Surfn, we have to start with the books, then move to the movies, then music, then videos, then video games and then and only then we can burn the net.

[Jim]

"If all printers were determined not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1730

[susanna]

Originally Posted by Jim

"If all printers were determined not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1730

that must mean that rape and child rape are ok because heaven forbid we should worry about offending someone.

I like to think (and I am often proven wrong) that even a webmaster has morals.

[american perv]

the tv news makes kids not care about gun violence and shoot up the schools but no one holds them responsible

[susanna]

Originally Posted by american perv

the tv news makes kids not care about gun violence and shoot up the schools but no one holds them responsible

Is that so?

I live in Canada...we get exactly the same shows that you do in the US and we do not have kids going to school and shooting people. There has been two incidences that I can think of in the last 40 years and one of them was at a University.


What is the difference? I don't know but it certainly isnt the tv shows.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by susanna

that must mean that rape and child rape are ok because heaven forbid we should worry about offending someone.

I like to think (and I am often proven wrong) that even a webmaster has morals.

As you can easily see, I am not the author of that post. Although, I wish I was that smart.

[american perv]

Originally Posted by susanna

Is that so?

I live in Canada...we get exactly the same shows that you do in the US and we do not have kids going to school and shooting people. There has been two incidences that I can think of in the last 40 years and one of them was at a University.


What is the difference? I don't know but it certainly isnt the tv shows.

Its the evening news shows. Not 20/20 and 48 hours and that crap, I mean the local evening news.

Im pretty sure you don't watch the same news we do, where they glorify police chases, talk about shootings all the time, its morbid.

[american perv]

Originally Posted by susanna

Is that so?

I live in Canada...we get exactly the same shows that you do in the US and we do not have kids going to school and shooting people. There has been two incidences that I can think of in the last 40 years and one of them was at a University.


What is the difference? I don't know but it certainly isnt the tv shows.

Also, I don't know what your local and national news shows report from various war reports, but ours are very graphic. Seeing dead bodies during dinner is nothing new.

[Ramster]

You cannot compare Canada to the US. The US has 10 times the population so it should have 10 times the violence and such. However it is well known the US is high in gun violence compared to other countries.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Ramster

You cannot compare Canada to the US. The US has 10 times the population so it should have 10 times the violence and such. However it is well known the US is high in gun violence compared to other countries.

Who you calling 10x more violent Willis?

[karomesis]

there are, of course, variables which need to be statistically accounted for before a summation of the data can be made such as; per capita crime rate, socioeconomic status, race, and others that are "controversial". It is a well known fact that blacks commit more violent crime per capita that other races in the united states, is this "controversial"? why? because of race? is it not a well known fact that races are different? isn't that why they are called "races?

There is also an unfortunate occurence called the "cinderella effect" by evolutionary psychologists that says stepparents will not treat their stepchildren as well as their own children and will treat them with less than favorable affection. Statistics prove this as well, determining that step children are up to 40x more likely to be mistreated and killed by a stepparent than by a bilogical parent.

[tigermom]

Originally Posted by karomesis

there are, of course, variables which need to be statistically accounted for before a summation of the data can be made such as; per capita crime rate, socioeconomic status, race, and others that are "controversial". It is a well known fact that blacks commit more violent crime per capita that other races in the united states, is this "controversial"? why? because of race? is it not a well known fact that races are different? isn't that why they are called "races?

They are slightly different, sure, but that doesn't mean those differences necessarily account for things like level of violence. There are interim causes here. Poor people are more involved in crime, and blacks on general are more poor, so blacks are more involved in crime. This is not necessarily some genetic thing related to their race... The right way to check and see if the race is the cause would be to compare groups of blacks and whites of the same socio-economic status. I am not aware of any such studies and would be interesting to see if they find a difference.

Assuming that it's simply a matter of "races being different" is very very dangerous. It would imply that someone is more prone to violence solely because he was born into a certain ethnic group, something which he has zero control of and will never be able to change. I do believe it's callled racism?

Originally Posted by karomesis

There is also an unfortunate occurence called the "cinderella effect" by evolutionary psychologists that says stepparents will not treat their stepchildren as well as their own children and will treat them with less than favorable affection. Statistics prove this as well, determining that step children are up to 40x more likely to be mistreated and killed by a stepparent than by a bilogical parent.

Again, that statistic isn't really surprising, if you consider some of the interim causes involved here. I don't know about other countries, but here the state encourages families to adopt children by offering monetary incentives. It's more than possible that some of these families adopt the children, at least partially because of financial reasons and not out of true commitment. What's more, adopted children, especially those adopted at an older age (though not only), maybe more likely to have behavioral problems (no fault of theirs perhaps, given the poor start in life), hence bring about a less favorable treatment from the adopting parents. Just thoughts here, not saying this is the case, only that you need to treat researches with a grain of salt and look at them in a critical way.

[karomesis]

Again, that statistic isn't really surprising, if you consider some of the interim causes involved here. I don't know about other countries, but here the state encourages families to adopt children by offering monetary incentives. It's more than possible that some of these families adopt the children, at least partially because of financial reasons and not out of true commitment. What's more, adopted children, especially those adopted at an older age (though not only), maybe more likely to have behavioral problems (no fault of theirs perhaps, given the poor start in life), hence bring about a less favorable treatment from the adopting parents. Just thoughts here, not saying this is the case, only that you need to treat researches with a grain of salt and look at them in a critical way.

tigermom, Are you familiar with evolutionary psychology? or cognitive science? It is difficult to entertain your comments seriously if you are unfamiliar with the topic being discussed. I realize that many have been given a short stick;I had some really rough times in the past, so what. Does that mean I have a right to commit crimes and put my fellow citizenry in fear because I "had a rough start"?I moved on with my life and tried to better myself, that is what others should do as well.

I treat alot of researchers with that grain of salt you speak of, but when there are mountains of evidence in their favor I am reluctant to disagree with the findings.I could point you to a few of the sources of my information, here are two for your review http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homep...blications.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

Baysiean statistics are a favorite of mine due to their inherent ability to gather accurate data sets based on vague information like fuzzy logic. That is what I use to determine what researchers are worth listening to, I can wade through the rivers of bullshit in science while attempting to find the gold nuggets that exist for the determined.

[tigermom]

Originally Posted by karomesis

tigermom, Are you familiar with evolutionary psychology? or cognitive science? It is difficult to entertain your comments seriously if you are unfamiliar with the topic being discussed.

As it happens, I am quite familiar with research methods. Hopefully 5 university courses on the subject, both in BA and MA studies are enough for you to entertain my comments seriously?

Originally Posted by karomesis

I realize that many have been given a short stick;I had some really rough times in the past, so what. Does that mean I have a right to commit crimes and put my fellow citizenry in fear because I "had a rough start"?I moved on with my life and tried to better myself, that is what others should do as well.

This is hardly the issue here. No one is talking about what any other individual should or should not do or even does or does not do. This is about proper analysis of research data. Saying that race correlates to the level of crime is a simplistic reading of statistics, that was all I was saying. Being as there are so many other factors involved.

My point was that lower socio-economic status correlates to crime. And that race and socio-economic status also correlate. Does that mean that either one's socio economic background, or one's race, should be used as an excuse to commit crime? of course not.

I am glad to see that you do so much reading. If you can kindly refer me to a specific research that compares crime level by race and includes the socio-economic factor into the equation, that would certainly make an interesting read for me.

[tigermom]

BTW, forgot to mention I did take several courses in psychology/cognitive science, but that's not really the relevant field here. This is social sciences - it's a matter of knowing how to interpret statistics collected in research, not understanding the individual.