Fur - how can anybody be comfortable with this?

[Jim]

Both of my daughters tried to stop eating meat. For both of them, it ended on Thanksgiving

Really, I wish Beef didn't taste so damn good. And I wish I could stop getting pepperoni on my pizza...I know it would be much healthier but, it's just too tasty and I am too weak

But, my hat's off to you Cleo for being able to do it. My only real problem is peta. They are just homeland terrorist's with flunkies to do the dirty work. Could you imagine if everyone did what peta wants them to do? They want all animals to run free. Imagine the cat population, the dog population...all running the streets making more and more babies.

And what about the number 2 person at peta? She has diabetes and uses drugs that were tested on animals. Her response when asked..."It's OK because she gets to stay alive to save more animals".

ehhh...I am getting way off track. peta is just one of those hot buttons with me. Years ago, I worked with an ex-employee of peta and even though he still believed in what they were doing, by telling me, he convinced me they were just a cult.

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by Jim

Really, I wish Beef didn't taste so damn good. And I wish I could stop getting pepperoni on my pizza...I know it would be much healthier but, it's just too tasty and I am too weak

I dunno Jim... all that cheese? What're a few pepperoni gonna do?

I wish I could say I've been a vegetarian for 20 years... but I'm just a bit too young for that. Personally, I believe more humans could be fed if we stopped giving our food to all the animals... but how do you convince someone who likes meat that we have molars for a reason, and those few incisors in our jaws were originally intended for opening fruit skins? Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

That aside, in some parts of the world the only thing you can grow is cattle, wich can thrive on wild grasses. Just say a blessing before you blow it's brains out... or whatever quick method of execution people do.

As for skinning alive? I'm gonna put my rose colored shades back on now, and pretend I didn't read that.

[Cleo]

Originally Posted by virgohippy

I wish I could say I've been a vegetarian for 20 years... but I'm just a bit too young for that. Personally, I believe more humans could be fed if we stopped giving our food to all the animals... but how do you convince someone who likes meat that we have molars for a reason, and those few incisors in our jaws were originally intended for opening fruit skins? Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

From what I've read most primates, that is what we are, eat grubs, insects, fruits, and vegetables.

[karomesis]

Objectively arguing morality is simliar to arguing taste, which, contrary to popular opinion, cannot ever be won by either side.

The lifeforms on this planet arose through a process that is ruthless and heartless......evolution. Jim was hinting at the results of it when he commented on our incisors. I may agree or disagree with machiavelli, but his principles hold true regardless.

In probably less than 15 years or so we will have artificial meat and other animal products that taste exactly like the real thing but are grown in labs using nanotech, saving billions and billions of dollars in the process.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by karomesis

Objectively arguing morality is simliar to arguing taste, which, contrary to popular opinion, cannot ever be won by either side.

The lifeforms on this planet arose through a process that is ruthless and heartless......evolution. Jim was hinting at the results of it when he commented on our incisors. I may agree or disagree with machiavelli, but his principles hold true regardless.

In probably less than 15 years or so we will have artificial meat and other animal products that taste exactly like the real thing but are grown in labs using nanotech, saving billions and billions of dollars in the process.

In a philosophy class I would agree with you. Outside the world of academia, not entirely. All the rules and conventions most of us live by, whether we agree with them or not, are based on moral values and without them society would fall apart.

Yes, "evolution" (up to a certain point) made the world what it is, but natural selection hasn't been a factor in the development of human societies for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. And this is exactly what sets us apart from animals; compassion and empathy, the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, or even have a concept of right and wrong (based on moral values). Knowing when to do the right thing. Or self-servingly act against that knowledge no matter who gets hurt.

Me, I'm really looking forward to a nice, juicy nano-burger.

[karomesis]

All the rules and conventions most of us live by, whether we agree with them or not, are based on moral values and without them society would fall apart.

"morality" is actually a societally placed construct that predetermines the likelyhood of this or that value that just so happens to be in vogue at any given time. Once we have a real AI, the merits of my argument will become much more apparent.
How will an artificial intelligence learn morals? and from whom? fanatical muslims? perhaps an odd skinhead or two? If democracy, then when do we start? It cannot be "moral" according to everyone, which means to some it will be immoral.

Yes, "evolution" (up to a certain point) made the world what it is, but natural selection hasn't been a factor in the development of human societies for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. And this is exactly what sets us apart from animals; compassion and empathy, the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, or even have a concept of right and wrong (based on moral values). Knowing when to do the right thing. Or self-servingly act against that knowledge no matter who gets hurt.

A quick perusal of this subject will quickly dispell any notions of human superiority over other animals. Even though we no longer kill mammoth, it certainly doesn't mean we lack the primitive impulses and desires of our ancestors. They have just become less pronounced to the casual observer.

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homep...blications.htm

In evo psych topics like the "cinderella effect" are discussed. that is the statistical probability of harm a child will be either injured or killed by a stepparent, which is much greater than from a biological parent. Did you also know that women are most likely to cheat during ovulation? when her chances of becoming pregnant are far more likely. I could go on and on with examples, but this is supposed to be a porn forum so I'll shut up now.