What do you think about these?

[emmanuelle]

'Consenting adults' is a pretty subjective term. I can't tell you how many models give their 'consent' by signing a model release before a shoot, then have the shoot take a whole new turn than they had expected, or been led to expect. By that time, the girl just tells herself that she's already started, and only a couple of hours away from the promised payout, and grits her teeth. Even by the time she signs a closing addendum, she's not going to refuse to say what they want her to, when her paycheck is still in the producer's hand.

In far too many cases, she needs that payout more than she needs her dignity and self respect. Maybe she needs to pay her rent. Maybe she needs to hand it over to her 'boyfriend' to make him happy and avoid a confrontation that night. Maybe she needs a fix (and help), maybe she needs milk for her child.

'Needing' this check constitutes a certain level of duress, or at the very minimum, pressure to perform. Very few of these young women (or men) have the inner strength to stand up and walk out the door without that money. It's easier to continue than to say no sometimes.

While I agree that as an industry we need to protect ourselves by not tolerating producers who push the envelope repeatedly; industry aside, do we not have moral and ethical responsibilities as well? What goes on between two truly consenting adults behind closed doors cannot begin to compare with the situation on a set where money, strangers and apathy are involved. Just what kind of message are we sending to society by glamourizing violence against women and men. We love to bitch about the double standards in the regulation of violence vs the regulation of porn, yet we condone and even promote it.

I will be the first to admit that I think models can be a pain in the ass, and sometimes deserve their position at the bottom of the food chain in this industry. Without them though, we are all nothing. We need our models to be treated with dignity and respect so that in turn maybe they will treat themselves with the same. This can only be good for everyone.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

'Consenting adults' is a pretty subjective term. I can't tell you how many models give their 'consent' by signing a model release before a shoot, then have the shoot take a whole new turn than they had expected, or been led to expect. ...>SNIP<... Even by the time she signs a closing addendum, she's not going to refuse to say what they want her to, when her paycheck is still in the producer's hand. ...>SNIP<...Needing' this check constitutes a certain level of duress, or at the very minimum, pressure to perform. Very few of these young women (or men) have the inner strength to stand up and walk out the door without that money.

I know that things can go that way. Just to clarify something I posted earlier in this thread, when I mentioned a document in which all parties to an upcoming "consensual non-consent" scene agree to it, I didn't mean the standard model releases that most producers use. The kind of docs I was referring to are very, very specific about what someone can expect to have happen to them, including a wide range of things that may or may not occur.

One interesting thing is that outside of the adult biz filming "extreme" scenes, many "consensual non-consent" scenes are staged at the request of the petitioner, the one who will be on the receiving end that is. They often even have their own 'terms and conditions' all listed out and ready to go. Humiliation and degradation are sometimes high on the list, even as "must haves." As some folks say, it's not their first rodeo.

(There's also a whole lifestyle built around "consensual non-consent" a.k.a. Total Power Exchange, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.)

What goes on between two truly consenting adults behind closed doors cannot begin to compare with the situation on a set where money, strangers and apathy are involved.

While I understand your point, and know that this may be the gist of the situation today, I would suggest that unless we find a way to make those two dynamics merge, we are going to have to continue to settle for porn like most of what's out there now.

Personally I'm tired of fake lesbians, fake orgasms, fake cum, and fake bondage that you could shrug out of. Or spanking scenes focusing on reddening asses instead of the interplay between players or how the reactions on the face of the spanked partner fluctuate between pain and pleasure.

Mostly, I wish porn producers would learn more about their various audiences real likes and dislikes and stop filling the net with the same boringly repetitive crap. Extreme isn't the only way to go when you want a strong reaction, but it's definitely easier than studying people and finding out where their real hot buttons are.

Damn... this is about 3x as long as I meant to say.

Oh well, too late now to do anything but stop with a