A question for my fellow lady webmasters.

[Cherie]

Oh, so many interesting threads tangled together here I don't even know where to begin!

It would be a very interesting test, I think, if one of the "For Women" LL owners added some sort of special section for the rougher stuff.

I remember reading My Secret Garden, but I didn't know she wrote a followup. I base my assesment on just my own experiences and the people I've met. I have personally gone hunting for the more violent stuff, and whenever I find it I'm not the only woman there looking. Rape fantasies may only be a very tiny proportion of all female fantasies but that doesn't mean there aren't millions of women having them; possibly even enough to support it as a porn niche. And this isn't even beginning to touch the other side of this particular coin, extreme Femdom fantasies.

Many feminists, as well as the Jesus-police, would object to the whole "she ended up enjoying it" theme of the classic female rape fantasy; after all it's not how real women really react to real crimes. But (leaving aside the issue of whether the availablity of such porn somehow turns men into rapists, which is itself highly debatable) I am not so sure that *that* style of fantasy is actually the norm.

For instance, my in own fantasies of this type, I prefer to imagine acts that not only would I *not* do in real life, but which are physically impossible - accosted by a handsome stranger and "forced" to have an orgasm I can play at anytime with dh. Eg. the guys always have dicks as big around as your arm and can cum seventeen times in three hours, shooting voluminous loads each time. (Hence the cartoons, rather than pics or movies.) Perhaps because there's not much I really wouldn't do with a consenting partner, I guess I feel the need for a complete break from the possible in these fantasies. (Could this be a sort of alternate response to the lessening of sexual guilt observed by Nancy Friday?) Interestingly enough, in my fantasies I also often (but not exclusively) assume the role of the male aggressor; I force myself to submit to my own raging desire, and I am also the irresistable object of lust, the hot piece that my desire must posses. And none of them wear my actual body, lol!

In my whopping 36 years of experience ( ), it seems to me that everybody's fantasies (both men and women) are so very individual, their sources and the psychologial meanings each person ascribes to them so unique, that it is next to useless to speculate about any kind of commonality.

Why is it - if it is not a symptom of psychological or societal damage - that so many humans, male and female, have sexual fantasies involving dominance, submission and violence? Simply because the emotions involved - fear, anger, etc - invoke the exact same physical responses as sexual arousal. To your body, it's the same (or nearly the same) thing, and sex is all about what happens in the body, is it not? I think some of us like our sex spiced with extra helpings of those feelings in the same way as some folks like spicy foods, or get a kick out of skydiving. I also think that the presence of violent fantasy porn - and accompanying educational resources - is an excellent way of dealing with these urges, which might perhaps lead to real crimes if not diverted, or perhaps only to lives of dissatisfaction for those whose cravings go unfulfilled.

If I *were* to make rape-fantasy porn I think I would, rather than just make vids or whatever with the "she ended up enjoying it" approach, provide a behind-the-scenes look at each model and/or production. Kind of "yeah, hi, this is me and I'm gonna do this kinky scene because it turns me on and it's a fun way to make a buck." The scene itself could then either follow the classic forced-to-enjoy-it pattern or take a more brutish tone, and it would still be clear (one hopes) to the viewer that the participants are consenting.

Some folks I know would insist that this wouldn't be enough, that even those bits could be faked by an unscrupulous enough pornmeister, and I guess this is also true. But at some point the right/ability to say NO has to also mean the right/ability to say YES. Even if it's yes to making, buying, and viewing stuff that many would find distasteful.

Have I ed too much? I apologize...I've been celebrating a little, hehehe

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Cherie

But at some point the right/ability to say NO has to also mean the right/ability to say YES.

YES!

I very much look forward to the day when enough people agree that we've fought for the right to say "no" long enough and turn some of their energies to the fight for the right to say "yes" to more things. Sometimes it seems there is so much attention paid to all the variations of "No Means No" and "Just Say No" that no one is remembering/teaching/learning that "Yes Means Yes" is something of value too.

Okay, I'm back out. I just wanted to say that I'm a big believer in the right to say YES.

[karomesis]

Why is it - if it is not a symptom of psychological or societal damage - that so many humans, male and female, have sexual fantasies involving dominance, submission and violence? Simply because the emotions involved - fear, anger, etc - invoke the exact same physical responses as sexual arousal. To your body, it's the same (or nearly the same) thing, and sex is all about what happens in the body, is it not? I think some of us like our sex spiced with extra helpings of those feelings in the same way as some folks like spicy foods, or get a kick out of skydiving. I also think that the presence of violent fantasy porn - and accompanying educational resources - is an excellent way of dealing with these urges, which might perhaps lead to real crimes if not diverted, or perhaps only to lives of dissatisfaction for those whose cravings go unfulfilled.

I agree.


The fact of the matter is, individual freedom is so valuble, I would stand up for people whos ideas and desires i hate just because their freedom to choose what they wish so long as it harms no one is that important to me.

Okay, I'm back out. I just wanted to say that I'm a big believer in the right to say YES.

I am too.

I stand for absolute freedom for myself and others, it is irrelevant if I like or dislike what they choose to do, what is relevant however, is that it's none of my godamn business.

[susanna]

Originally Posted by karomesis

I stand for absolute freedom for myself and others, it is irrelevant if I like or dislike what they choose to do, what is relevant however, is that it's none of my godamn business.

I have a question for you...those people who say ABSOLUTES like you just did. Is it really appropriate to say every person has absolute freedom? What about the rules of not harming another person (without their consent)? So you are saying a rapist has the individual freedom to rape?

[karomesis]

Susanna, Did you actually read my post?

so long as it harms no one

The condition of freedom was so long as it harmed no one else.

Is it really appropriate to say every person has absolute freedom?

In the future, they will.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by susanna

So you are saying a rapist has the individual freedom to rape?

Don't be a such a sensationalist. You're smarter than that. I have testes and I know that that is not what she meant. Is it really necessary that she lists the things which she wouldn't like absolute freedom for?

1. No freedom to rape.
2. No freedom to dip cats in gasoline and set them ablaze.
3. No more than 10 items in an express lane.

[karomesis]

Is it really necessary that she lists the things which she wouldn't like absolute freedom for?

I think so Useless, from now on, I'll list them in sequential order, from least offensive to most, ending with #3 on your list.The sheer horror of it all, sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat thinking about that lady with 24 items who used change to pay.|shocking|